IS IT IN THE BIBLE??

[tamborine lady]

graemlins/type.gif

I have wondered about this for a long time, and now that this attack has happened in London, I have to ask.

Is there anywhere in the Bible where it mentions a time like this, where we don't know who the enemy is until it's too late?

Always in times past when a war broke out, the enemy wore a uniform, we wore a uniform, so you could pretty much know who was who.

Now, the terrorists blend in with the population and attack without warning, and still no one knows who they are!!

I will admit, I don't know the answer to this question. I just wonder if maybe somewhere in the Bible there is reference to times like these. I'm pretty sure it's there I just don't know where to look!!

Looking forward to all your answers.

Tam

[StefanM]

Terrorism really isn't new. Only the methods are new. Thousands of years ago some people poisoned wells, etc. to kill the civilian population.

[bmerr]

TL,

bmerr here. Our world in general is in the condition it's in because people have forsaken God. Romans 1:18-32 describes to a "T" the mass of humanity that decides they don't need God.

The terrorists you mentioned could be found several times in vv. 29-31 in terms like, "being filled with all unrighteousness", "covetousness", "maliciousness", "full of...murder", "deceit", "inventors of evil things", "without understanding", "without natural affection", "unmerciful".

Obviously these terms describe more than just Islamofacist terrorists, but they fit the bill pretty well, too. I'm sure there are other passages that could describe the "peaceful Islamists" as well, but Rom 1 came to mind first.

In Christ,

bmerr

[prophecynut]

The unknown enemy within sovereign nations are usually "foreigners" whether citizens or not.

As posted in a different thread, there is a reference to foreigners being sent to USA for the purpose for selecting targets for destruction (Jer. 51:2). During the coming invasion of America foreigners will fall victim to the sword (50:37), those who escape the sword will "flee to (their) own land" (50:16).

The foreigners who want to destroy America are mostly Muslims from various nations, specifically the Iranians (51:11; 28). The foreigners here during the invasion and those who escape the sword and return to their native land are from all the nations.

All this will happen before its "too late" to retaliate, that day of destruction will come like a thief in the night, "suddenly" like a "trap" (Jer. 50:24; Lk. 21:34; 1 Thess. 5:2-3).

England and Israel will experience the same.

[BobRyan]

I don't see this specific issue with Islam and the civilized world in the Bible for the 21st century.

There is something in Revelation about the Ottoman empire having dominion for 5 months (day for a year = 150 years) in which they ran over Turkey, Greece, India and were a pain in the neck to the west.

But nothing they have done in recent centuries even BEGINS to compare to what they were doing during the bloody years of the Ottoman empire.

Basically on the scale of world history - they have not done anything worthy of note yet.

The 10's of millions slaughtered by the Catholic church during the dark ages, the millions enslaved by the Ottoman Empire for many decades the rise of America as the world's single superpower etc - all that you might expect to find as "noteworthy".

In Christ,

Bob

[prophecynut]

Noteworthy yes, since saints will be martyred again by the Catholic church during the Tribulation. The Ottoman empire is historical and cannot fulfill any prophecy in Jeremiah or Revelation. No further discussion.

[billwald]

Judas I. was a terrorist.

[mioque]

Originally posted by prophecynut:
The unknown enemy within sovereign nations are usually "foreigners" whether citizens or not.

Indeed.
There is ofcourse the irony that in a few cases the foreigners have existed in the same spot longer than the sovereign nation they are terrorizing. Basques in Spain, Irish in the days that the whole of Ireland was part of the U.K. and Indians in the USA.

[tamborine lady]

graemlins/type.gif

Thanks for all the good comments. I guess it seems worse now than it did when you read about it in the Bible. The old testament had a lot of sneaky people.

There weren't near as many people back then, so it must have seemed the same as it does to us now. But the world has around 6 billion people and with communications being what they are it just compacts everything.

And just a word about the terrorists. Thinking about the USA, when the settlers came in and took it away from the Indians, who were the bad guys again??

(I'm part Commanche Indian, so I am probably predudiced)

Thanks again,

Tam

[Rachel]

Tamborine lady posted
And just a word about the terrorists. Thinking about the USA, when the settlers came in and took it away from the Indians, who were the bad guys again??

That's what I would like to know. :confused: Did I read that wrong??

[prophecynut]

The bad guys were the white guys.

Quotation:
-- "The destruction of the Indians of the Americas was, far and away, the most massive act of genocide in the history of the world." David E. Stannard. 4
-- "This violent corruption needn't define us.... We can say, yes, this happened, and we are ashamed. We repudiate the greed. We recognize and condemn the evil. And we see how the harm has been perpetuated. But, five hundred years later, we intend to mean something else in the world." Barry Lopez. 3
-- "By then [1891] the native population had been reduced to 2.5% of its original numbers and 97.5% of the aboriginal land base had been expropriated....Hundreds upon hundreds of native tribes with unique languages, learning, customs, and cultures had simply been erased from the face of the earth, most often without even the pretense of justice or law." Peter Montague 1

Overview:

The population of North America prior to the first sustained European contact in 1492 CE is a matter of active debate. Various estimates of the pre-contact Native population of the continental U.S. and Canada range from 1.8 to over 12 million. 4 Over the next four centuries, their numbers were reduced to about 237,000 as Natives were almost wiped out. Author Carmen Bernand estimates that the Native population of what is now Mexico was reduced from 30 million to only 3 million over four decades. 13 Peter Montague estimates that Europeans once ruled over 100 million Natives throughout the Americas.

European persecution of Natives started with Christopher Columbus' arrival in San Salvador in 1492. Native population dropped dramatically over the next few decades. Some were directly exterminated by Europeans. Others died indirectly as a result of contact with introduced diseases for which they had no resistance -- mainly smallpox, influenza, and measles.

Later European Christian invaders systematically murdered additional Aboriginal people, from the Canadian Arctic to South America. They used warfare, death marches, forced relocation to barren lands, destruction of their main food supply -- the Buffalo -- and poisoning. Oppression continued into the 20th century, through actions by governments and religious organizations which systematically destroyed Native culture and religious heritage. One present-day byproduct of this oppression is suicide. Today, Canadian Natives have the highest suicide rate of any identifiable population group in the world.

The genocide against American Natives was one of the most massive, and longest lasting genocidal campaigns in human history. It started, like all genocides, with the oppressor treating the victims as sub-humans. It continued until almost all Natives were wiped of the face of the earth, along with much of their language, culture and religion.

We believe that:
-- Only the mass murder of European Jews by Christians from 306 to 1945 CE was of longer duration.
--Only the mass murder by the government of the USSR of about 41 million of its citizens (1917 to 1987), and by the government of China of about 35 million of its citizens (1949 to 1987) may have involved greater loss of life.

The following essay contains only a small sampling of the horrendous atrocities inflicted on Natives by Europeans.


Christopher Columbus and other Spaniards:

"Christopher Columbus has been a genuine American hero since at least 1792 when the Society of St. Tammany in New York City first held a dinner to honor the man and his deeds." Columbus Day has been celebrated as a national holiday since 1934 in honor of this dedicated and courageous explorer. Unfortunately, his character had a dark side.

Columbus described the Arawaks -- the Native people in the West Indies -- as timid, artless, free, and generous. He rewarded them with death and slavery. For his second voyage to the Americas, "Columbus took the title 'Admiral of the Ocean Sea' and proceeded to unleash a reign of terror unlike anything seen before or since. When he was finished, eight million Arawaks -- virtually the entire native population of Hispaniola -- had been exterminated by torture, murder, forced labor, starvation, disease and despair." 1 A Spanish missionary, Bartolome de las Casas, described eye-witness accounts of mass murder, torture and rape. 2 Author Barry Lopez, summarizing Las Casas' report wrote: "One day, in front of Las Casas, the Spanish dismembered, beheaded, or raped 3000 people. 'Such inhumanities and barbarisms were committed in my sight,' he says, 'as no age can parallel....' The Spanish cut off the legs of children who ran from them. They poured people full of boiling soap. They made bets as to who, with one sweep of his sword, could cut a person in half. They loosed dogs that 'devoured an Indian like a hog, at first sight, in less than a moment.' They used nursing infants for dog food." 3 The Spaniards eventually went on to conquer Mexico and the southern U.S.


The British:

The British occupied areas from Virginia northward. Hans Koning wrote: "From the beginning, the Spaniards saw the native Americans as natural slaves, beasts of burden, part of the loot. When working them to death was more economical than treating them somewhat humanely, they worked them to death. The English, on the other hand, had no use for the native peoples. They saw them as devil worshippers, savages who were beyond salvation by the church, and exterminating them increasingly became accepted policy." 5 David E. Stannard wrote: "Hundreds of Indians were killed in skirmish after skirmish. Other hundreds were killed in successful plots of mass poisoning. They were hunted down by dogs, 'blood-Hounds to draw after them, and Mastives [mastiffs] to seize them.' Their canoes and fishing weirs were smashed, their villages and agricultural fields burned to the ground. Indian peace offers were accepted by the English only until their prisoners were returned; then, having lulled the natives into false security, the colonists returned to the attack. It was the colonists' expressed desire that the Indians be exterminated, rooted 'out from being longer a people upon the face of the earth.' In a single raid the settlers destroyed corn sufficient to feed four thousand people for a year. Starvation and the massacre of non-combatants was becoming the preferred British approach to dealing with the natives." 4


The Americans:

In the early 18th century, the states of Massachusetts, Connecticut, and New Jersey promoted a genocide of their local Natives by imposing a "scalp bounty" on dead Indians. "In 1703, Massachusetts paid 12 pounds for an Indian scalp. By 1723 the price had soared to 100 pounds." 10 Ward Churchill wrote: "Indeed, in many areas it [murdering Indians] became an outright business." 6 This practice of paying a bounty for Indian scalps continued into the 19th century before the public put an end to the practice. 10

In the 18th century, George Washington compared them to wolves, "beasts of prey" and called for their total destruction. 4 In 1814, Andrew Jackson "supervised the mutilation of 800 or more Creek Indian corpses" that his troops had killed. 6

Extermination of all of the surviving natives was urged by the Governor of California officially in 1851. 4 An editorial from the Rocky Mountain News in Denver, CO in 1863; and from the Santa Fe New Mexican in 1863 expressed the same sentiment. 6 In 1867, General William Tecumseh Sherman said, "We must act with vindictive earnestness against the Sioux [Lakotas] even to their extermination: men, women and children." 6

In 1848, before the gold rush in California, that state's native population is estimated to have been 150,000. In 1870, after the gold rush, only about 31,000 were still alive. "Over 60 percent of these indigenous people died from disease introduced by hundreds of thousands of so-called 49ers. However, local tribes were also systematically chased off their lands, marched to missions and reservations, enslaved and brutally massacred." 12 The price paid for a native scalp had dropped as low as $0.25. Native historian, Jack Forbes, wrote: "The bulk of California's Indians were conquered, and died, in innumerable little episodes rather than in large campaigns. it serves to indict not a group of cruel leaders, or a few squads of rough soldiers, but in effect, an entire people; for ...the conquest of the Native Californian was above all else a popular, mass, enterprise." 11

[CYBERDOVE]

prophecynut, where did you get this information from? I would like to take a look a it. Thanks

[rsr]

Prophecynut's source is:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/genocide5.htm

While I am generally sympathetic to the thrust of the argument, the essay does leave out some factors that should be considered, and it entirely omits (because it's a polemical article) many other elements.

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by prophecynut:
The bad guys were the white guys.
Thank you, Brother Prophecynut.

Toward the American Indians we have
fulfilled this prophecy of Hosea:

Hos 8:7 For they haue sowen the winde,
and they shall reape the whirlewinde:

Today the USofA spends more money on
losses to Indians and welfare to Indains
than THE USofA was WORTH in 1776.

[Dave]

Certainly there is much shame to be born by this nation for the treatment of the native population.

A nation which so enjoyed the blessings of God throughout its formative years, should have been concerned with evangelizing the indiginous population, not exterminating them.

[prophecynut]

I'll let you by on Hos 8:7, I don't want you to think I'm picking on you.

Buffalo almost became instinct from the senseless slaughtering by us white folks. Befitting of Habakkuk prophecy: "your destruction of animals will terrify you" (3:17).

[Claudia_T]

The Bible does say that right before the second coming of Christ "nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom"

Matthew 24
3: And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4: And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5: For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6: And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7: For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8: All these are the beginning of sorrows.

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Claudia_T:
The Bible does say that right before the second coming of Christ "nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom"That's been an earthly constant since there have been kingdoms and nations. From an objective view, there aren't any more of them at odds today then there were in Moses' or Jesus' time.

Sidenote: When scripture typically talks about "nations", it often referrs to a clan of people, such as the "Nation of Israel" and such. The politics of the ancient world was quite different than that of today.

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Claudia_T:
The Bible does say that right before the second coming of Christ "nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom"That's been an earthly constant since there have been kingdoms and nations. ... </font>[/QUOTE]Amen, Brother -- Preach it!

----------------------------
In Matthew 24:3 the disciples of Jesus
ask three questions:

(in the order asked):
1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
2. What is the sign of His coming?
3. What is the sign of the end of age?

Jesus answers these questions in
Matthew 24:4-44, then follows them with
some parables.

Here are the answers of Jesus in the
order the questions were asked:

1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
Matthew 24:4-14

2. What is the sign of His coming?
Matthew 24:15-30

3. What is the sign of the end of age?
Matthew 24:31-44

Here is a summary of the answers
in the order in which events will occur:

1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
Soon, it was in 70AD

3. What is the sign of the end of age?
No signs preceeding the end of the age

2. What is the sign of His coming?
The Sign of His coming will be the
Tribulation period.

Recall the Greek language in which this
Mount Olivet Discourse (MOD) was written
did not have Microsoft Word to do it with.
So many ands, buts, and other connectors
give the outline. I believe the major
outline to be:

1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
Matthew 24:4-14

2. What is the sign of His coming?
Matthew 24:15-30

3. What is the sign of the end of age?
Matthew 24:31-44

The Gathering in Matthew 24:31 is the
Rapture/resurrection which ends the
current church age (gentile age, age of grace,
last days, etc.)

Thus Matthew 24:4-14 describes all of the
church age even up to this time.
Matthew 24:4-14 describes the church age.
The signs of Matthew 24:4-14 are signs
that the church age continues.

[yeshua4me2]

i realize America did do bad things to "indian" nations. i live (and my wife works for) the Commanche naiton, and i know many Commanche, and Kiowa citizens. to say that Americans (the individuals) did this is wrong. the Government did this (for the most part in secret)and at the time it occured the majority of the population(outside the Fed Gov't and "in the know") were against this sort of genocide (though many had been brainwashed by darwins teaching that they were less evolved than us)

and i agree with Ed......they own casinos where i live and boy does the "white man" give back to them now.

i can't speak to the truth of this but i read somewhere (a magazine i think) that the majority of the land taken by the colonists (not discoverers or explorers or conquistidors) was gotten in "un"-fair trade....like trading glass and copper for land. (these things had no value for the colonists....the "indians" held copper to be like gold.

i not saying anything is right, just an interesting thread.

thankyou and God Bless

[Bob]

Very few "new" things are happening; we have had war, famine, plague, (AIDS) and terrorism since day-one. What I look at is how fast things are happening today. Just a few dozen decades ago, we could travel around on the earth no faster than we did in the days of Abraham. Before the first Chinese mortars and cannons were made, relatively recently, the cross bow was still the most tenacious hand held weapon around. Just recently have spaceships, computers, and cell phones become a part of everyday life. And prior to communications sattilites and atomic weapons, many of the End-Time Bible prophesies could not have happened. And now we are having global warming, which is definitely predicted in the Scripture.
I would like to hear other opinions on this subject.

[tamborine lady]

graemlins/type.gif

Hi Bob,

I do think that the scripture in Daniel that says knowledge will increase is being fulfilled in our time. There are people of course that say that scripture means something else, but I think it is a direct reference to our time!!

Dan 12-4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Selah,

Tam

[TexasSky]

I am not registered with the reservation, but I could. I just choose not to.

That up front -

I think we are both the bad guys.

Certain white men wanted to live in peace, certain indians wanted to live in peace.
Certain white men wanted to grab all they could, no matter what the cost.
Certain indians wanted to grab all they could, not matter what the cost.

The peace treaties were broken by both sides.

[prophecynut]

Claudia_T
The Bible does say that right before the second coming of Christ "nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom"
Mt. 24 concerns the Tribulation and not now during the Church Age.


Amen, Brother Johnv--Preach it!



Tammy
Dan 12-4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
The "time of the end" pertains to the Tribulation of 3.5 years or "a time, times and half a time" (vs. 6-9).

[tamborine lady]

graemlins/type.gif

PN: Since I don't buy into the "7 years trib" bit, I must say that the 3 1/2 years thing doesn't wash.

There will be more tribulation before it's over, but not any amount of time that one can put a time on.

"No man knows the day nor the hour, nor the seasons."

So we can't put any time frame on it, because we will not know!!

Peace,

Tam

[rsr]

yeshua said:

" ... to say that Americans (the individuals) did this is wrong. the Government did this (for the most part in secret)and at the time it occured the majority of the population(outside the Fed Gov't and 'in the know') were against this sort of genocide (though many had been brainwashed by darwins teaching that they were less evolved than us) ... "

I think that radically understates the limits of the culpability. In many cases, demand for removal were from the local population and state governments (some of whom outlawed whites settling on Indian land to prevent missionaries from taking up residence.) The Comanches had no more determined foe than the Texas Rangers.

Policy toward the Native Americans was hardly a secret. Some American spoke up against it; most did not.

As to the effect of racism, Henry Clay's "The Indians' disappearance from the human family will be no great loss to the world. I do not think them, as a race, worth preserving." came long before Darwin. It was endemic from early in the time of European settlement.

As to "unfair" trades: The Native Americans had a radically different idea of land tenure than Europeans. No one could "own" the land anymore than someone could "own" the Milky Way.

[prophecynut]

20 years ago I established a time frame for the last 3.5 years, eventually most Christians will accept it, but obviously there will be those unable to acknowledge the truth. Only after all the prophetic pieces are assembled in book form will it finally sink in for the majority.

[rsr]

"Only after all the prophetic pieces are assembled in book form will it finally sink in for the majority."

Been done, prophecynut. Been done — done to death.

[prophecynut]

Absolutely has not been done, wait patiently and it will be.

[KenH]

Originally posted by prophecynut:
20 years ago I established a time frame for the last 3.5 years, eventually most Christians will accept it It's better if Christians accept the Bible alone.

[Ed Edwards]

The end of Daniel 27 clearly sets up two each ½-of-7-years
periods - each 3½-years long. Revelation mentions
five different subjects for 3½-years (time, times, and
half a time), OR 42 months, OR 1260 days. I think also
i remember a 1260 days period in Daniel 12 as well, maybe
Daniel 11. To say these are all the same is probably
missing out on something for Daniel 9 speaks of two
halfs of a 7-year period.

Or, as i said earlier:
-------------------------------------
I will show IT IS WRITTEN:
The Anti-messiah shall reign for 7-years,
the Tribulation period.
The rapture (caught up) will follow a resurrection.
The rapture/resurrection will occur without
previous notice and before the Tribulation period
(wrath).
The rapture (caught up)/resurrection (gathering)
is at the beginning of the Tribulation period
(time of the Anti-messiah)

The Anti-messiah shall reign for 7-years,
the Tribulation period. FOR IT IS WRITTEN
in Daniel 9:26-27 (nKJV):

"And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah
shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to
come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations
are determined.
27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with
many for one week; But in the middle
of the week He shall bring an end
to sacrifice and offering. And on
the wing of abominations shall be
one who makes desolate, Even until
the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate."

Please note the lower case "h" in "he" in verse 27
refering not to Messiah in verse 26 but the
to the "prince that shall come".
Note it is written that the Anti-messiah's seven years
are divided in the middle by the abomination
of desolation, dividing the 7-year period into
to parts each 3½-years long (1260 days, 42 months).

The rapture (caught up) will follow a resurrection,
FOR IT IS WRITTEN in 1 Thessalonains 4:13-18 (KJV1873):

But I would not have you to be ignorant,
brethren, concerning them which are asleep,
that ye sorrow not, even as others which have
no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose
again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus
will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of
the Lord, that we which are alive and remain
unto the coming of the Lord shall
not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from
heaven with a shout, with the voice
of the archangel, and with the trump of God:
and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain
shall be caught up together with them
in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air:
and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

The rapture/resurrection will occur without
previous notice and before the Tribulation period
(wrath) FOR IT IS WRITTEN in
1 Thessalonains 5:1-10 (KJV1873):

1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren,
ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that
the day of the Lord so cometh as
a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say,
Peace and safety; then sudden destruction
cometh upon them, as travail upon
a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness,
that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light,
and the children of the day: we are
not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others;
but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night;
and they that be drunken are drunken
in the night.
8 But let us, who are of the day,
be sober, putting on the breastplate
of faith and love; and for an helmet,
the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath,
but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 Who died for us, that, whether
we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together,
and edify one another, even as also ye do.

The rapture (caught up)/resurrection (gathering)
is at the beginning of the Tribulation period
(time of the Anti-messiah)
FOR IT IS WRITTEN in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 (KJV1873):

Now we beseech you, brethren,
by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,
and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind,
or be troubled, neither by spirit,
nor by word, nor by letter as from us,
as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means:
for that day shall not come, except
there come a falling away first,
and that man of sin be revealed,
the son of perdition;

I have shown IT IS WRITTEN:
The Anti-messiah shall reign for 7-years,
the Tribulation period.
The rapture (caught up) will follow a resurrection.
The rapture/resurrection will occur without
previous notice and before the Tribulation period
(wrath).
The rapture (caught up)/resurrection (gathering)
is at the beginning of the Tribulation period
(time of the Anti-messiah)
--------------------------------

While the Bible is specific on the length
of various events, it doesn't tell us
when the events will start with the pretribulation
rapture/resurrection.

BTW, on topic, the USofA isn't mentioned
in the Bible. I think God can tell the
difference between New York and Babylon
just as He can tell the difference between
Rome and Bablyon.

[prophecynut]

graemlins/wave.gif Ed, you old die hard.

[rsr]

Personally, I am skeptical of all eschatological roadmaps that string together chapters and verses into a coherent whole that will somehow alert us to the "last days." Anyone who claims otherwise, IMO, is stepping beyond Scripture.

"But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left. Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.

But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into. Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

— Matthew 24:36-44 ESV

[prophecynut]

Originally posted by rsr:


"But concerning that day and hour no one knows,

for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.

Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

The "day and hour" does not include the month or year. Are you unintentionally adding to Scripture?

The personal pronoun "you" refers to whom? Jews in the gospels are always told to "watch" for their Messiah and the Church is always told to "wait" for their Savior, do you know why?

[Ed Edwards]

Prophecynut: //The "day and hour" does not include
the month or year.//

I respctfully disagree. In prophetic language 'day'
means the appropriate time. In prophetic language
'hour' means the appropriate time. If used in
prophetic language 'month' would mean the appropriate
time. If used in prophetic langauge 'year' would
mean the appropriate time. In prophetic language
'day and hour' means the REALLY appropriate time.

Rsr: //Personally, I am skeptical of all eschatological roadmaps that string together chapters and verses into a coherent whole that will somehow alert us to the "last days." //

Act 2:14-19 (KJV 1611 Edition):
But Peter standing vp with the eleuen, lift vp his voyce, and said vnto them, Ye men of Iudea, & all ye that dwell at Hierusalem, be this knowen vnto you, and hearken to my words:
15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third houre of the day.
16 But this is that which was spoken by the Prophet Ioel,
17 And it shall come to passe in the last dayes (saith God)
I will powre out of my Spirit vpon all flesh: and your sonnes and your daughters shall prophesie, and your yong men shall see visions, and your old men shall dreame dreames:
18 And on my seruants, and on my handmaidens, I will powre out in those daies of my Spirit, and they shall prophesie:
19 And I wil shew wonders in heauen aboue, and signes in the earth beneath: blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke.

The last days began on the day of Pentacost, 33AD (some will
say this date varies, but this event marks the
beginning of the last days). The last days will end at
the pretribulation rapture/resurreciton of the global chruch,
The Bride of Christ, the Body of Christ. This will be
the start of the Tribualtion period of two 3½-year periods.
The end of the age has not come yet. But now is the end
of the age closer than it has ever been before.

[tamborine lady]

graemlins/type.gif

Acts 1-6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

I believe times and seasons includes years!!

Selah

Tam

[tamborine lady]

graemlins/type.gif

If any of the new people want to see some answers to where the 7 years, sets of 3 1/2, etc come into play in the course of time, you might be interested in checking out the following thread.

http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/28/2963.html?

If you can't reach it with this link, you will find it on page 14 of the topics that were posted some time back and have run off the board. It is entitled "490 YEARS DONE!!!"

Tam

[prophecynut]

Tammy's quote
He said to (them): It is not for (you) to know the times or the seasons,

The personal pronouns "them" and "you" refers to the "apostles" in verse 3, not the Church which began later at Pentecost. The Church was still a mystery at this time and not in the context of this passage.

[KenH]

You ought to be in politics, PN, with the way you parse statements. graemlins/laugh.gif

[C4K]

Originally posted by prophecynut:

As posted in a different thread, there is a reference to foreigners being sent to USA for the purpose for selecting targets for destruction (Jer. 51:2). During the coming invasion of America foreigners will fall victim to the sword (50:37), those who escape the sword will "flee to (their) own land" (50:16).

The foreigners who want to destroy America are mostly Muslims from various nations, specifically the Iranians (51:11; 28). The foreigners here during the invasion and those who escape the sword and return to their native land are from all the nations.

All this will happen before its "too late" to retaliate, that day of destruction will come like a thief in the night, "suddenly" like a "trap" (Jer. 50:24; Lk. 21:34; 1 Thess. 5:2-3).

England and Israel will experience the same. Where do you find the US and UK in Scripture? I have yet to find them.

[prophecynut]

Jer. 50 is one of seven prophetic chapters on US, England is our "mother" (v.12).

[C4K]

And you have Biblical proof of that I assume?

Could you point me to a reference that this chapter talks about the United States and her mother England?

[prophecynut]

Yep, sure do, all the pieces fit together, the picture is complete.

[C4K]

How about some Bible proof instead of a personal interpretation?

[C4K]

I keep seeing Babylon and Chaldea in this passage, not the US and her mother.

The word that the LORD spoke against Babylon and against the land of the Chaldeans by Jeremiah the prophet. Declare ye among the nations, and publish, and set up a standard; publish, and conceal not: say, Babylon is taken, Bel is confounded, Merodach is broken in pieces; her idols are confounded, her images are broken in pieces. For out of the north there cometh up a nation against her, which shall make her land desolate, and none shall dwell therein: they shall remove, they shall depart, both man and beast. In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together, going and weeping: they shall go, and seek the LORD their God. They shall ask the way to Zion with their faces thitherward, saying, Come, and let us join ourselves to the LORD in a perpetual covenant that shall not be forgotten. My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their resting place. All that found them have devoured them: and their adversaries said, We offend not, because they have sinned against the LORD, the habitation of justice, even the LORD, the hope of their fathers. Remove out of the midst of Babylon, and go forth out of the land of the Chaldeans, and be as the he goats before the flocks. For, lo, I will raise and cause to come up against Babylon an assembly of great nations from the north country: and they shall set themselves in array against her; from thence she shall be taken: their arrows shall be as of a mighty expert man; none shall return in vain. And Chaldea shall be a spoil: all that spoil her shall be satisfied, saith the LORD. Because ye were glad, because ye rejoiced, O ye destroyers of mine heritage, because ye are grown fat as the heifer at grass, and bellow as bulls; Your mother shall be sore confounded; she that bore you shall be ashamed: behold, the hindmost of the nations shall be a wilderness, a dry land, and a desert.
(Jer 50:1-12)
Is this talking about a Canadian invasion of the US?

[prophecynut]

"out of the north there cometh up a nation against her" - this is Russia.

"Come up against Babylon an assembly of great nations from the north country" - this is Russia and Muslim nations, will include former Soviet Union satellite nations that still have Soviet missles.

[prophecynut]

Other nations coming against us are "Ararat, Minni and Ashkenaz" (51:27)." Ararat is located in present-day Armenia near Lake Van. Minni is located south of Lake Urmia in what is today western Iran, and Ashkenaz is located near Lake Urmia and Ararat.
These three nations make up the land area between the Turkey border and the Caspian Sea, also the location of Russia nuclear missiles.

[TexasSky]

In the late 1970's and early 1980's there were some very respected theologians who thought the end was going to come "very soon," during the 1980's. I can't remember now what the exact year they said was.

They were certain it was going to be some kind of nuclear war between Russia and the US. We were both supporting opposite sides in some of the Middle East wars, we hated each other, the "biblical warnings" seemed to be happening (wars, earthquakes, etc.) Some verses in Daniel that talked about a bear rising up were thought to be Russia. Some of the Ezekiel references to eagles were taken to be America.

Some people thought Gorbachev was the AntiChrist due to the fact he had a birthmark on his head.

They were wrong.

Then another group sprang up. They were certain the end was going to be a nuclear war started by Israel, and that it would happen before the year 2000.

God will pick his time. We need to be ready - whether it is today or 10,000 years from now. We need to witness and do the work God gave us to do.

[KenH]

Originally posted by prophecynut:
Yep, sure do, all the pieces fit together, the picture is complete. Anybody can take any prophecy and twist it around to claim it menS whatever he wants to make it say. That's how we end up with cults like the one in Waco back in the early 1990s - the Branch Davidians.

[C4K]

Originally posted by prophecynut:
"out of the north there cometh up a nation against her" - this is Russia.

"Come up against Babylon an assembly of great nations from the north country" - this is Russia and Muslim nations, will include former Soviet Union satellite nations that still have Soviet missles. Russia is north of the United States? I must need a new map.

[C4K]

Originally posted by rsr:
Personally, I am skeptical of all eschatological roadmaps that string together chapters and verses into a coherent whole that will somehow alert us to the "last days." Anyone who claims otherwise, IMO, is stepping beyond Scripture.

"But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left. Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.

But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into. Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

— Matthew 24:36-44 ESV Once again I find myself in agreemement with my dear brother.

[prophecynut]

Russian missiles will come from the north over the North Pole, the earth is round, not flat.

[C4K]

Gotcha.

A nation from the North is actually a nation from the other side of the globe who fires their missiles northwards, which becomes southwards when they cross the North Pole.

So actually Brazil is north of the Unites States as well. Interesting geography.

Another thought - since Russia is North of the US is the US also north of Russia?