Why are we so sure??

[tamborine lady]

graemlins/type.gif

I am going to play devils advocate on this one, and you'll see why when you read the queston!

Why are we so sure that the bible, the one book we all quote so freely on this board, is ALL the scripture there is? How do we know it contains ALL of the word of God that He wants us to have?

SDA have E.G. White, Mormons have the book of Moroni, Jehovahs Witness have their own version, the New World Translation, and the Catholics have all their different books. :eek: :confused:

Then there's the Koran, etc. well you get the idea!

So how do we know OURS is the correct one???


Peace,

Tam

[StefanM]

The same way we know that ours is the correct religion--faith.

[jacob62]

Because it is the one book that is the most attacked,most misunderstood(and you know who you are),most misquoted,most widely read,and most widely distibuted.And foremost as Stefan said,faith.Plus all the prophecies that have come to pass.

[icthus]

The Evidence that the Holy Bible contains, in what ever it speaks on, is 100% correct. Every single prophecy about the Lord Jesus Christ has been fulfilled. The Book of Mormon, for exapmle is know to have many errors. The Koran is found on blood-shed, and portrays a God who is bent on revenge. It has been said that the Koran is 5% true, that is when it quotes from the Bible. BTW, the Koran actually has a higher place for Jesus Christ (Virgin Birth, Sinlessness, Second Coming, etc), that it does for their own man!

But, having said all of that, we can only know that the Holy Bible ALONE is the True Word of God, is when we meet with the Living Saviour, have our sins forgiven, and are filled with the Holy Spirit. It is He Who leads us into all Truth. It is not a head thing, but based on a Faith which can only come from God Himself

[BobRyan]

Correction - SDAs do not view Ellen White as having written scripture - or "more scritpure" or "other scripture".

"Sola scriptura" means the same 66 books everybody else is reading.

[music4Him]

Did Ellen White write prophecies?

BTW, I agree with some of what icthus exspecially on the prophcies that have been fulfilled by Jesus. I know there are other books and haven't read them. They are mentioned in the OT. Now whether they were lost or what I have no idea but they are mentioned but not a part of our bible.

[tamborine lady]

graemlins/type.gif

Bob Ryan said:Correction - SDAs do not view Ellen White as having written scripture - or "more scritpure" or "other scripture".

"Sola scriptura" means the same 66 books everybody else is reading.

Correction noted, but there are a lot of SDA who believe EGW was absolutely 100% correct, hence the tired old statement in SDA churches, "one of my favorite authors".

But back to the question. How do we know that the Apocrypha in the Catolic bible should not be included?? How do we know that some other books shouldn't be included?

How can we be sure that the guys that put together the bible we use today got it right?

Selah,

Tam

[BobRyan]

I guess my point is that there were a lot of "inspired" prophets in the NT that did not get books/letters written/included in the NT.

For example - the 4 daughters of Philip, Anna, all the women in 1Cor 14 (Corinth) that had the gift of prophecy.

They did not run around saying "well how much scripture should we add today?"

If the OP is about actual claims to scripture - going beyond the 66 -- then Philip's 4 daughters do not qualifify "just because" they were prophets nor do the women in 1Cor 14 not does Ellen White. It required something "more".

In the case of the book of Mormon -- they DO claim that it is "another Bible".

In the case of the Apocrypha - the RCC DOES claim that it is "MORE BIBLE".

The Quran (or Koran) is a claim to "another" Bible or "the REAL Bible" as they think of it.

So these are valid "alternatives" to our idea that "sola scriptura" represents just the 66 books of scripture.

Your previous post makes it sound like "if it is not error then it must be scrpture". That is not the case with Nathan speaking to David (no book of Nathan) nor of Philips daughters, or agabus or Ellen White or ...

THE TEST of a prophet's message is that it has to be doctrinally correct. But once you validate that the source is God (HE is infallible BTW) then it makes the message "inspired" but does not make it scripture (applicable to all mankind).

In Christ,

Bob

[tamborine lady]

graemlins/type.gif

But all the other people of different faiths beleive their "book" is THE word, and that they are right and all of us are wrong.

The ones that have the Bible plus some other books are quite sure we are wrong!!

So how do we know WE are correct and they are not!

Peace,

Tam

[BobRyan]

It is not as hard as you may think.

Take the book of Mormon for example. Mormon's "claim" that this is "Another bible" but look at the "story they make up" for where it came from and look at the content of the book. They take none of their doctrines from the book itself because it does not support Mormonism and in fact it condemns polygamy at a time BEFORE Joseph Smith thought of introducing it! So for "doctrine" they go to Smith's OTHER books -- books that do not teach what the book of Mormon teaches. In fact few of them even know what is in the book of Mormon outside of a few favorite chapters.

In any case - the BoM is most likely a document written by an early Amillenialist Baptist (anabaptist) Solomon Spaulding as a "Pilgrims Progress style" work of fiction based on an American Indian context. Smith got a hold of the manuscript made some small changes and added an introduction and "presto!" book of Mormon.


As for Islam's Qu'ran. Islam claims that the OT and NT texts (manuscripts) have been tampered with. BUT THEY HAVE NO evidence - no early manuscripts showing their point to be true! WIthout that key point sustained - their entire system collapses -- and it is a an obvious blunder.

Both Smith and Mohammed where Christian to start with. So it is a case of their admitting to have fallen off a more direct path to God.

So basically the problem of figuring out "the obvious failings" of some of those competitive "Bibles" is not as complex and difficult as one might think.

The Bible on the other hand is composed of reliable ancient manuscripts that provide more detail in a lot of areas than any competing source. They are always older and always composed of more historically accurate details as well as predictions.

Nothing compares to it.

In Christ,

Bob

[av1611jim]

To answer the OP;
In a word...prophecy.
Only the 66 books of the Bible as we now have it can prove to have fulfilled prophecy as its validation.
No other "religious" book has this componant.

In HIS service;
Jim

[TexasSky]

Prophecy fulfilled.
And the fact that many of the other books you reference actually contradict the word of God.
In fact, I know one Mormon Elder who now teaches that the Bible is not the infalliable word of God, and he bases his theory on the fact that the Bible disagrees with the Book of Mormon.

Then, there is the simple fact, that the bible says not to add or take away from the bible.

[Nevertheless]

Then, there is the simple fact, that the bible says not to add or take away from the bible. Not quite. The book of Revelation says not to add to or take away from the words of that prophecy. There is nothing to indicate that this was to apply to all of the books of the Bible, which at the time Revelation was written, were not even compiled!

[tamborine lady]

graemlins/type.gif

As I said in the opening post. I have played Devils advocate on this one.

I believe that the bible we have is all we need to live by. The Bible can be PROVED to work.

It has been the overall best seller for the longest of any book.

In any part of the world, when you bring in the Bible, lives change. When people accept Jesus as Savior, their lives change for the better.

Does it contain all the "scripture" there is? That I don't know for sure, but what I do know for sure is that it is all we need to live our lives for Jesus.

Working for Jesus,

Tam

[jacob62]

Originally posted by Nevertheless:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Then, there is the simple fact, that the bible says not to add or take away from the bible. Not quite. The book of Revelation says not to add to or take away from the words of that prophecy. There is nothing to indicate that this was to apply to all of the books of the Bible, which at the time Revelation was written, were not even compiled! </font>[/QUOTE]I beleive it was God who wrote the bible,and He had it compiled before it happened.And if you think you can add or take away any part of scripture,your treading on thin ice.

[TexasSky]

I always smile when I see the question of "how do we know" come up because the Bible itself, and its survival, is a miracle we take for granted.

There are 39 ancient texts that confirm or refer to events, people or various other things known in the Old Testament which were not the texts the bible itself comes from. No other historically accepted document has such supporting evidence.

No other book is written by so many different people, from different walks of life, different regions of the world, over thousands of years - and yet.. supports and confirms what is written. In one place you have a prophecy, in another you have historical recording of the fulfillment of that same prophecy.

No recorded document in history has had so many powerful enemies try to destroy it, and yet survived. Its been burned, banned, the writers or printers or distibutors put to death, and yet - IT survives.

It doesn't change. Sure, new translations come out, we obtain better understanding of what is written, but the basic message NEVER changes. Always God is the Creator, always the Alpha and Omega.

The book of Mormon changes when the prophet of their church changes. The Koran supports the old testament to a point, then splits off, and changes.

How do we know the bible is really His word? He protects it. We can't even destroy His word when we try.

[Doubting Thomas]

The book of Mormon changes when the prophet of their church changes. The Koran supports the old testament to a point, then splits off, and changes. The Jews would say that the New Testament supports the "Old Testament" to a point, then splits off, and changes as well.

[TexasSky]

Actually, I don't think that is true, Thomas.
I have discussed Christ at length with many Jews, and the thing that never ceases to amaze me is that they don't object to Christ, they just really know nothing about Him.

Often I'm told things like, "He can't be the Messiah, he is from Nazareth." (Which really stunned me. How can anyone in this country not know that Jesus was born in Bethlehem?)

When I sit down and say, "Do you believe this and this referred to the Messiah?" And then show them how Christ fulfilled those prophecies, they are usually amazed, and occasionally they come to the Lord.

[jacob62]

You might as well write a Baptist bible,a Penticostal bible,a Church of God bible etc.That way,instead of saying things no longer apply,you can either take it out or twist it to your Baptist doctrine.

[BobRyan]

The book of Mormon changes when the prophet of their church changes. The Koran supports the old testament to a point, then splits off, and changes. #1. The book of Mormon did not change much at all. (Which is a huge problem for the Mormons sinc the book of Mormon continues to deny some of their major teachings. For example it condemned polygammy BEFORE Joseph Smith thought to do it - and STILL condemns polygammy. It also continnues to condemn the idea that a person might die and then have another chance for heaven or that a person could ever be redeemed out of hell. Basically it is the anabaptist, amillenial views of Samuel Spaulding not Joseph Smith that is in the book of Mormon).

The only thing they use the BoM for is to show that Smith is divinely inspired and to argue for the fiction about Indians coming from the Hebrews. On every other point they take you to Perl of Great Price or Doctrines and Covenants to get "Joseph Smith" doctrine.

Originally posted by Doubting Thomas:

The Jews would say that the New Testament supports the "Old Testament" to a point, then splits off, and changes as well. Apples and Oranges.

The Koran seeks to "replace and rewrite" the OT making it say that Ishmael was the son of the Promise - the one sacrificed and then saved NOT Isaac.

The Christian approach is to take the Hebrew Bible "AS IS" and leave it untouched. The NT is then an ADDED text not a "replacement" or a "rewrite" of the OT.

So although some Jews might accept the NT and become Christians - they would not have to "rewrite" or "replace" the OT accounts to do it - like they would for Islam.

Islam is the only religion that takes another relgion's Bible and "rewrites it".

In Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by Nevertheless:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Then, there is the simple fact, that the bible says not to add or take away from the bible. Not quite. The book of Revelation says not to add to or take away from the words of that prophecy. There is nothing to indicate that this was to apply to all of the books of the Bible, which at the time Revelation was written, were not even compiled! </font>[/QUOTE]The Hebrew text was "compiled" and available even at the time of Christ.

the NT greek text was written AND READ by the first century NT church. If by "compiled" you mean a "codex version" that is a bound Bible you are right that the NT letters were in "letter" format - not a bound book.

Interestingly - we have manuscripts much closer to the actdual autograph dates for the NT texts -- unlike most other ancient documents.

In Christ,

Bob

[TexasSky]

Even if you ascribe to the view that Revelation's words referred ~only~ to the events recorded in Revelation - the Book of Mormon would fail the test. The Book of Mormon teaches a different ending and judgement than Revelation does.

[BobRyan]

But isn't that consistent with the Amillennial view that was dominant in the 1700's?

(Remember that premillennialism did not gain acceptance in the US until the mid 1800's).

[av1611jim]

Originally posted by Nevertheless:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Then, there is the simple fact, that the bible says not to add or take away from the bible. Not quite. The book of Revelation says not to add to or take away from the words of that prophecy. There is nothing to indicate that this was to apply to all of the books of the Bible, which at the time Revelation was written, were not even compiled! </font>[/QUOTE]Incorrect;
There are prohibitions to adding or subtracting from Scripture in Deut. and Prov. also.
Therefore we have three prohibitions in Scripture not to mess with Scripture.

Here they are;
De*4:2
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Pr*30:5
Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Pr*30:6
Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

FYI

In HIS service;
Jim

[billwald]

Right! The "Bible" is the Torah - 1st 5 books. Everything else is commentary.

[music4Him]

Originally posted by jacob62:
You might as well write a Baptist bible,a Penticostal bible,a Church of God bible etc.That way,instead of saying things no longer apply,you can either take it out or twist it to your Baptist doctrine. Jacob's smile.gif going to slap me (as other will probley want to also) graemlins/laugh.gif , but I can resist.
There is a Baptist, Pentacostal (Charsamatic),...ect bible. Most of them has KJV printed on the side. graemlins/thumbs.gif But of couse in every church some bring some books that have NIV and some got NKJV...ect on 'em. graemlins/wave.gif

Ok back to the topic. :D

Music4Him

[jacob62]

lol music4Him (jacob reaches to slap music4Him,trips over mic cord as music4Him slaps jacob with guitar)

[BobRyan]

Not quite. The book of Revelation says not to add to or take away from the words of that prophecy. There is nothing to indicate that this was to apply to all of the books of the Bible, which at the time Revelation was written, were not even compiled! The NT authors were not "Adding" to or altering any previous book of the Bible in the OT. They were writing an inspired text that is compiled along with the OT -- not changing the OT so fit their bias.

The Hebrew text is reliable.

So also the Greek text of the NT.

In Christ,

Bob

[music4Him]

graemlins/laugh.gif Sorry about that jacob I usually try to keep my mic cords rolled up and in order. smile.gif

One thing I'm sure of and that is the essentials of salvation need to be preached just like the bible lays it out.
I don't know about all the other books (Mormon, JW's, Islam....ect) but In the KJV I read warnings about if any come to you preaching another doctine or another Jesus you should leave them alone.
BTW, wasn't the Berrens(sp?) mentoined in the NT that checked everything with what the OT said to see if what they were being told lined up with the new things that they were being told? So should that be a rule for us when searching out why we are sure that we got the real deal? smile.gif

[steaver]

Both Smith and Mohammed where Christian to start with. Not really. Maybe "professing" Christian, but proved to be children of the devil.

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us". (1 John 2:19)

Once a Christian. Always a Christian! ( In the true, biblical, born-again definition of the word)

God Bless! graemlins/thumbs.gif

[Apreacher4Him]

Not having ever been anything but a Sinner, and then one saved by grace . . .

BUT, I know who I have believed and am persuaded [by faith] that He is able to
keep that which I have commited unto Him against that day!

In Hebrews it says BY FAITH we "know" not "think" "guess" or even "hope"

It says we "KNOW" by faith. For, without "faith" it is impossible...

Futhermore, His Word says, You shall "KNOW" the "TRUTH" and "the truth shall make you free"!!! And in another place Christ said: "Thy Word is Truth" and His Word again says "it is settled forever in Heaven" ... while men dicker between whether they should trust "science" or "faith" God has already declared His Word
"preserved" forever in Heaven...

He has promised His Word to His people... For the "just shall live" ONLY "by faith"
And "FAITH COMETH" ONLY "BY HEARING AND HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD"

God is not some cosmic recluse incapable of making His will known... He has given His Word to His people, manifested by sovereign miracles, and as Christ said "thus saith the Lord" "it is written" and "let Him that hath ears to hear let him hear"

It is NOT our job to PROVE GOD's EXISTENCE - That's God's Holy Spirit's Work
It is NOT our job to PROVE GOD's WORD - it is simply for us to "look and live"

Did He not say to the crowd that if they would just be

"WILLING TO DO HIS WILL" You will [Here it is again...] "KNOW" "of the doctrine, whether it BE OF GOD [i.e if it is God's Word!] or whether I speak of myself!!

So when your back is to the wall and someone doubts the Bible or trys to add to it
simply declare His Word "preach the Word" and let God's Holy Spirit convince the "willing" "unhardened heart" that such is "TRUTH"
Let all the Devil's demons shudder in fear... For if a mere "earthen vessel" can speak forth His father's Word and it come forth in power of unbreakable truth as "it shall not be broken"... Then what then shall be their fate when the promised day when the Son of God, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords speaks forth the Sword of His Spirit and Crushes the Serpents head!!


Sure men always try to "add to" and "take" away from God's Word - but in Revelation God has spoken already to their fate...

If God is able to deliver His Word, then HIS PEOPLE are sure to always have it....
Such is only the case for the 66 books of the Bible... God is not up in heaven with his settled Word saying "oh my" "oh my" how do I get them my 67th book or tell them that they have one "extra" by their own mistake.... We have a pure Word of God witnessed by Miracles, given by inspiration, revealed by God, and preserved forever for His people who without cannot walk by faith or claim the "whole counsel of God"... Away with the Heresy's of the Apocrapha that contradict the Word of God or likewise the Book of Moron and let us take by faith what God has manifestly given to His people and proven by faith, from faith to faith, that "His Word is Truth"!!

That is also why we need not go looking for better, older, "more accurate" texts of His Word! People Awake to righteousness either God gave and kept His Word for His people or He did not... Anything new cannot be His Word! His Word is Eternal and Settled, and given forever to His people!

Hope this helps..


By the way "Tamberine lady" for some reason I was led to read the posts that you started.. Many of them are very thoughtful and helpful threads, yet I fine an interesting distinction. They have a unique meekness not being dominated by your own thought processes... Not that anything one should preach should come from anything but God's Word originally... And yet I find the threads helpful and your responses faithful to your convictions yet "lady like" shall we say :) No offense.

In Sincerity and Truth,

Michael

P.S. Case in point here is a unique quote I appreciated from you:

"People who die and go to heaven do not pray for us after that. Neither does Mary, neither will the Pope.

We pray to the Father in Jesus name and Jesus intercedes for us to the Father. Anything else is false teaching and is heresy!!!

Peace,

Tam

Preach it! :) lol and yet that is the truth in Love, and unlike many posts started by others you obviously do not feel compelled to dominate every thread you start, yet you are willing to humbly stand for HIS Truth.

God bless...

[Apreacher4Him]

Tam says: The bible as we know it, the 66 books of inspired scripture, was first translated into the Latin Vulgate approximately, around 400 AD.

Then it was finally translated into english by Wycliffe about 1380, and then other versions followed etc.

My question is, . . . how did the "inspiration" come to these men who translated the bible?? If the spirit had stopped reveiling things to men,. . . how did they know which books to choose?

I'm sure I must have missed something!! Enlighten me, please!!


Humbly I write this, for my sis: Yes The Bible "as we know it" is the "Bible as given and kept by the people of God" - God has given to His people what we were to have else God failed... Yet He can do so and did Sovereignly and providentially preserving His Word in the Hands of His people apart from the "inspiration". No "re-inspiration" was necessary . . . Merely what Men did would be what "men" would do today if they wanted to translate the Bible into another language (for we are not in a position today to improve on the English Available translations -- for many reasons . . . but lest I digress) . . . What they would do is NOT "go looking" for "what books (or "words") God Has given but simply "look around them" What have God's people been given? And, what have they "spontaneously" (not of men, but of God) and "universally" (amongst all the saints of God in the Body of Christ) accepted and used as inspired of God...

Trust me, it was no harder for them in "400 AD" to "find" "which books" than it would be for you or I today ... lol It was just as self-evident - they have their criteria then, we have our criteria now... But what God has already done in giving it and what His people did when they received it was not "judged by men" but made "self-evident by God"

Hence, The perfection of God's Word and the recognition of God's Word, and Preservation of God's Word was nothing but God's Work - piece of cake...

And the "Just shall live by Faith" and "Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God"

[BobRyan]

I am going to play devils advocate on this one, and you'll see why when you read the queston!

Why are we so sure that the bible, the one book we all quote so freely on this board, is ALL the scripture there is? How do we know it contains ALL of the word of God that He wants us to have?

SDA have E.G. White, Mormons have the book of Moroni, Jehovahs Witness have their own version, the New World Translation, and the Catholics have all their different books. :eek: :confused:

Then there's the Koran, etc. well you get the idea!
So how do we know OURS is the correct one???

Peace,
Tam

Your OP makes some bad assumptions.

Mormons provide both the KJV AND the book of Mormon as "BIBLES" then they ALSO present "Pearl of Great Price" and "Doctrines and Covenants" as other inspired books but not as "Bibles" the way they do with the Book of Mormon.

The JWs pring the "NWT" New World Translation NOT AS another inspired text -- just as ANOTHER TRANSLATION -- poorly done but having ONE group do a translation is no more "evil" than the RC Duay Bible translation done by the RCC-ALONE or having the LIVING Bible done by ONE person.

SDAs have only the ONE Bible - but they publish the writings of Ellen White in book form. There are a great many OT and NT "prophets" with inspired messages from God that HAVE NOTHING passed on to us today. That does not mean they "did not exist" and it does not mean God was in the business of telling His people to IGNORE His own non-canonical prophets.

The assumption in the question above is that ALL inspired messages from all prophets in both OT and NT were always added to the Bible. We know that in fact they were not!

In Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

!Cor 14 says that we should "Desire earnestly spiritual gifst BUT ESPECIALLY that you may prophesy"

made made tradition today say "OH NO - Don't do that!"

So again - it is a choice between the Bible and man-made-tradition.

[Joseph_Botwinick]

graemlins/type.gif

I am going to play devils advocate on this one, and you'll see why when you read the queston!

Why are we so sure that the bible, the one book we all quote so freely on this board, is ALL the scripture there is? How do we know it contains ALL of the word of God that He wants us to have?

SDA have E.G. White, Mormons have the book of Moroni, Jehovahs Witness have their own version, the New World Translation, and the Catholics have all their different books. :eek: :confused:

Then there's the Koran, etc. well you get the idea!

So how do we know OURS is the correct one???


Peace,

Tam

Because of the same reason we believe that our God is the one and only true God, that there is no other way to the father except through Christ and that our Scripture is the only true one: Faith in God and his Word.

Joseph Botwinick

[Brother Bob]

I suspect the Calvinist would say we are predestined to know it. The rest of us go by FAITH.

[Apreacher4Him]

Why do people hyjack threads with off base tangentS?

Especially you ryan - this had nothing to do with "spiritual gifts" or the presence of
"prophets" for today.... So lets deal with the issue of the thread... respond to the solid facts of the last post [not off base tangents] or accept that your thoughts will be utterly disregarded by all reasonable people and in this case by me...

If you want to talk about "predestination" "spiritual gifts" the presence of "prophets" for today . . . then start another thread .... otherwise let us deal with this issue.... the issue of the thread...

Which is what is noted here below:

Tam says: The bible as we know it, the 66 books of inspired scripture, was first translated into the Latin Vulgate approximately, around 400 AD.

Then it was finally translated into english by Wycliffe about 1380, and then other versions followed etc.

My question is, . . . how did the "inspiration" come to these men who translated the bible?? If the spirit had stopped reveiling things to men,. . . how did they know which books to choose?

I'm sure I must have missed something!! Enlighten me, please!!


Humbly I write this, for my sis: Yes The Bible "as we know it" is the "Bible as given and kept by the people of God" - God has given to His people what we were to have else God failed... Yet He can do so and did Sovereignly and providentially preserving His Word in the Hands of His people apart from the "inspiration". No "re-inspiration" was necessary . . . Merely what Men did would be what "men" would do today if they wanted to translate the Bible into another language (for we are not in a position today to improve on the English Available translations -- for many reasons . . . but lest I digress) . . . What they would do is NOT "go looking" for "what books (or "words") God Has given but simply "look around them" What have God's people been given? And, what have they "spontaneously" (not of men, but of God) and "universally" (amongst all the saints of God in the Body of Christ) accepted and used as inspired of God...

Trust me, it was no harder for them in "400 AD" to "find" "which books" than it would be for you or I today ... lol It was just as self-evident - they have their criteria then, we have our criteria now... But what God has already done in giving it and what His people did when they received it was not "judged by men" but made "self-evident by God"

Hence, The perfection of God's Word and the recognition of God's Word, and Preservation of God's Word was nothing but God's Work - piece of cake...

And the "Just shall live by Faith" and "Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God"

[Jack Matthews]

I think we try really hard to answer this question with historical facts, manuscript evidence, textual criticism, language studies, and all of those things do provide a mountain of evidence which shows the Bible, and particularly the New Testament, to be the most supported document of human history, at least, from the period before the printing press made accurate reproduction possible. But even with all of that evidence, that is not why I believe that the 66 canonical books we call "The Bible" are sufficient to provide humans with the written message necessary for salvation and Christian living. I'm going to give a "divinity school" answer.

"The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man't spirit within him? In the same way, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man makes judgements about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgement:
'For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?'
But we have the mind of Christ. I Cor. 2:10b-16 NIV

This is the doctrine of illumination. Some call it the gift of discernment. The fact of the matter is that the words of scripture themselves are not, by definition "The Word of God." They were written by men who were carried along by the Spirit, according to Peter, who was one of the writers and testifies to his own experience. They testify to the Word (Logos) of God, who is Christ, according to John 1:1. The faith that we have about the Bible's sufficiency is a product of being spiritual, rather than worldly, minded. That's how we can be sure.

We also know that as long as we are in the flesh, we are not going to be perfectly spiritually minded. The end result of that is that not every believer is going to find mutual agreement on every point of scripture. True believers, however, will find agreement on salvation. The rest depends on your own submission to, and dependence on the Spirit. I never approach the study of the scripture without first praying and asking God to illumine my mind. When I have doubts, or questions, or difficulty, I stop studying and go back to praying. I guess that would be defined as faith, but it isn't a blind faith.

As a side note, that's why I am not all that hung up on the idea of translation. Translators, too, can be guided and illumined by the spirit, which is why I not only don't have a problem with most modern versions that are translations from the original languages (not the vulgate or Bishop's Bible) but I trust that they are as accurate as required for them to be sufficient.

[hill]

Because God speaks to me through His Word and does not through any of those other writings.

[tamborine lady]

:type:

Hill, you said "God speaks to me through His Word."

Tam says:
That is the crux of the matter my friend, (and the reason for the devils adcocate part).

How so we KNOW that His Word is what we have in our Bible? :smilewinkgrin:

Now the thread is finally doing what I intended it to do about 16 months ago when I first posted it! (It was supposed to provoke basic thinking). My thought is that we have the Bible, but God does still send us prophecys, and inspirations from Him even today,which still have to line up with scripture.

Thanks preacher for resurecting it.

Working for Jesus,

Tam

[BobRyan]

Did Ellen White write prophecies?


Yes -

Both the OT and the NT mention prophets with the actual gift of prophecy that are NOT canonical prophets -

Nathan in Davids time, Elisha etc -- no books written by them that are included in the Bible.

Philips daughters, and EVERYONE in 1Cor 14 "Each one has a prophecy".

The fact that someone IS a prophet - HAS the actual 1Cor 12 spiritual gift of prophecy does not make the canonical in OT or NT.

God says "IF There IS a prophet among you I WILL make Myself known to them in a dream or a vision". Numbers 6.

What passes for "gifts today" is seldom that direct.

But the question of the OP is still valid - EACH group says its views are the most accurate.

In Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Because God speaks to me through His Word and does not through any of those other writings.

That is what everyone says.

Did David say that about Nathan or was the "book of Nathan" in his Bible at the time?

[tamborine lady]

:type:

Question was; how do we know OUR bible is correct?

Have a nice day!

Tam

[Apreacher4Him]

Not having ever been anything but a Sinner, and then one saved by grace . . .

BUT, I know who I have believed and am persuaded [by faith] that He is able to
keep that which I have commited unto Him against that day!

In Hebrews it says BY FAITH we "know" not "think" "guess" or even "hope"

It says we "KNOW" by faith. For, without "faith" it is impossible...

Futhermore, His Word says, You shall "KNOW" the "TRUTH" and "the truth shall make you free"!!! And in another place Christ said: "Thy Word is Truth" and His Word again says "it is settled forever in Heaven" ... while men dicker between whether they should trust "science" or "faith" God has already declared His Word
"preserved" forever in Heaven...

He has promised His Word to His people... For the "just shall live" ONLY "by faith"
And "FAITH COMETH" ONLY "BY HEARING AND HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD"

God is not some cosmic recluse incapable of making His will known... He has given His Word to His people, manifested by sovereign miracles, and as Christ said "thus saith the Lord" "it is written" and "let Him that hath ears to hear let him hear"

It is NOT our job to PROVE GOD's EXISTENCE - That's God's Holy Spirit's Work
It is NOT our job to PROVE GOD's WORD - it is simply for us to "look and live"

Did He not say to the crowd that if they would just be

"WILLING TO DO HIS WILL" You will [Here it is again...] "KNOW" "of the doctrine, whether it BE OF GOD [i.e if it is God's Word!] or whether I speak of myself!!

So when your back is to the wall and someone doubts the Bible or trys to add to it
simply declare His Word "preach the Word" and let God's Holy Spirit convince the "willing" "unhardened heart" that such is "TRUTH"
Let all the Devil's demons shudder in fear... For if a mere "earthen vessel" can speak forth His father's Word and it come forth in power of unbreakable truth as "it shall not be broken"... Then what then shall be their fate when the promised day when the Son of God, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords speaks forth the Sword of His Spirit and Crushes the Serpents head!!


Sure men always try to "add to" and "take" away from God's Word - but in Revelation God has spoken already to their fate...

If God is able to deliver His Word, then HIS PEOPLE are sure to always have it....
Such is only the case for the 66 books of the Bible... God is not up in heaven with his settled Word saying "oh my" "oh my" how do I get them my 67th book or tell them that they have one "extra" by their own mistake.... We have a pure Word of God witnessed by Miracles, given by inspiration, revealed by God, and preserved forever for His people who without cannot walk by faith or claim the "whole counsel of God"... Away with the Heresy's of the Apocrapha that contradict the Word of God or likewise the Book of Moron and let us take by faith what God has manifestly given to His people and proven by faith, from faith to faith, that "His Word is Truth"!!

That is also why we need not go looking for better, older, "more accurate" texts of His Word! People Awake to righteousness either God gave and kept His Word for His people or He did not... Anything new cannot be His Word! His Word is Eternal and Settled, and given forever to His people!

Hope this helps..


By the way "Tamberine lady" for some reason I was led to read the posts that you started.. Many of them are very thoughtful and helpful threads, yet I fine an interesting distinction. They have a unique meekness not being dominated by your own thought processes... Not that anything one should preach should come from anything but God's Word originally... And yet I find the threads helpful and your responses faithful to your convictions yet "lady like" shall we say No offense.

In Sincerity and Truth,

Michael

P.S. Case in point here is a unique quote I appreciated from you:

"People who die and go to heaven do not pray for us after that. Neither does Mary, neither will the Pope.

We pray to the Father in Jesus name and Jesus intercedes for us to the Father. Anything else is false teaching and is heresy!!!

Peace,

Tam

Preach it! lol and yet that is the truth in Love, and unlike many posts started by others you obviously do not feel compelled to dominate every thread you start, yet you are willing to humbly stand for HIS Truth.

God bless...

[Apreacher4Him]

Hence "our" Bible is correct because of the reasons above (please read)

However "our" Bible is thus the Canonical and Preserved:


BOOKS (66 to be exact) -- But books are empty without

AND

WORDS (all that God wrote - "jot and tittle")

ONCE "INSPIRED" that is, once "accurately recorded" - God had no great
difficulty also preserving them for us - He did not wait for men to later
FIND what is His Word!!!


Away with apocrapha and extra-biblical texts

Away with "prophets" who seek to add to Scripture

Away with the "Pope" who presumes to speak "ex cathedra" as
God's would-be representative on earth when there is only
one mediator between God and man - the MAN CHRIST JESUS -
OUR ADVOCATE!!! who is our LORD ON HIGH!

AND Away with MODERN translations that diminish the value of
the precise words and which seek to "scientificaly" "come up with"
"older and better manuscripts" from which to paraphrase from for
a new translation that they will copy right!! YUCK!


POINT ME TO THE FAITH - and the source of that faith - ONCE DELIVERED
to the saints and then NEVER LOST!!!

That is a high standard that Modern "prophets" and many of the so-called
"modern translations" can not gain say against!! Amen...


The Word of God was inspired and forever preserved as it is settled
forever in Heaven...


and Tamberline it is my pleasure to resurrect such a worth thread ;)

[BobRyan]

If the question is "Bible or Koran" or "Bible or Vedas" etc - then I would argue for the supernatural affect that Christ has had on the world.

AD/BC... The 7 day week... Christianity growing immediately out of the condemnation and execution of it's founder - claiming in that same generation that he was resurrected.

There is no other book that provides a basis to account for this.

And then of course their is the leading and guiding of the Holy Spirit.

If the question is one of "manuscripts" -- the Bible is a source text having early copies within a few decades of the autographs in the case of some NT texts. It is one of the most verified documents from ancient history that we have.

In Christ,

Bob

[Taufgesinnter]

graemlins/type.gif

I am going to play devils advocate on this one, and you'll see why when you read the queston!

Why are we so sure that the bible, the one book we all quote so freely on this board, is ALL the scripture there is? How do we know it contains ALL of the word of God that He wants us to have?

SDA have E.G. White, Mormons have the book of Moroni, Jehovahs Witness have their own version, the New World Translation, and the Catholics have all their different books. :eek: :confused:

Then there's the Koran, etc. well you get the idea!

So how do we know OURS is the correct one???


Peace,

TamGood question, esp. since the early Church, when its councils decided in the fourth century which books to regard as Scripture, accepted the books of the Septuagint OT (not the 39-book canon of the unbelieving Pharisees they decided on in A.D. 90) as well as the 27 books we call the NT today. And these councils met centuries before there was a Roman Catholic Church.

{Incidentally, the Pharisees' canon actually consisted of 22 books, but we divide and count them differently today; those 22 are now counted as 39.}

[orthodox]

:type:

Question was; how do we know OUR bible is correct?



If you're a protestant, you don't know because you don't accept the authority of tradition in the Church to determine the canon. Thus you may have too many books, or too few books. You'll never know for sure till you acknowledge that the Holy Spirit guides his Church and has done in all ages.

[BobRyan]

If you're a protestant, you don't know because you don't accept the authority of tradition in the Church to determine the canon. Thus you may have too many books, or too few books. You'll never know for sure till you acknowledge that the Holy Spirit guides his Church and has done in all ages.

The saints of the first century - reading the letters of the Apostles - as they became available and reading the OT "scriptures" did not have to "Wait" for the RCC to come into existence before reading God's Word.

That has never been the case in all of time.

In Christ,

Bob

[orthodox]

The saints of the first century - reading the letters of the Apostles - as they became available and reading the OT "scriptures" did not have to "Wait" for the RCC to come into existence before reading God's Word.

That has never been the case in all of time.



As an Orthodox Christian, I agree that we don't need the RCC to determine the canon.

[Inquiring Mind]

The saints of the first century - reading the letters of the Apostles - as they became available and reading the OT "scriptures" did not have to "Wait" for the RCC to come into existence before reading God's Word.

That has never been the case in all of time.

In Christ,

BobTrue

but those apostles also had letters that never made the cut. There were nearly over 100 letters and gospels in circulation at the time. The Saints of the first century were reading everything that was put into circulation even what is now considered the gnostic gospels.

We know by the writings of the early church leaders, early church theologians, etc that up until the time the official canon was established there were varying degrees of opinions of what was considered inspired and what was not inspired. There was never a unamious concensus until the councils of the 4th century.

Even after the Canon was established, there were arguments as to what belonged and did not belong.

Tell the whole truth Bob, not just the part that suits you.

[BobRyan]

...but those apostles also had letters that never made the cut.

Did make it to scripture does not equal "did not make it to church" or "was not inspired writing" or "not supposed to be read".

In 1 Cor 14 Paul says "EACH ONE has a revelation" speaking of the prophets in church. They did not close their ears refusing to hear them until they found out that NONE were going to make it into scripture.

In Christ,

Bob

[Apreacher4Him]

Tam says: The bible as we know it, the 66 books of inspired scripture, was first translated into the Latin Vulgate approximately, around 400 AD.

Then it was finally translated into english by Wycliffe about 1380, and then other versions followed etc.

My question is, . . . how did the "inspiration" come to these men who translated the bible?? If the spirit had stopped reveiling things to men,. . . how did they know which books to choose?

I'm sure I must have missed something!! Enlighten me, please!!


Humbly I write this, for my sis: Yes The Bible "as we know it" is the "Bible as given and kept by the people of God" - God has given to His people what we were to have else God failed... Yet He can do so and did Sovereignly and providentially preserving His Word in the Hands of His people apart from the "inspiration". No "re-inspiration" was necessary . . . Merely what Men did would be what "men" would do today if they wanted to translate the Bible into another language (for we are not in a position today to improve on the English Available translations -- for many reasons . . . but lest I digress) . . . What they would do is NOT "go looking" for "what books (or "words") God Has given but simply "look around them" What have God's people been given? And, what have they "spontaneously" (not of men, but of God) and "universally" (amongst all the saints of God in the Body of Christ) accepted and used as inspired of God...

Trust me, it was no harder for them in "400 AD" to "find" "which books" than it would be for you or I today ... lol It was just as self-evident - they have their criteria then, we have our criteria now... But what God has already done in giving it and what His people did when they received it was not "judged by men" but made "self-evident by God"

Hence, The perfection of God's Word and the recognition of God's Word, and Preservation of God's Word was nothing but God's Work - piece of cake...

And the "Just shall live by Faith" and "Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God"

[Apreacher4Him]

Hence "our" Bible is correct because of the reasons stated by many men & women of faith above (please read them)

However "our" Bible is thus the Canonical and Preserved:


BOOKS (66 to be exact) -- But books are empty without

AND

WORDS (all that God wrote - "jot and tittle")

ONCE "INSPIRED" that is, once "accurately recorded" - God had no great
difficulty also preserving them for us - He did not wait for men to later
FIND what is His Word!!!


Away with apocrapha and extra-biblical texts

Away with "prophets" who seek to add to Scripture

Away with the "Pope" who presumes to speak "ex cathedra" as
God's would-be representative on earth when there is only
one mediator between God and man - the MAN CHRIST JESUS -
OUR ADVOCATE!!! who is our LORD ON HIGH!

AND Away with MODERN translations that diminish the value of
the precise words and which seek to "scientificaly" "come up with"
"older and better manuscripts" from which to paraphrase from for
a new translation that they will copy right!! YUCK!


POINT ME TO THE FAITH - and the source of that faith - ONCE DELIVERED
to the saints and then NEVER LOST!!!

That is a high standard that Modern "prophets" and many of the so-called
"modern translations" can not gain say against!! Amen...


The Word of God was inspired and forever preserved as it is settled
forever in Heaven...

[Inquiring Mind]

ah, we got a KJV ONLY nut here:

Did you know that until 1827, the KJV contained the apocrypha?

Did you know that the American Bible Sociiety agreed to produce low cost Bibles if they were allowed not to include the Apocrypha?

Did you know that the American Bible Society recognized that RCC and EOC dolllars sit in the Bank just as productively as Dollars from other people?

Did you know the only reason the Aprocrypha was left out of Bibles after 1827 is that Satan said so?

[Apreacher4Him]

Jesus loves me this I know for the Bible tells me so!

And that Bible is worth defending against Catholics or any others that would attack its inspiration, authority, or infallibility -- or in your case Add to it...

And yes the K.J.V happens to be the best ENGLISH translation in the world, but it was only good because of the inspired, authoritative, and infallible Word of God preserved for God's people... People in other languages (in most cases) have to do with lesser quality works of translations, efforts of single men etc. but lest I digress the Word of God is quick and powerful and sharper than any two edged sword only because we have it Today Amen!

Tam says: The bible as we know it, the 66 books of inspired scripture, was first translated into the Latin Vulgate approximately, around 400 AD.

Then it was finally translated into english by Wycliffe about 1380, and then other versions followed etc.

My question is, . . . how did the "inspiration" come to these men who translated the bible?? If the spirit had stopped reveiling things to men,. . . how did they know which books to choose?

I'm sure I must have missed something!! Enlighten me, please!!


Humbly I write this, for my sis: Yes The Bible "as we know it" is the "Bible as given and kept by the people of God" - God has given to His people what we were to have else God failed... Yet He can do so and did Sovereignly and providentially preserving His Word in the Hands of His people apart from the "inspiration". No "re-inspiration" was necessary . . . Merely what Men did would be what "men" would do today if they wanted to translate the Bible into another language (for we are not in a position today to improve on the English Available translations -- for many reasons . . . but lest I digress) . . . What they would do is NOT "go looking" for "what books (or "words") God Has given but simply "look around them" What have God's people been given? And, what have they "spontaneously" (not of men, but of God) and "universally" (amongst all the saints of God in the Body of Christ) accepted and used as inspired of God...

Trust me, it was no harder for them in "400 AD" to "find" "which books" than it would be for you or I today ... lol It was just as self-evident - they have their criteria then, we have our criteria now... But what God has already done in giving it and what His people did when they received it was not "judged by men" but made "self-evident by God"

Hence, The perfection of God's Word and the recognition of God's Word, and Preservation of God's Word was nothing but God's Work - piece of cake...

And the "Just shall live by Faith" and "Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God"



Furthermore...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hence "our" Bible is correct because of the reasons stated by many men & women of faith above (please read them)

However "our" Bible is thus the Canonical and Preserved:


BOOKS (66 to be exact) -- But books are empty without

AND

WORDS (all that God wrote - "jot and tittle")

ONCE "INSPIRED" that is, once "accurately recorded" - God had no great
difficulty also preserving them for us - He did not wait for men to later
FIND what is His Word!!!


Away with apocrapha and extra-biblical texts

Away with "prophets" who seek to add to Scripture

Away with the "Pope" who presumes to speak "ex cathedra" as
God's would-be representative on earth when there is only
one mediator between God and man - the MAN CHRIST JESUS -
OUR ADVOCATE!!! who is our LORD ON HIGH!

AND Away with MODERN translations that diminish the value of
the precise words and which seek to "scientificaly" "come up with"
"older and better manuscripts" from which to paraphrase from for
a new translation that they will copy right!! YUCK!


POINT ME TO THE FAITH - and the source of that faith - ONCE DELIVERED
to the saints and then NEVER LOST!!!

That is a high standard that Modern "prophets" and many of the so-called
"modern translations" can not gain say against!! Amen...


The Word of God was inspired and forever preserved as it is settled
forever in Heaven...

If you want to doubt we have it fine - but truth is God gave it! God preserved it!
I have it! Amen! - let God be true and every man or if so be "inquirers" a liar...

In Sincerity and Truth,

Apreacher4Him

[Apreacher4Him]

Not having ever been anything but a Sinner, and then one saved by grace . . .

BUT, I know who I have believed and am persuaded [by faith] that He is able to
keep that which I have commited unto Him against that day!

In Hebrews it says BY FAITH we "know" not "think" "guess" or even "hope"

It says we "KNOW" by faith. For, without "faith" it is impossible...

Futhermore, His Word says, You shall "KNOW" the "TRUTH" and "the truth shall make you free"!!! And in another place Christ said: "Thy Word is Truth" and His Word again says "it is settled forever in Heaven" ... while men dicker between whether they should trust "science" or "faith" God has already declared His Word
"preserved" forever in Heaven...

He has promised His Word to His people... For the "just shall live" ONLY "by faith"
And "FAITH COMETH" ONLY "BY HEARING AND HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD"

God is not some cosmic recluse incapable of making His will known... He has given His Word to His people, manifested by sovereign miracles, and as Christ said "thus saith the Lord" "it is written" and "let Him that hath ears to hear let him hear"

It is NOT our job to PROVE GOD's EXISTENCE - That's God's Holy Spirit's Work
It is NOT our job to PROVE GOD's WORD - it is simply for us to "look and live"

Did He not say to the crowd that if they would just be

"WILLING TO DO HIS WILL" You will [Here it is again...] "KNOW" "of the doctrine, whether it BE OF GOD [i.e if it is God's Word!] or whether I speak of myself!!

So when your back is to the wall and someone doubts the Bible or trys to add to it
simply declare His Word "preach the Word" and let God's Holy Spirit convince the "willing" "unhardened heart" that such is "TRUTH"
Let all the Devil's demons shudder in fear... For if a mere "earthen vessel" can speak forth His father's Word and it come forth in power of unbreakable truth as "it shall not be broken"... Then what then shall be their fate when the promised day when the Son of God, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords speaks forth the Sword of His Spirit and Crushes the Serpents head!!


Sure men always try to "add to" and "take" away from God's Word - but in Revelation God has spoken already to their fate...

If God is able to deliver His Word, then HIS PEOPLE are sure to always have it....
Such is only the case for the 66 books of the Bible... God is not up in heaven with his settled Word saying "oh my" "oh my" how do I get them my 67th book or tell them that they have one "extra" by their own mistake.... We have a pure Word of God witnessed by Miracles, given by inspiration, revealed by God, and preserved forever for His people who without cannot walk by faith or claim the "whole counsel of God"... Away with the Heresy's of the Apocrapha that contradict the Word of God or likewise the Book of Moron and let us take by faith what God has manifestly given to His people and proven by faith, from faith to faith, that "His Word is Truth"!!

That is also why we need not go looking for better, older, "more accurate" texts of His Word! People Awake to righteousness either God gave and kept His Word for His people or He did not... Anything new cannot be His Word! His Word is Eternal and Settled, and given forever to His people!

Hope this helps..


By the way "Tamberine lady" for some reason I was led to read the posts that you started.. Many of them are very thoughtful and helpful threads, yet I fine an interesting distinction. They have a unique meekness not being dominated by your own thought processes... Not that anything one should preach should come from anything but God's Word originally... And yet I find the threads helpful and your responses faithful to your convictions yet "lady like" shall we say No offense.

In Sincerity and Truth,

Michael

P.S. Case in point here is a unique quote I appreciated from you:

"People who die and go to heaven do not pray for us after that. Neither does Mary, neither will the Pope.

We pray to the Father in Jesus name and Jesus intercedes for us to the Father. Anything else is false teaching and is heresy!!!

Peace,

Tam

Preach it! lol and yet that is the truth in Love, and unlike many posts started by others you obviously do not feel compelled to dominate every thread you start, yet you are willing to humbly stand for HIS Truth.

God bless...

[Apreacher4Him]

Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God...

God's name is on the line if His Word fails us for He has exalted His Word
above His name because it is by His Word that His Name is made known!

His preservation is promised and sure for his Name is the Lord God!

Not one Word shall fail us...

Please consider the thoughts above I believe the Lord gave them to me to encourage me concerning the Scriptures and my faith...

May your faith be strengthened as well...

[Apreacher4Him]

Amen. :)

P.S. - Tamberline... I have cleared out some of my inbox...

May men recognize the preserved Word of God as Inspired of God instead of
trying to "produce it" or "find it" or "improve it" by some liberal, faithless "critical text"...

May God's people recognize what God has alway left them with and not doubt, nothing wavering....

[BobRyan]

To resolve the issue of the OP we have to "start with something".

Does the OP question presume that Christ is the Son of God, the gospel is correct and then asks "are the 66 books really the Bible" that goes with that religion?

OR is the OP about the idea "how do we know whether Christianity is true - or if it is Hinduism, Budhism, Islam...".

We need a starting point.

in Christ,

Bob

[tamborine lady]

:type:

The origional post was meant to get people to think. We believe that all 66 books of the bible are the word of God. and there is no question about it.

But other religions believe "their" way is the right way. They believe as strongly as we do.

How do we know our way is yhe right way?

Working for Jesus,

Tam

[BobRyan]

But as I stated -- the 66 books have a number of contexts.

#1. Those who say God never said anything to anyone outside of the 66 books of scripture no matter what 1Cor 14 says to the contrary.

#2. Those who claim that the 66 are correct but that God has an additional "Bible"

Apocrypha -
Book of Mormon -

#3. Those who accept the 66 as being "ALL of scripture" and claim that as 1Cor 14 states God also has spoken to prophets who did NOT write scripture --

Agabus, Nathan, Anna, Deborah, Ellen White...

#4. Those who think some other book is correct and the 66 books of scripture are false --

Koran -
Hinduism -
Budhism

[BobRyan]

I just came back from a city in India where the population has a high concentration of Muslims (Old Hyderabad) and of course a high percent of Hindu's in modern Hyderabad and Secundrabad.

Asking the Adventists there how they do evangelism I found that they have two means.

#1. They have a large mission school program for Muslim children. (Muslims prefer to send their children to Christian private schools vs Hindu schools because Hindus have many gods).

And of course the no-pork, non-zionist and no alcohol belief of SDA's probably build an additional bridge there.



#2. In evangelistic outreach programs Hindus are the ones that primarily attend and are baptized. But Hindus do not come into the church "until they see prayer that works" according to the Pastor.

That was a pretty interesting "test" of the OP idea in my view.

in Christ,

Bob