Jewish gospel/Gentile gospel?

[bmerr]

To All,

bmerr here. On another thread, and in other places, I've heard the idea advanced that while Peter and the eleven preached baptism for the remission of sins to the Jews, Paul went to the Gentiles with a gospel of salvation by grace through faith.

I personally don't see any difference between what Paul preached and what Peter preached, but it might be beneficial to discuss the notion and either uphold it, or lay it to rest.

Awaiting your thoughts.

In Christ,

bmerr

[BobRyan]

Gal 1:6-11 Paul argues that there IS only ONE Gospel. In the Gospels Christ and John preached "The Gospel of the Kingdom"

In Gal 3 we are told that the "Gospel" Was preached beforehand to Abraham.

In Heb 4:1 we are told that the "Gospel was preached to US JUST as it was to THEM also"

There is and WAS and HAS EVER BEEN only ONE way of salvation for mankind - ONE message of good news! It has always been through the Messiah and it has ALWAYS been by grace through faith -- from Genesis to Revelation. From the day of the fall of Adam to this very day.

ONE Gospel.

ONE Good news.

ONE way of Salvation.

ONE savior.

Not two.

In Christ,

Bob

[hillclimber]

While I agree Bob that salvation has always been a matter of faith, it has been faith in the revelation as given to man in each different age.

None of the old testament saints could believe in the finished work of Christ, for example. Some were to keep the law, for example.

[BobRyan]

"Law keeping" (obedience vs rebellion) was never given as "a savior" according to Gal 3 and Romans 3. It was never a "means of salvation" or "the ONE Gospel".

By the same token - rebellion against God is STILL NOT a means of salvation today. (Though some imagine that it is)

The ONE Gospel ALWAYS invovled the New Birth and the Law "written on tablets of the human heart".

In the ONE and ONLY Gospel.

The fact that the work of Christ FOR US was a PROMISE in the future - vs reality in past HISTORY has nothing to do with God's certainty of KNOWING it -- only our level of trust required to "accept it".

By their "Accepting" something that had not YET happened in human history - they were expressing even MORE faith! Hence it is only OT saints that appear in the NT faith chapter - Heb 11 as examples FOR US.

In Christ,

Bob

[av1611jim]

By their "Accepting" something that had not YET happened in human history - they were expressing even MORE faith! Hence it is only OT saints that appear in the NT faith chapter - Heb 11 as examples FOR US.

In Christ,

Bob
__________________________________________________

This is ridiculous since the NT had not even been completed yet. In addition, there is no such thing as one having "more faith" than another. God has given to all men the necessary faith for salvation. This is the error of the Word/Faith movement. "If only you had 'more faith' you could be healed/out of debt/ blah, blah, blah."

To answer the op; there is only ONE Gospel. That of the Kingdom of God and that man may be part of it because of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.

The notion that "Law" was part of the OT 'gospel' is false. Abraham BELIEVED God and it was counted to him for righteousness. This happened at least 25 YEARS before he was told to sacrifice Isaac.

The common problem and misunderstanding among christendom today is that many think there is ONE salvation. There are TWO. One is for eternity and is based on faith alone. The other is for the coming Milleniel Kingdom of Christ and is a REWARD for faithful service. God has revealed many things in DUALITY for us to understand and believe. The Advents of Christ are just ONE example of such DUALITY. There is ONE gospel which is revealed in a DUALITY of truths.

Should one prayerfully examine Scripture with this truth in mind, one will see the alledged disparity between Peter and Paul is thereby solved.

In HIS service;
Jim

[hillclimber]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
"Law keeping" (obedience vs rebellion) was never given as "a savior" according to Gal 3 and Romans 3. It was never a "means of salvation" or "the ONE Gospel".

By the same token - rebellion against God is STILL NOT a means of salvation today. (Though some imagine that it is)

The ONE Gospel ALWAYS invovled the New Birth and the Law "written on tablets of the human heart".

In the ONE and ONLY Gospel.

The fact that the work of Christ FOR US was a PROMISE in the future - vs reality in past HISTORY has nothing to do with God's certainty of KNOWING it -- only our level of trust required to "accept it".

By their "Accepting" something that had not YET happened in human history - they were expressing even MORE faith! Hence it is only OT saints that appear in the NT faith chapter - Heb 11 as examples FOR US.

In Christ,

Bob Moses was not saved by his faith in Christ. Neither was Noah, nor Issaic, Jacob, etc. They were all saved because they BELIEVED the revelation of God for them at the time.

[Frank]

In Acts 20, Paul is in Ephesus where he preached the gospel of the grace of God.vs. 24. According to vs. 21, he preached this gospel to both Jews and Greeks. It is clear there is one gospel for all men under the new testament of Christ. Roms. 1:16.

[BobRyan]

By their "Accepting" something that had not YET happened in human history - they were expressing even MORE faith! Hence it is only OT saints that appear in the NT faith chapter - Heb 11 as examples FOR US.

In Christ,

Bob __________________________________________________


This is ridiculous since the NT had not even been completed yet
The book of Hebrews is written several decades AFTER the cross and there are MANY examples of Apostles, NT Christians etc to draw upon. The point is that for the NT Saints the OT saints CONTINUED to be models for saving faith - real faith and the ONE GOSPEL in living color.

OF course for those who believe in "more than one Gospel" - this could be a problem.

In Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by Frank:
In Acts 20, Paul is in Ephesus where he preached the gospel of the grace of God.vs. 24. According to vs. 21, he preached this gospel to both Jews and Greeks. It is clear there is one gospel for all men under the new testament of Christ. Roms. 1:16. "Under the New Testament of Christ"???

IS this your way of denying the Words of Christ in John 8 claiming that Abraham actually SAW Christ??!

Is this how we deny Gal 3 "The Gospel was preached BEFOREHAND to Abraham".

Is this how we deny the point in the Book of Hebrews where Paul says "WE have had the Gospel preached to US JUST AS THEY also" Heb
4:1?

Do you see anywhere - where the NT text is called by the NT saints "The New Testament of Christ"??

In Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Moses was not saved by his faith in Christ. Neither was Noah, nor Issaic, Jacob, etcWell "THAT" is "another Gospel" for sure.


In the meant time the proto-evangelian IS found in Gen 3 and the term "Christ" IS in fact merely the Greek term for the OT doctrine on the "MESSIAH".

Hard as it seems to believe - the ONE sin problem started in Eden Pre-flood and the ONE Gospel solution - began there as well.

God so loved "the WORLD" that HE gave! (yes - really!)


In Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

The common problem and misunderstanding among christendom today is that many think there is ONE salvation. There are TWO. One is for eternity and is based on faith alone. The other is for the coming Milleniel Kingdom of Christ and is a REWARD for faithful service. This is one of the most complete "TWO GOSPEL" models I think I have ever seen explicitly stated.

Of course in Gal 1:6-11 Paul denies that such a thing exists - but that would be scripture.

In Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

ONE Gospel.

ONE Good news.

ONE way of Salvation.

ONE savior.

Not two.

[Frank]

Bob:
Quote/
"Under the New Testament of Christ"???

IS this your way of denying the Words of Christ in John 8 claiming that Abraham actually SAW Christ??!

Is this how we deny Gal 3 "The Gospel was preached BEFOREHAND to Abraham".

Is this how we deny the point in the Book of Hebrews where Paul says "WE have had the Gospel preached to US JUST AS THEY also" Heb
4:1?

Do you see anywhere - where the NT text is called by the NT saints "The New Testament of Christ"??

In Christ,

Bob;

No, Bob it is not. Abraham looked for a city whose builder and maker was God. However, Abraham did not have the complete picture.


No. Abraham lived during the age of the patriarchs. His faith was based upon his direct knowledge of God.

No. You are simply comparing different dispensations of time. My post is a clear reference to Peter and Paul as it pertains to the new testament of Christ. Mat. 26:28, Hebs. 9;15-17, I Cor. 9:21.

No. It is implied by Hebrews 9:15-17, Mat. 26:28.

[prophecynut]

The common problem and misunderstanding among Christendom today is the incorrect understanding of the kingdom offered to Israel during the gospels. Popular belief has a physical kingdom offered to Israel and a spiritual kingdom given to the Church.

As we see from Luke 11:35; 17:21 the "kingdom of God is within you." Because Israel rejected the kingdom Jesus took it away from them and gave it "to a people who will produce it's fruit" (Mt. 21:43; Gal. 5:22). The Church did not inherit a physical kingdom from Israel, it was a spiritual kingdom.

The Jews were as confused as Christians are today, Jews thought Jesus intended to restore the physical kingdom a few days before Pentecost (Acts 1:6). Before his crucifixion the Jews had hoped he "was the one who was going to redeem Israel" (Lk. 24:21). They were looking for the deliverance of Israel from foreign domination and for the establishment of an earthly kingdom.

There is one gospel rejected by Israel and given to the Gentiles. There are two kingdoms, one spiritual rejected by Israel and inherited by the Gentiles and a physical kingdom that Israel will inherit after the Second Coming.

[hillclimber]

prophecynut:
While I recognize you're correct in the Jews rejection of the Messiah, I disagree that the Church (The Body of Christ made up of every believer today) inherited a spiritual Kingdom. We got, as a result of Israel's rejection a whole new deal, completely apart from Law or a Kingdom, hid in the Father and payed for in full by Christ's finished work on the cross. God raised up a whole new apostle, never aligned with the original twelve, with the job of telling Jew and Gentile that they were one in Christ. In the institution of this mysterious age of grace, we were freed of the bondage of the law. Remember the Judiasers that sought to dilute Pauls message with elements of the law? Paul actually had to have an instructional talk with Peter, to his face it says. God had to show Peter that the previous taboos on food were now over.(white sheet)

No we inherit no part of the displaced Kingdom, and thankfully so. We are new creatures in Christ, saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus.

[prophecynut]

hillclimber says:

The church did not inherit a spiritual kingdom.
We inherit no part of the displaced kingdom.
We have a new deal completely apart from a kingdom. Gal. 2:7
"On the contrary, they saw that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the Gentiles, just as Peter had been to the Jews."

After Pentecost Paul preached the same gospel or kingdom to the Gentiles as Peter preached to the Jews before it.

Here is the kingdom you are not aware of:

1 Col. 1:13
"For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves."

1 Thess. 2:12
"encouraging, comforting and urging you to live lives worthy of God, who calls you into his kingdom and glory."

We inherited this kingdom:

Acts 20:32
Now I commit you to God and to the word of his grace, which can build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified."

Eph. 1:13-14
"And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel (or kingdom) of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption.."

Also: Eph. 1:18; 5:5; Heb. 9:15; 1 Pet. 1:4.

You said: "In the institution of this mysterious age of grace." The age of grace or age of the Church is no longer a mystery, it was revealed to Paul, we now participate in the kingdom or gospel as it applies to the Church.

[hillclimber]

OK we are again confusing the long promised Kingdom, with the overall kingdom of God. This kingdom as you call it, today, has no comparison with the promised Messiah ruled Kingdom. It's better title would be "Age of grace" Compare methods of comportment, ways of salvation, use of sign gifts, evangelizing methods, etc. Completely different ways of God dealing with man.

When Jesus was leaving in the ascension He said, "These signs will follow" (Mark 16 I think) and they thus far have not. We have no one living after consuming poison, and people die daily in spite of our enlightened Christain community and our famous medical care system.

[hillclimber]

Even at the ascension Jesus was still offering signs to Israel, the thick headed chosen people. We have no signs today, because we are not Israel, spiritual or otherwise.

[hillclimber]

Christ's entire ministry, while on earth was to Israel. As was Peter's, John's, Matthew's, Mark's, and all the other apostles. Paul was raised a set apart apostle, preaching an entirely new message to the people in the new program called the "Body of Christ."

[prophecynut]

Hey hillclimber, are you spamming the board or is this a futile attempt to vindicate yourself?

[prophecynut]

Originally posted by hillclimber:
OK we are again confusing the long promised Kingdom, with the overall kingdom of God.

No I'm not confusing the two kingdoms, the overall kingdom is spiritual the long promised kingdom is a physical kingdom promised to Israel.


This kingdom as you call it, today, has no comparison with the promised Messiah ruled Kingdom.

Exactly what I said above.


It's better title would be "Age of grace" Completely different ways of God dealing with man.

Agree, or Church Age. Regardless of what we call the age we live in, it is still the kingdom of God .

Mark 16:17-18, We have no one living after consuming poison, and people die daily in spite of our enlightened Christain community and our famous medical care system.

Correct, this ability was given to the original apostles, not the Church today.

[prophecynut]

Originally posted by hillclimber:
Paul was raised a set apart apostle, preaching an entirely new message to the people in the new program called the "Body of Christ." Agree that Paul preached a new message and a new program concerning the Church, but he used the same gospel foundation as Peter did. Basically the gospel message is "Jesus came to save" which happened before and after Pentecost. There are differences, but they don't change the final outcome of those saved, whether in the Gospels or the Church Age.

[TorahKeeper]

I am amazed at how little you all understand. The church is Israel, Israel is the Church. Dont forget Gal 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
God didn't change His prommise. SO everything that was promised to Abraham and his descendants are for the redeemed, all the promises and the warnings too. Remember if you aren't obedient you wont inherit the blessings, just the curses.

[hillclimber]

Originally posted by prophecynut:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by hillclimber:
Paul was raised a set apart apostle, preaching an entirely new message to the people in the new program called the "Body of Christ." Agree that Paul preached a new message and a new program concerning the Church, but he used the same gospel foundation as Peter did. Basically the gospel message is "Jesus came to save" which happened before and after Pentecost. There are differences, but they don't change the final outcome of those saved, whether in the Gospels or the Church Age. </font>[/QUOTE]I actually fail to see much disagreement here. Except our hope is heavenly, and the Kingdom hope is earthly.

[hillclimber]

Originally posted by TorahKeeper:
I am amazed at how little you all understand. The church is Israel, Israel is the Church. Dont forget Gal 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
God didn't change His prommise. SO everything that was promised to Abraham and his descendants are for the redeemed, all the promises and the warnings too. Remember if you aren't obedient you wont inherit the blessings, just the curses. An honest assessment by you TorahKeeper, but you, like most in Israel today, are stuck in Moses, and haven't accepted Christ's work on the Cross as having fulfilled all the law.

[hillclimber]

Originally posted by prophecynut:
Hey hillclimber, are you spamming the board or is this a futile attempt to vindicate yourself? I'm sorry my friend but I don't understand what you mean by spamming, and I don't understand what you mean by vindicating myself. I don't feel any need of vindication.

I simply don't understand your post.

[hillclimber]

Originally posted by prophecynut:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by hillclimber:
OK we are again confusing the long promised Kingdom, with the overall kingdom of God.

No I'm not confusing the two kingdoms, the overall kingdom is spiritual the long promised kingdom is a physical kingdom promised to Israel.


This kingdom as you call it, today, has no comparison with the promised Messiah ruled Kingdom.

Exactly what I said above.


It's better title would be "Age of grace" Completely different ways of God dealing with man.

Agree, or Church Age. Regardless of what we call the age we live in, it is still the kingdom of God .

Mark 16:17-18, We have no one living after consuming poison, and people die daily in spite of our enlightened Christain community and our famous medical care system.

Correct, this ability was given to the original apostles, not the Church today.


</font>[/QUOTE]I see no problems between us here.

[hillclimber]

Originally posted by prophecynut:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by hillclimber:
Paul was raised a set apart apostle, preaching an entirely new message to the people in the new program called the "Body of Christ." Agree that Paul preached a new message and a new program concerning the Church, but he used the same gospel foundation as Peter did. Basically the gospel message is "Jesus came to save" which happened before and after Pentecost. There are differences, but they don't change the final outcome of those saved, whether in the Gospels or the Church Age. </font>[/QUOTE]Peter was saved before the resurrection. Remember Peter's statement of faith, "Thou art the Christ", and Nathanial's "Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel." These and all saved of that day were saved because of belief in Christ. How wonderful for Peter to get to witness the resurrection, and all it meant.

The promise for everyone to this point was, "The land". Paul preached a heavenly hope for the body of Christ, made up of every single believer since the Paul's ministry took off. There was obviously some overlap of programs here but my personal view is that salvation placed each one in the Body church, whose hope is heavenly.

Even in the time of "New heavens and earth," our area of dominion will be from a heavenly place, otherwise why would the Lord proclaim both.

In the overall scheme of things we aren't far apart, as our approach to life should be unchanged by these differences. But PN, you and I have other issues that we disagree on, though not germane to this discussion.

[prophecynut]

Originally posted by hillclimber:
These and all saved of that day were saved because of belief in Christ. Amen, but before the Church began they were not "in Christ" or members of His body. The 12 disciples later at Pentecost were taken into the body of Christ.


The promise for everyone to this point was, "The land". There are many OT prophecies promising Israel the land, but I don't see this promise in the Gospels, do you have any Scripture?


Paul preached a heavenly hope for the body of Christ, made up of every single believer since the Paul's ministry took off. Amen, the OT saints had the same hope but are not in the body of Christ. Different dispensation, same destination.


There was obviously some overlap of programs here
70 AD temporarily ended God's plan for Israel, the Church began 33 AD, a overlap of 37 years. A according to my future chronology, there will be an overlap of 3.5 years during the 70th week.



you and I have other issues that we disagree No problem, eventually you will come around when you see the whole picture.

[Kamoroso]

Chap.13


ROM 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
ROM 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Now we will address the question of who the nation of God is in this new covenant era. As has been the case with all that we have examined in relation to the transition from the old covenant to the new, that which was literal has now been replaced with that which is spiritual. For those Jews who accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as the Son of God and their personal Savior, it became quickly apparent that God does not respect any person abover another, but was inviting all to be a part of His kingdom.

According to the Apostle Paul, being a Jew has nothing to do with that which is outward in the flesh, but rather that which is inward, of the heart, and the spirit. In the new covenant, circumcision of the flesh no longer carries any weight in determining who is A Jew, but rather circumcision of the heart. The heart must be circumcised in the spirit if one is to be an Israelite of the new covenant.

ROM 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
ROM 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
ROM 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
ROM 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


GAL 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
GAL 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
GAL 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
GAL 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


COL 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor ncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Paul could not have made it any clearer. Anyone who accepts the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal Savior, is a child of God. They are Christ's, and being so they are also Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Abraham is the father of the nation of Israel. If you are of Abraham's seed, then you are unquestionably an Israelite. Israel is now a spiritual nation. The purpose of the literal nation of Israel has been fulfilled in Christ. It has not been done away with, but rather made complete. The old testament clearly pointed to this event taking place.

GEN 26:3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;
GEN 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;


HEB 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.


The prophecy in Genesis was given to Isaac. God's purpose in calling out Abraham from his brethren was not only for those who would compose the literal nation of Israel, but for the blessing of those of all nations. The purpose of the nation of Israel was to preserve a people, and a knowledge of God in the world until God Himself established salvation for all mankind through his Son. This purpose being fulfilled, the literal nation of Israel must needs give way to the spiritual nation of Israel composed of all those who are in Christ, regardless of what nation they were born into. If they choose to be born again in Christ, then they are God's children. As pointed out in the verse above from the book of Hebrews, Christ is the one prophesied in Genesis as the seed that shall be a blessing to all the nations.


GAL 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
GAL 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
GAL 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Who are the Israel of God, but those who glory only in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ. Those who have become separate from the world by faith in Christ are those who compose the new covenant Israel. The only way to become separate from this world is to die. The only way to die and yet still have life, and have it more abundantly, is to die in Christ on the cross, thus allowing Him to live within us. These things we have already discussed. This is a spiritual experience. Those who are a part of the new covenant Israel, are those who have entered into this spiritual experience. The Lord Jesus Christ made it clear while here on earth, as one of us, that those that would be His were to be separate from the world.

JOH 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
JOH 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.


JOH 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
JOH 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
JOH 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

Those who are Christ's are not a part of this world, they are a part of the next world, the one that will be established at Christ's second coming. This world and all that is in it is passing away. Only those who are a part of spiritual Israel, who have come out of this world by faith in Christ, will remain and be a part of the next eternal heaven and earth. We who have entered into the experience that Christ has prepared for us are already a part of eternity. This is not because of anything in us, but only as a result of connecting ourselves with the one who is eternal.

HEB 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
HEB 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
HEB 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

We are Abraham's seed. Just as Abraham obeyed God by faith and by faith sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, so we are in this world but are not a part of it. Just as Abraham looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God, so we are awaiting the return of Christ to establish His everlasting kingdom here on earth. Our experience is the same as his, by faith waiting for the establishment of that which has been promised to us, although we can not see it.

HEB 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
HEB 11:14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
HEB 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
HEB 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Christ has promised that He will return and receive His own. He will establish His everlasting kingdom here on the earth. His true followers, those that compose the spiritual nation of Israel, are awaiting His return to set up His kingdom. They have separated themselves from this world and are preparing to be a part of the next one. They are not trying to make another literal nation or kingdom of God here on this earth, but are calling all out of this world to prepare for the next one in which God Himself will rule for eternity.

JOH 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
JOH 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
JOH 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


PE2 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
PE2 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

The new covenant Israel is waiting upon the Lord. It is composed of those of every nation and tongue on earth that have accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. They are looking for and hastening the day of the Lord. They are actively involved in the work of preparing others for His soon coming. This is not done by attempting to create literal nations of God here on earth through the power of legislation. It is done by calling people out of the literal nations of this world and into the spiritual nation of Israel. It is accomplished through the power of the Holy Spirit, not the power of the state. Those who compose God's kingdom here on earth must be born again. No kind of legislation can bring about the new birth experience of the new covenant. Those who are of the flesh are not of God's kingdom, but only those who are of the spirit.

ROM 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
ROM 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
ROM 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
ROM 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Christ came from the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. All the children of Israel are of the seed of these fathers of Israel. However, as Paul points out, this does not automatically make them Israelites. It is the children of the promise that are counted for the seed, not the children of the flesh. Isaac was the child of promise. His birth was a miracle from God. This miracle was not for the sake of Abraham and Sarah, but for the blessing of all nations. Christ was of the seed of Abraham. In Him all nations were to be blessed. For this reason, Abraham and Sarah must have had a child of their own. Not for their own sake, but because God had chosen Abraham and his descendants for this very purpose. Through them and their descendants (namely Christ) God intended to save the entire world. This is why those of the flesh are not counted for the seed, but only those of the promise. That is to say, those who have accepted the promise, in and through the Lord Jesus Christ. These are they that compose Israel, spiritual Israel.

Isaac was the child that God had promised to Abraham and Sarah. It is God's promise that we are talking about. Abraham believed God and this was counted to him as righteousness. "ROM 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness." Isaac was the miracle child of promise to Abraham and Sarah. Christ is the miracle child of promise to the entire world for the salvation of all. All who accept Christ as such are the children of the promise. They have believed God's promise through His Son, and it is counted unto them as righteousness.


GEN 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
GEN 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
GEN 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

As we have discussed in previous chapters, the literal nation of Israel was brought about by God, and for God's glory. All of the miracles and wonders performed by God for Israel were only leading up to the greatest miracle of all, that God Himself should become a man for the salvation of all humanity. Everything about the old covenant, and the literal nation of Israel, pointed to Christ and humanities deliverance through Him. The establishment of the new covenant on the other hand, fulfilled our deliverance in Him. All things come together and are made complete in Christ. In Christ, the literal nation of Israel has become a spiritual one without walls or boundaries that separate anyone from God's blessings. Just as God brought about and established the old covenant Israel through His miraculous power, so He has brought about and established the new covenant Israel through the greatest miracle of all. In Christ all the families of the earth have been blessed and come together.


ROM 4:9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
ROM 4:10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
ROM 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness
of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
ROM 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
ROM 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
ROM 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
ROM 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
ROM 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
ROM 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Abraham is the father of all who exercise his same kind of faith in God. In these last days, that faith is to be fixed upon the Lord Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. God's nation on earth during this new covenant era, cannot be a literal nation, for it is composed of all those who are experiencing this faith. The gospel of Jesus Christ breaks down all barriers and walls between peoples. It is a final message to the entire world. When this message has been given to the entire world in one generation, and all have made a decision regarding which world, or kingdom, they want to be a citizen of, then the end will come. When all have made their decision, the Lord Jesus Christ will return and set up His eternal kingdom.24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

There is only one decision to be made. Am I a part of this world, of one of its many different and often warring countries or kingdoms, or am I going to choose by faith to be a part of God's kingdom here on earth? Am I a part of this world, and all of its pain and misery and corruption and abuse, brought about by selfishness? Or am I going to choose by faith to be a part of God's kingdom, ruled by the one who demonstrated selflessness and true love to the world through His Son the Lord Jesus Christ?

We can live in this world and yet not be a part of it. Stop for a moment, take a good look at what is going on in this world, do you really want to be a part of all that it stands for. I don't mean just look at your own life, I mean take a good look at just how much suffering and pain is going on in this world. It was never meant to be this way, and it is not going to be this way very much longer. This world is on its last leg, soon it will come to a complete and utter end. Come out of this world, and help others to do so. Lets get ready to meet the Lord Jesus Christ, and join Him in the new heaven and earth where righteousness dwells.

Christ has established a new kingdom here on earth, one that will never end. All are invited to be citizens of the eternal kingdom of God. As is the case with all that we have discussed regarding the establishment of the new covenant, the spiritual nation of God here on earth was brought about in and through Christ. By becoming a man and taking upon Himself our flesh and nature, He has made those of us who choose to be so, citizens of the kingdom of God.


HEB 2:1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
HEB 2:2 For if the word spoken by angels was steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
HEB 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
HEB 2:4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
HEB 2:5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
HEB 2:6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man that thou visitest him?
HEB 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
HEB 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
HEB 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
HEB 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
HEB 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
HEB 2:12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
HEB 2:13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
HEB 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
HEB 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
HEB 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
HEB 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things
pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Christ was made like unto His brethren in all things. He was and is one of us, and this is salvation. If we are in Him, and He is in us, then we are no longer part of that which is passing away, but are part of that which is eternal. This is a spiritual experience that separates those of the world from those of Christ's kingdom. Again, all things come together and are made complete in Christ. The literal nation of Israel's purpose was to point forward to the coming of Christ, at which point the spiritual nation of Israel was established. Christ fulfilled and completed the purpose of literal Israel, the blessing of all nations of the earth, by establishing spiritual Israel. We will examine more of the specifics of how Christ established spiritual Israel in the next chapter.

Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith

[prophecynut]

No! No! Not another Seventh Day Aventist, :rolleyes:

[Claudia_T]

Does all of Scripture tell us about Jesus?
"And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself." Luke 24:27.

Where in the Bible is the first promise of the Redeemer?
"And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." Genesis 3:14,15.

In what words was this great truth explained to Abraham?
"And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice." Genesis 22:18. (See also Genesis 26:4; 28:14.)

To whom did this promised seed refer?
"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ." Galatians 3:16.


The Gospel in the Old Testament

In what condition did the sin of Adam place the human family?
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" Romans 5:12.

How does the offer of salvation come to all?
"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." Romans 5:18.

Is there any other way to obtain salvation?
"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12.

Through what are men saved?
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God." Ephesians 2:8.

By what were the patriarchs to receive the promises of God?
"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all," Romans 4:16.

What did the prophets teach concerning justification through faith?
"Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith." Habakkuk 2:4.

Through whom did the prophets teach should come the remission of sins?
"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." Acts 10:43.

Did Abraham possess this faith?
"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness." Romans 4:3.
"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad." John 8:56.

How did Abraham have a view of Christ's day?
"And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed." Galatians 3:8.

Whose children are all that believe?
"Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham." Galatians 3:7.

What did faith in Christ enable Moses to do?
"By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompense of the reward." Hebrews 11:24-26.

From what source did the children of Israel draw spiritual life?
"And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ." 1 Corinthians 10:2-4.

Where must the gospel hope have been learned, before the New Testament was written?
"For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?" John 5:46,47.

Who inspired the Old Testament writers in their declarations?
"Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow." 1 Peter 1:10,11.

From what did Christ preach the gospel to His disciples when on the way to Emmaus?
"And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself." Luke 24:27.

Who is both author and finisher of the plan of salvation?
"Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God." Hebrews 12:2.


Think of this:
CAIN AND ABEL
These brothers were tested, as Adam had been tested before them, to prove whether they would believe and obey the word of God. They were acquainted with the provision made for the salvation of man, and understood the system of offerings which God had ordained. They knew that in these offerings they were to express faith in the Saviour whom the offerings typified, and at the same time to acknowledge their total dependence on Him for pardon; and they knew that by thus conforming to the divine plan for their redemption, they were giving proof of their obedience to the will of God. Without the shedding of blood there could be no remission of sin; and they were to show their faith in the blood of Christ as the promised atonement by offering the firstlings of the flock in sacrifice. Besides this, the first fruits of the earth were to be presented before the Lord as a thank offering.


BY FAITH
Hebrews 11:
4: By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
5: By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6: But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
7: By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
8: By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9: By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10: For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
11: Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
12: Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

13: These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.


THE "EVERLASTING GOSPEL" (see verse 6)
God's people are here identified as they who "keep the commandments of God AND the faith of Jesus" and thus it has ever been.

Revelation 14:
6: And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

12: Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

[Claudia_T]

"prophecynut"

Dont worry, Seventh Day Adventists just try to enlighten Christians to the fact that the Gospel and the Commandments go hand in hand. Nothing to be afraid of.


THE "EVERLASTING GOSPEL" (see verse 6)
God's people are here identified as they who "keep the commandments of God AND the faith of Jesus" and thus it has ever been.


Revelation 14:
6: And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
12: Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, AND the faith of Jesus .

(and that involves ALL TEN of the Commandments, by the way, not just the ones you like hearing about)


Rv:22:14: Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


Try not to be on Satan's side of the issue and be careful who it is that you war against...

Rv:12:17: And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

[Claudia_T]

prophecynut,

And besides, keeping the Sabbath isnt some sort of terrible thing. Nothing for you to hate about it.

The Sabbath involves recognizing God as your Creator.

Revelation 14"6: And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7: Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters . (compare with the 4th commandment, the Sabbath commandment)

Taking one day off a week from doing your own work, the seventh day of the week as God commanded, to think about God is a GOOD THING... just like thous shalt not kill, thou shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt not worship idols... etc. Dont exactly know WHY it is that most Christians wouldnt think of breaking the other 9 commandments yet they seem to HATE the Seventh Day Sabbath. It is a reminder of God, OUR CREATOR... and the fact that it is to HIM that we owe our allegiance... the true God, creator of heaven and earth.

Isaiah 58:
13: If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
14: Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.