celebrating EASTER is an insult to Christ

[wopik]

Easter began long before the time of Christ.

Easter is the Ishtar celebration.

Ishtar, Astarte, Ashtoreth were all the same. It was a single pagan goddess that was worshiped, under various names, in different countries over the centuries.


Because sunrise on Sunday morning, at the beginning of spring, was next to December 25th, the holiest day in the Mithraic calendar, the prac*tice of Easter sunrise services continued on into Christianity.

Because Mithra was worshiped on the first day of the week, which the Persians and Ro*mans called the sun day, Sunday sacredness *which is nowhere to be found in the Bible — came into the Christian church.


http://www.present-truth.org/Easter-2a.htm

[Chemnitz]

Why am I not surprised? :rolleyes:

[Debby in Philly]

Wait, shouldn't we be bashing St. Valentine's Day and St. Patrick's Day first?

[Chemnitz]

Wait, shouldn't we be bashing St. Valentine's Day and St. Patrick's Day first? No, it is more fun to disturb the conscience of good Christian people by calling them a pagan because they want to celebrate the resurrection on a specific day.

[Debby in Philly]

As I remember, Jesus arose EARLY in the morning on the FIRST DAY of the week. Would seem a good reason for Resurrection Day sunrise services, don't you think?

Now all of the stuff the WORLD has added to Easter, chicks and bunnies, eggs, etc., THAT has roots in the pagan celebrationo you speak of. But even those things can be used to speak of Jesus' resurrection and our NEW LIFE in Him, now can't it?

Redeem the Day!

[Johnv]

Since I don't worship pagen deities, I cannot be accused of idolatry by commemorating Christ's resurrection, whether it's on Easter Sunday, or any other day.

[Eliyahu]

I have never seen anyone confessing that he or she is worshipping pagan deities, except those who do not even know the concept of pagan.
However, in reality there are many among the nominal Christians worshipping many pagan gods, like Money God, Goddess Mary, god of this world, etc. actually.

They expect that they would be welcomed by Jesus, but He warns it by saying:

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

That's why Paul says:

2Cr 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:
... in reality there are many among the nominal Christians worshipping many pagan gods, like Money God, Goddess Mary, god of this world, etc. actually.
I'm not one of them. The fact that I commemorate Christmas and Easter is by no means an indicator of doing so, either. Anyone who accuses me of such is a false accuser who needs to repent of their false accusation.

[Eliyahu]

I would rather tolerate if anyone celebrate Pasxa as Resurrection Day without calling Easter, because Word Easter came from Ishtar.

In some other countries I noticed Resurrection Day.

[ccrobinson]

I really shouldn't have to post this, but it appears to be necessary, not that the legalists on this board will get the point.

Romans 14:5-6

One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

[Jim1999]

Here we go again. The same old nonsense. No wonder the world at large frowns on fundamentalist Christianity!!!!!!

Cheers, and bless the Lord, He is risen, and I happen to celebrate that fact especially on Easter Sunday, according to the Anglican Church calendar,

Jim

[standingfirminChrist]

We celebrate our risen Lord. I do not believe it is an insult to Him at all. I am sure the two women were in a very joyful spirit when they carried the news to the disciples that Christ was risen indeed!

Our hearts should be joyous daily at this great news. And if a body of believers chooses to have special services to recognize this joyous occasion, I say let them!

Some people only go to church on Christmas Sunday and Easter Sunday. It would be a shame to take those holidays away and see those not come to church at all. I think those days we should be preaching Christ coming into the world as Savior, and Christ rising from the dead as Redeemer!

[Eliyahu]

I know this has a tricky start. Often pagan worshippers excuse it with Romans 14:5 in which Paul mentions a certain background of legalistic customs, not the contamination with pagan worship.
If you read about Acts 12:3-4 you may have a glimpse of the fact. In case of Christmas, the date has no ground at all because Birthday of Jesus must be during Apr-Oct and interestingly Dec 25 is the birthday of Horus, Egyptian god.

In case of Easter, the date falls on the almost same day as Passover week, because Ishtar Festival was on the 15th day of Full Moon after vernal equinox lasting 8 days too, while Pesach or Pasach was 14th of the same month lasting 8 days.
So it is really difficult to distinguish between Resurrection Day and Easter(Ishtar Day).

If the people really want to celebrate Resurrection of the Lord, then they should call the day as Resurrection Day, not as Easter which is the English transliteration from Ishtar.

As for Ishtar Day, you can find here:

http://www.dragonrest.net/histories/ishtar.html


http://www.ishtartemple.org/history.htm


http://www.ishtartemple.org/sacredIshtar.htm


As for Biblical comments you can find :
http://dshortt.homestead.com/files/a_study_into___easter__lent__chrstmas__the_cross.h tml


Easter was not observed by the Apostles:

http://www.bibleanswer.com/easter2.htm


Pagan Origin of Easter:

http://www.rightdivision.com/html/easter_pagan_influences.html


Webster Dictionary Origin of Word for Easter:

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?noframes%3Bread=31275

[Chemnitz]

Here we go again. The same old nonsense. No wonder the world at large frowns on fundamentalist Christianity!!!!!!
Amen to that Jim. I am growing weary of people trying to weigh down the consciences of other Christians because the find the celebrations of Christmas and Easter offensive. If they can not celebrate these days because of it may destroy their faith so be it, I will not force them, but it would be nice if they accorded their stronger brothers and sisters the same courtesy.

Easter which is the English transliteration from Ishtar. Does anybody besides me realize how ridiculous this statement is? :eek:
If the links provided are to believed then Ishtar is Babylonian and the Babylonian alphabet does not resemble the alphabet we use today or the alphabet used by the KJV translators. This all means that Ishtar itself is an English transliteration of the Babylonian word.

[Hope of Glory]

At our church, we worship on both the day it really happened and the day that the world has set aside. However, on the day the world has set aside, we still worship in a Christian manner, avoiding bunnies, dyed eggs, etc.

[Jim1999]

This a little aside, but of interest, I think, about how the world enters the Christian's world. When the telly first came on the scene, the Plymouth Brethren would not have one in their household. It was of the devil, they said, and not biblical. Then, they decided that when Jesus returns, "every eye would see Him." How would this be possible if the world is a globe? Perhaps this is where the telly can be used....every eye could see Him on the telly. Well, the telly started to show up even in PB's homes............

Cheers,

Jim

[Eliyahu]

Originally posted by Chemnitz:
If the links provided are to believed then Ishtar is Babylonian and the Babylonian alphabet does not resemble the alphabet we use today or the alphabet used by the KJV translators. This all means that Ishtar itself is an English transliteration of the Babylonian word. [/QB]If you deny returning to the name of the day calling Resurrection Day, then it means that you deny that you are celebrating the day as a memorial for Resurrection of the Lord.

The Word Easter is not meant in the Bible as a memorial for Resurrection, because King Herod didn't beilieve in Jesus.
Apparently Easter is a kind of Transliteration from German "Oster" which is from Ishtar too.
Ishtar is an Assyrian name of Astaroth.

If you really celebrate the Day of Resurrection, then you should call it Resurrection Day.

[Eliyahu]

Jim, We don't know about how Lord will appear exactly. Our human calculation doesn't work. He may show up quickly on one side then move to the other side in nano second. Otherwise, He has not got out of this gallaxy even though He ascended in the speed of light.
I think His show up will not depend on human device or telly.

You can see that by accepting this and that customs, we become quickly lukewardm, which we should avoid.

[Chemnitz]

The Word Easter is not meant in the Bible as a memorial for Resurrection, because King Herod didn't beilieve in Jesus. What does that have to do with anything? Herod didn't even celebrate passover because he wasn't a jew. Why the KJV translators decided to translate pasca as Easter will remain a mystery, but that also is a moot point.

What is important is that in the Christian church Easter is synymous with resurrection and has nothing to do with an idol named ishtar. Anybody, can see that the Easter celebrations in the Christian Church have nothing to do with any pagan religions, so I seriously doubt there is any confusion on the subject. The only people who seem to care are legalists who wish to burden the souls of Christians with extra laws and atheists who wish to disturb and discredit Christians. So, I will call it what I will and ask you once again to quit trying to impose your extra-biblical legalism on other people.

[Eliyahu]

Originally posted by Chemnitz:
What is important is that in the Christian church Easter is synymous with resurrection and has nothing to do with an idol named ishtar. Anybody, can see that the Easter celebrations in the Christian Church have nothing to do with any pagan religions, so I seriously doubt there is any confusion on the subject. The only people who seem to care are legalists who wish to burden the souls of Christians with extra laws and atheists who wish to disturb and discredit Christians. So, I will call it what I will and ask you once again to quit trying to impose your extra-biblical legalism on other people. [/QB]1. Do you know the origin of Word "Easter" ?
If the origin is wrong, at any time we discover something wrong, then we should rectify it.
If you want to stck to the wrong word nevertheless, then you are confessing your strong desire for paganism.

2. If you disagree, it is OK. This board is free for everybody and you don't have to participate here. I will preach the truth so that people can return to the right worship of True God. Please leave me ! I am not forcing you !

[Chemnitz]

1. Do you know the origin of Word "Easter" ?
If the origin is wrong, at any time we discover something wrong, then we should rectify it.
If you want to stck to the wrong word nevertheless, then you are confessing your strong desire for paganism. I have no desire for paganism. I have no desire to worship any god but YHWH. Despite the past meanings of easter, it no longer has anything to do with paganism. Words change meanings in a living language and English is a living language.

2. If you disagree, it is OK. This board is free for everybody and you don't have to participate here. I will preach the truth so that people can return to the right worship of True God. Please leave me ! I am not forcing you ! As long as you continue to proclaim falsehoods, I will not leave you alone. As long as you are accusing people who are worshiping the one True God of idolatry, I will not leave you alone. When you stop proclaiming extra-biblical requirements, then I will leave you alone.

[Eliyahu]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chemnitz:
As long as you continue to proclaim falsehoods, I will not leave you alone. As long as you are accusing people who are worshiping the one True God of idolatry, I will not leave you alone. When you stop proclaiming extra-biblical requirements, then I will leave you alone

Me too !

[Chemnitz]

Me too !What you also will leave us alone when you quit proclaiming extra-biblical requirements?

[Paul of Eugene]

I say blaming others for celebrating the resurrection of Christ on Easter is insulting Christ, by making Christ out to be just like the pharasees He so roundly condemned. Christ is not like that to be insulted by an obvious honor just because of some kind of trivial naming history.

[Eliyahu]

Originally posted by Paul of Eugene:
Christ is not like that to be insulted by an obvious honor just because of some kind of trivial naming history. [/QB]Can you call Easter as Satan's Day?
Then can you say that you are glogifying Jesus?

Easter came from Ishtar which is a subdivision of Satan.
If you do have another origin of the Word Easter, please let me know it.

[Chemnitz]

Can you call Easter as Satan's Day?
Then can you say that you are glogifying Jesus? Anybody who has been to a Christian church on Easter Sunday wouldn't even ask such a silly question.

[Doubting Thomas]

Perhaps we should just call it "Pascha" like the Orthodox Church does and be done with it. (At least "Pascha" can't be miscontrued for the name of some alleged pagan deity.)

[Eliyahu]

Originally posted by Chemnitz:
Anybody who has been to a Christian church on Easter Sunday wouldn't even ask such a silly question. [/QB]Only silly people call the day Easter Sunday!

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:
Only silly people call the day Easter Sunday! That's not the issue. All are permitted religious liberty to do silly things. The issue is whether commemorating Christ's ressurection on Easter Sunday is idolatry, or whether the practice of commemorating Christ's ressurection is scripturally forbidden. You've come up with absolutely nothing, from scripture or otherwise, to support your claims.

[Eliyahu]

Originally posted by Johnv:
The issue is whether commemorating Christ's ressurection on Easter Sunday is idolatry, or whether the practice of commemorating Christ's ressurection is scripturally forbidden. You've come up with absolutely nothing, from scripture or otherwise, to support your claims. [/QB]You are calling Day of Resurrection as Satan's Day! because Easter is originated from Ishtar which is a subdivision of Satan, as I told you before.

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:
You are calling Day of Resurrection as Satan's Day! because Easter is originated from Ishtar which is a subdivision of Satan, as I told you before. I don't care where it originated. I care what is means here and now. Here and now, Easter Sunday is the day Christ's resurrection is celebrated. Heck, the names of every day of the week originated from false deities. But they don't mean those anymore.

So unless you refrain from calling days of the week by their names, you haven't a leg to stand on. And even if you do so refrain, you still don't have a leg to stand on.

[Eliyahu]

If you really commemorate the Resurrection Of Jesus, why don't you call the day Day of Resurrection?

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:
If you really commemorate the Resurrection Of Jesus, why don't you call the day Day of Resurrection? That's not the issue. The issue is whether callign it Easter is a sin. It is not. Period.

[Eliyahu]

Celebrating Day of Resurrection as Easter Day is wrong. Period.

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:
Celebrating Day of Resurrection as Easter Day is wrong. Period. You have failed wholely to provide scriptural support for that claim.

[padredurand]

At our church we call that particular Sunday Resurrection Sunday. Now that I think of it that would be wrong, too, blending the sacredness of the Resurrection with the paganism found in the day named after the sun. Wish I had checked with you guys before we had the sign painted.

[natters]

Eliyahy, is observing "Sunday" (the pagan day of the Sun) an insult to Christ?

[Johnv]

What about using numbers (1,2,3,4,5,...)? They're arabic numbers. We got our numbers from arabic heathens and idolaters.

[Eliyahu]

Natters, did you forget the proper naming! shame on you! it might be because you are indulged in Worshipping Mother of God these days!

[natters]

Sorry Eliyahu, I made a typing mistake. Please forgive me. And answer the question.

[Eliyahu]

How does your Mother of God teach you about it?

[natters]

I'll take that as you don't have a real answer.

[Eliyahu]

The names of dates per week have Moon, Sun, Mars, Saturn, Venus like that and French is clearer in that aspect.
Even in Greek words, there are many words polluted with pagan words which are used for pagan worship as well. Therefore people say that Hebrew words are the language least contaminated with pagan religion.
In Hebrew, you can notice that dates are called simply 1 day, 2day, 3rd day as we see in John 2:1.

We can have a name of street in Toronto as Ottawa street, or you can have a Gloucester street in Dallas too. That is not to be pagan.

I don't think naming dates Sunday, Monday after the names of stars or planets is a pagan. Even though pagan worship had not existed before we can still name the dates like that in order to distinguish dates each other.

But in case of Easter, there are many problems, because, celebrating any special dates were abolished since the Crucifixion and Paul warned about this in Galatian 4:4-5.
Moreover, Celebrating Easter Sunday was the day for Ishtar's Festival as I mentioned before.
Then the more problem is that the name of the Day is called Easter which is apparently from Ishtar, Assyrian name of Goddess Asherah.

In such case can we call Semiramis Day?
Natters, you may be the expert in Mother of God since you call Mary as Mother of God all the time.
You can find this Ishtar being called Mother of God too!

So, my word was that if people really celebrate the Day of Resurrection indeed, they should call it as Day of Resurrection. Do you think it is wrong?

[Paul of Eugene]

(sniff) my sainted mother used to insist that every Easter Sunday we all dress up in brand new clothes - underwear shoes and all - and go to church looking our very best on Easter Sunday, to honor our Lord.

You're not just insulting my Lord, you're insulting my sainted mother.

She still teaches a Sunday School class. Watch out, or she'll use you as an example of the pharasee mind set in action to her whole class, and so will I! :mad:

[natters]

Eliyahu, thank you for reminding me why I ended my previous discussion with you. :rolleyes:

[Eliyahu]

Please read 1 Kings 22:6-40. I can imagine how the situation was with Micaiah when 400 so-called prophets prophesied wrongly, in the name of Jehova.

[mioque]

Just to make Eliyahu happy I'll notice that in my country we celebrate Pasen (that word comes from Pascha/Pesach) instead of Easter.

[mioque]

Eliyahu
The correct German term is by the way Ostern, a word that derives from the name of pagan goddes Ostara. Outside of some truly freaky etymology there seems to be no connection between Ostara and Isjtar

[Eliyahu]

I told you that you may call the Day the Day of Resurrection, but you refuse calling it as Resurrection Day, instead you want to stick to calling it as Easter Day (English version of Ishtar Day). Therefore it proves that your heart is actually worshipping Ishtar, while your mouth confess Jesus .

Ezekiel 8: 12
Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark, every man in the chambers of his imagery? for they say, The LORD seeth us not; the LORD hath forsaken the earth .


Ezekiel 8:8
Then said he unto me, Son of man, dig now in the wall: and when I had digged in the wall, behold a door .9 And he said unto me, Go in, and behold the wicked abominations that they do here

Ezekile 8:14-16
14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD'S house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz. 15 Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these. 16 And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD'S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.

Ezekiel 8:18 .
Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them.

***************************

Dig out a hole in the wall of your Heart, look into your heart, then you will see that you yourself is worshipping Ishtar, while your mouth is confessing Jesus. You are worshipping Ishtar, heading toward East, Sunrise. That's why you want to stick to EASTER .


****************

James 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble .

[Eliyahu]

Originally posted by mioque:
Eliyahu
The correct German term is by the way Ostern, a word that derives from the name of pagan goddes Ostara. Outside of some truly freaky etymology there seems to be no connection between Ostara and Isjtar You may be a Dutch and speak German. I speak German too.
Ost means East. Satan planted Goddess worship everywhere, even though the titles may vary slightly depending on the regions.
In UK, it was Diana, even though it is oriented to Goddess of Hunting.

Ostara seems to be Goddess of Norse.

Artemis (Ephesus), Venus (Rome), Aphrodite (Greece), Isis(Egypt), Ishtar(Assyria, Chaldaea), Astoreth(Lebanon), Asherah (Israel), Sing Mu(China), are more or less the same as Ishtar, Queen of Heaven, Mother of God, Goddess of Love and War, Goddes of Underworld.

[ January 06, 2006, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: Eliyahu ]

[Eliyahu]

A good coverage of Easter:

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t020.html

[padredurand]

Eliyahu - Consider what we know to be factual from these verses

Esther 9:26-27 KJV
(26) Wherefore they called these days Purim after the name of Pur. Therefore for all the words of this letter, and of that which they had seen concerning this matter, and which had come unto them,
(27) The Jews ordained, and took upon them, and upon their seed, and upon all such as joined themselves unto them, so as it should not fail, that they would keep these two days according to their writing, and according to their appointed time every year;

</font> A holiday was established and named for a gaming device.</font> The holiday was established by the Jews.</font> They established it on their own without clear direction nor commandment of God.</font> They placed the responsibility of holding to the festival to all generations.</font> They placed an additional responsibility on people who align themselves with the Jews.</font> They required that the holiday be observed without fail.</font> The holiday would be two days, not just one.</font> There would be an appointed time each year.</font> AND GOD DID NOT SAY ANYTHING TO STOP THEM NOR PROHIBIT THE CELEBRATION OF PURIM!</font>
He did not prohibit the celebration. He did not restrict it in any way. He did not call down fire from Heaven to destroy their Purim keeping. He did not reject the festival in anyway. He did not halt the plans and proclaim He made no commandments. He did not proclaim Purim as extra-biblical. He brought no wrath or fury against Purim keepers even though the holiday was their idea and not God's. He did not even mention any repulsion against calling the holiday after dice. He sent no prophet to warn the Jews against holding holidays that were not commanded.

Comments?

[Eliyahu]

Originally posted by padredurand:

Comments? [/QB]Is Purim related to Paganism?
Tell me how the title Easter is originated, if it is not from Ishtar.

[padredurand]

Is Purim related to Paganism?To some the use of dice (pur) is a form of divination. In that respect I would say the name implies something prohibited and very pagan. After all, didn't the Roman soldiers "cast lots" for Jesus clothing? That said, seeing the Jews took it upon themselves to begin this holiday, why didn't God say something? If its observance is not commanded anywhere in the Law how could it be considered anything less than sin.

I guess I'm still a bit confused about your stance. Is the problem celebrating the Resurrection or does it lie in the use of a name of pagan origin?

[mioque]

Diana was a Roman import goddess in what is now the UK and not linked to te name Easter.
Diana/Artemis and Aphrodite/Venus are 2 fully seperate goddess's who sometimes oppose eachother in Greek myth.
This whole all female pagan gods are one and the same was made up by Alexander Hislop in the 19th century.

[Eliyahu]

Originally posted by padredurand:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Is Purim related to Paganism?I guess I'm still a bit confused about your stance. Is the problem celebrating the Resurrection or does it lie in the use of a name of pagan origin? </font>[/QUOTE]Jews name Purim because it was designated against Jews. It means that Jews don't like that, but don't want to forget about it. Because the word Pur came from Haman. It was not Israelites that intended to thraw Pur, but it was Haman, Agagite. Jews didn't throw the lots.
It is the name of Day, in order not to forget the crisis.

There is a clear explanation in the Bible about why they named the feast as Purim. Do you find the origin of Easter in the Bible?

To me, Day of Resurrection doesn't mean anything special because I enjoy it everyday throughout the year. However, if anyone wants to commemorate it, then it should be named Day of Resurrection, instead Easter Day, which means Ishtar Day as Ishtar is a subdivision of Satan.
In case of Resurrection Day, it can apply to Romans 14:5-6.

In reality there are some countries where Christians call it Resurrection Day and the most of them have not heared about Easter Day.

[Eliyahu]

Originally posted by mioque:
Diana was a Roman import goddess in what is now the UK and not linked to te name Easter.
Diana/Artemis and Aphrodite/Venus are 2 fully seperate goddess's who sometimes oppose eachother in Greek myth.
This whole all female pagan gods are one and the same was made up by Alexander Hislop in the 19th century. I said they are more or less the same. Satan planted diverse goddess depending on the location.

[padredurand]

So your concern is with the name Easter and not what it symbolizes? To what extent should that conviction apply? Should I refrain from driving my Ford Taurus on church business because it is named after an astrological sign or, perhaps, remove the tags and refer to it as my Ford Sedan.

The car will still be there for my use but I won't have to contend with promoting astrology by driving it.

Do you find the origin of Easter in the Bible? Umm... Yes! Apparently the KJV translators weren't as put off by the word as you are...

And when hee had apprehended him, hee put him in prison, and deliuered him to foure quaternions of souldiers to keepe him, intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people. (Acts 12:4 KJV-1611)

Who am I to tell the translators they are in sin?

[Jim1999]

To-day is Epiphany. I trust all you pagans will celebrate this day as we do in the Anglican communion.

Methinks that some do attribute more credit to Satanic powers than they do to God, and believers who like to think on God.

Cheers,

Jim

[padredurand]

Epiphany Vespers in order for this evening, Jim? We will wait until Sunday for ours!

Hmm.. should I be careful about mentioning magi?

[Eliyahu]

Originally posted by padredurand:
So your concern is with the name Easter and not what it symbolizes? To what extent should that conviction apply? Should I refrain from driving my Ford Taurus on church business because it is named after an astrological sign or, perhaps, remove the tags and refer to it as my Ford Sedan.

The car will still be there for my use but I won't have to contend with promoting astrology by driving it.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Do you find the origin of Easter in the Bible? Umm... Yes! Apparently the KJV translators weren't as put off by the word as you are...

And when hee had apprehended him, hee put him in prison, and deliuered him to foure quaternions of souldiers to keepe him, intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people. (Acts 12:4 KJV-1611)

Who am I to tell the translators they are in sin? </font>[/QUOTE]I don't know about Taurus, but don't like to drive "Saturn".

You can find the details about Acts 12:3-4 in another thread about KJV:
http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3540/17.html
Some excerpts are as follows:

Why the time was Days of Unleavened Bread already, which means the Passover has already passed by. Passover is the first day of the Unleavened Bread Days, and if it was already in the middle of the Days Azumon (Unleavened), it means Passover was already passed. On this point, would you please explain your view once again?

***************
Pascha or Pasca in Greek should be checked further on the following issues:
-Whether we can find the use of the word in other ancient Greek literatures.
-Whether it was ever used for other festival than Pesach.

I don't think KJV translators didn't know about the meaning of it at that time. As you mentioned they translated correctly before and then noticed the contradiction in Acts 12:3-4, then verified it in this way:
Pascah has two meanings : 1) Pesach-Passover 2) Ishtar Festival.
And they found that the Royal families and Nobles during the Haesmonian Dynasty celebrated Ishtar Festival very much as we notice the similar celebration in Jeremiah 44:15-25, and as there was no Greek word for each separately, Pascah could have been used for both. I don't think the Royal families or nobles were so much faithful with Jehova's Festivals, but might have enjoyed certain secular festivals as we see Christmas these days.

One more thing which I am thinking about is that Verse 6 may give some hints, because it says " the same night when Herod would have brought him forth". In other words, the Pascah was already over then. Then it could be in Days of Unleavened Bread, or even Days of Unleavened Bread may have passed already.


However, if we see the next verses, we can have some hints, I think. If it happened right after Passover, then would Peter have departed next day (verse 17)? because it was still Days of Unleavened Bread. Would Herod have executed the soldiers during the Days of Unleavened Bread(v 19)? because Passover was passed just now, then.
Would Herod schedule the execution or hand over of Peter during the Days of Unleavened Bread?


WHY PASCA is mentioned as TAKING PLACE AFTER UNLEAVENED BREAD DAYS?
Acts 12:3 Then were the days of Unleavened Bread.

Acts 12:4 Intending after Pasca (Passover) to bring him forth to the people.

Acts 12:6 When Herod would have brought him forth, the same night Peter was sleeping.
( Is this after Passover but during Days of Unleavened Bread?)

Acts 12:17 Peter departed to other place.(after Passover but during Days of Unleavened Bread?)

Acts 12: 20 Herod commanded that they should be put to death. (Execution during Days of Unleavened Bread?)

My study shows (as you could see in the sites which I mentioned) that:
1 ) Ishtar took place 1 day after Pesach, Pesach 14th of Abib month, Ishtar 15th of the same month. Ishtar lasted 8 days as well. .

2) Ishtar was much more popular throughout the Middle East world, while Pesach was celebrated by religious people of Israel.
3) Kings believed that Ishtar had the authority to appoint the kings and to dismiss them, and therefore Herod would have paid very much attention to it.

4) Even King Solomon worshipped Ishtar and didn't care about the Passover, but King Herod was more faithful with Passover? (1 Kings 11:5)


5) Days of Unleavened Bread had the focus on the first day, Passover, then I believe that Ishtar had the focus on the Sunday(Sunrise) and on the final day, as a finale, with a lot of Orgies

6) Both Pesach and Ishtar festival were called Pascha in Aramaic and I can imagine nobody would have called it as Ishtar because it was holy to them.
7) Then it was re-translated as PASXA in Greek.
Otherwise, it would be very difficult to understand the contradiction and the whole situation in Ac 12

[ January 06, 2006, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: Eliyahu ]

[padredurand]

Nonetheless, the translators used the word Easter. They used it in 1611 and every revision since. You would think there has been ample opportunity to revise the "error". I am by no means a KJVO -maybe not even preferred - but the fact is inescapable, they used the word Easter.

I can only draw one of two conclusions from this: either the translators are in grievous error or your thesis is ungrounded. If the translators are in error in this one thing how can we rely on the integrity of the rest of their work? Are you ready to concede the Bible, as translated, is in error? The latter option is to concede the word Easter to be in such common usage so as to far remove it from any pagan connotation. That would make your supposition, that the word Easter is insulting to Christ, a meaningless argument. So do I side with the translators from 1611 until now or with you? I'm inclined toward the former. The word Easter in its common usage is harmless.

[Eliyahu]

Yes, they used the word Easter meaning Pagan Idol Worship!

[natters]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:
Yes, they used the word Easter meaning Pagan Idol Worship! No they didn't. See the church calendar in the front of a 1611 reprint.

[padredurand]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:
Yes, they used the word Easter meaning Pagan Idol Worship! No, they used it to designate time - a time, which by the 17th Century, associated Easter with the Resurrection of Jesus Christ and not pagan idol worship.

And when hee had apprehended him, hee put him in prison, and deliuered him to foure quaternions of souldiers to keepe him, intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people. (Acts 12:4 KJV-1611)

Either the word is benign or the translators are in error. It cannot be both.

[Eliyahu]

Originally posted by natters:
See the church calendar in the front of a 1611 reprint. [/QB]Church calendar just reflect the secular customs.
When KJV included Apocrypha, it didn't mean it is the truth, but that there are such documents.

Local customs were to name it as Easter which was the customs of the world.

Please read what I reported on KJV.
KJV is excellent in this aspect! Also, Luther did the same!

You must distinguish between Fact and Truth.
The Serpent said " in the day ye eat thereof, and ye shall be as gods " : this is not truth but is a fact.

[padredurand]

You must distinguish between Fact and Truth.As must you! The fact is they used the word Easter. However you wish to arrive at the conclusion is moot. Simply put they used the word Easter. Either the word is benign or it will draw you to suckle at the breast of the whore of Babylon. I cannot see the translators engaging in the latter so I must ascribe to the former.

[Eliyahu]

Easter Day means Pagan Festival, Ishtar Day

[padredurand]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:
Easter Day means Pagan Festival, Ishtar Day And the message of the cross, in Roman hands was one of tyranny, oppression and death. In the hands of Christ it has become the power of God. In ancient times Easter may have meant Ishtar Day but in our time it proclaims Christ's victory over death and the grave. You are welcome to your conviction and I to mine. I will never question your sincerity nor the depth of your faith because of it. I am sure there are many of us who would appreciate the same in return.

[natters]

Local customs were to name it as Easter which was the customs of the world.That's beside the point. The KJV translators used "Easter" to mean something other than Ishtar Day. They used it to mean the Christian holiday ("Holy Day") of recognizing and celebrating the resurrection of Christ. Period.

[larry9179]

Why make such a big deal of Christmas and Easter? Rome and Greece worshipped many gods. When Christianity began to flourish, they had no place to worship, so Constantine ordered temples built for Christians - thus we have our modern church. Should we throw out churches since Constantine himself wasn't saved?

The issue here is that Christians at some point simply decided that they weren't going to celebrate the birth of a sun god on the 25th of December, rather; if they were to celebrate any birth, it would be the birth of Christ. What the early Christians did was to focus on Christ instead of the false gods. Now how could paying attention to God possibly offend Him?

I heard someone complain to our pastor once that the worship music went on too long. It normally started at 10 and went on until 11 or 11:15, then the pastor would preach til he got done. This person felt like everyone needs to get out of church at a 'reasonable' time. The pastor responded, "I guess you're right Jim, God doesn't need a whole hour of praise." If you're still thinking that we changed how we did worship, you missed the point. It's not about us.

As far as Easter - Jesus didn't command us to celebrate His birth, but He did command us to remember Him every time we sit down to eat, every time Christians gather together. But we're so independent of Christ in our modern world that we've relegated this memory to scheduled Communion in church once a month (or a season). If He paid as much attention to us as we do to Him, we'd all be homeless, starving and naked.

[Askjo]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:
Easter Day means Pagan Festival, Ishtar Day Easter is a pagan holiday.

[natters]

Words have meanings. "Easter" in my dictionary says "A festival of the Christian church observed in commemoration of our Savior's resurrection. It answers to the pascha or passover of the Hebrews, and most nations still give it this name, pascha, pask, paque."

Yes, certain aspects may have had their origin in paganism, but that's NOT what "Easter" means today, nor in 1611.

[Eliyahu]

Lexicons do not reflect all the truth and it sometimes reflect paganism too.
I enjoy my religious freedo to declare the Truth:

Easter Day is the celebration of Pagan god Ishtar, Goddess and Mother of God !

[natters]

Hey, don't argue with me, argue with the English language. :rolleyes:

[padredurand]

Easter Day is the celebration of Pagan god Ishtar, Goddess and Mother of God !Oy! At least you are consistent, Eliyahu. Any other pagan rituals I ought to be warned about?

[Askjo]

Many believing scholars, who are liberal, and unbelieving scholars said that Easter is a "Christian" holiday, but many believing scholars, who are conservative, said that the Easter is a "pagan" holiday. A liberal group and a conservative group agrue each other over the definition of Easter.

I agree with Eliyahu concerning the Easter, "pagan" festival.

[natters]

Originally posted by Askjo:
Many believing scholars, who are liberal, and unbelieving scholars said that Easter is a "Christian" holiday, but many believing scholars, who are conservative, said that the Easter is a "pagan" holiday. A liberal group and a conservative group agrue each other over the definition of Easter.False dilemma. You don't know of any believing conservative scholars that recognize Easter is a Christian holiday? Come on. And buy a dictionary. smile.gif

[Askjo]

Originally posted by natters:
[QUOTE] False dilemma. You don't know of any believing conservative scholars that recognize Easter is a Christian holiday? Come on. And buy a dictionary. smile.gif Well, a liberal scholar said, "I am a conservative."

I have many books -- dictionaries, Bible references, Bible commentaries, and others. I found "Easter" in my books.

[padredurand]

Many believing scholars, who are liberal, and unbelieving scholars said that Easter is a "Christian" holiday, but many believing scholars, who are conservative, said that the Easter is a "pagan" holiday. A liberal group and a conservative group agrue each other over the definition of Easter..... Well, a liberal scholar said, "I am a conservative." Many scholars? Liberals? Unbelievers? Liberal and conservative groups? Related to the "unnamed sources" oft mentioned in the National Enquirer, perhaps?

Six pages into this topic and the only thing resolved is when y'all have painted yourselves into a corner you just yell Easter Day is the celebration of Pagan god Ishtar, Goddess and Mother of God ! until the paint dries.

So, I've asked this before and it was ignored. Let's see if we can get an answer this time. The KJV translators used the word Easter. It's a fact, I've seen it in print myself. Either the word is benign or the KJ translators are perpetuating the celebration of the pagan god Ishtar.

So, are they in error or is the term Easter meaningless?

[natters]

Originally posted by padredurand:
Many scholars? Liberals? Unbelievers? Liberal and conservative groups? Related to the "unnamed sources" oft mentioned in the National Enquirer, perhaps?
Exactly. Askjo has a habit of making claims without providing any verification information. "Somebody somewhere once said something" is generally all the "proof" he can come up with.


Six pages into this topic and the only thing resolved is when y'all have painted yourselves into a corner you just yell Easter Day is the celebration of Pagan god Ishtar, Goddess and Mother of God ! until the paint dries.
Eliyahu is simply adding the "Mother of God" phrase to try to provoke me, because of past discussion on the subject in which we strongly disagreed with each other.


So, I've asked this before and it was ignored. Let's see if we can get an answer this time. The KJV translators used the word Easter. It's a fact, I've seen it in print myself. Either the word is benign or the KJ translators are perpetuating the celebration of the pagan god Ishtar.

So, are they in error or is the term Easter meaningless?I too am waiting for them to answer that. smile.gif

[natters]

Originally posted by Askjo:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by natters:
False dilemma. You don't know of any believing conservative scholars that recognize Easter is a Christian holiday? Come on. And buy a dictionary. smile.gif Well, a liberal scholar said, "I am a conservative."
</font>[/QUOTE]I do not understand your point.


I have many books -- dictionaries, Bible references, Bible commentaries, and others. I found "Easter" in my books.
I still do not understand your point. If you have many books, no doubt you have come across some conservative believers that use "Easter" to refer to the Christian holiday of the resurrection of Christ.

[Jim1999]

OK, you want a conservative Christian scholar..Try F.F. Bruce on Easter:

The name Easter is of pagan origin, being derived from the name of a Germanic spring-goddess. But it is certainly not of her that we think nowadays at Eastertide. In most European languages the word for Easter is derived from Pascha (passover) and "Easter" itself is used in the sense of passover in the A.V. of Acts 12:4. A festival is pagan if it is celebrated in a pagan way; it is Christian if it is celebrated in a Christian way.............."

F.F. Bruce, Answers to Questions, p 194

Here endeth the debate. God be praised!

Cheers,

Jim

[padredurand]

Doth Jim1999 on the eve of Epiphany Vespers delivereth an answer? Awww, now I'll have to go work on my Pet ID implant and Social Security number barcodes as the next step in the mark of the beast theory.

[wopik]

Debbie in Philly

As I remember, Jesus arose EARLY in the morning on the FIRST DAY of the week.Hi Debbie -- the preachers say that, not the Bible.

the Bible writers don't say when Jesus rose from the dead. There were no 'eye witnesses' to the resurrection.


People started seeing Jesus alive on Sunday.


Jesus did not rise "early sunday morning" any more than He was born on Dec. 25.


If you die, like Jesus did, late afternoon, 3 days and 3 nights later (72 hrs.) you will awake from your death at the same time of day --- in this case 'late afternoon'.

[wopik]

Debbie in Pilly

Redeem the Day! Hi Debbie --- If you mean EASTER (ISHTAR - pronounced just like EASTER, silent 'H'), the day is UN-REDEEMABLE.


The LORD told His people not to re-use heathen customs for His worship (Deut. 12:30-31) ---


"Do not inquire about their gods, asking, 'How did these nations worship their gods? I'll also do the same.'


You must not do the same to the Lord your God, because they practice for their gods every detestable thing the Lord hates......"


The LORD hates EASTER -- PAGAN EASTER.


The LORD has His own annual Holy Days, the 'holidays of the Bible', they are all about Christ.

http://www.borntowin.net/biblestudy.aspx


http://www.christianpreaching.com/rondart/dartdays.htm

[Eliyahu]

Easter Day means Satan's Day, Anathema!

[Jim1999]

Stop being childish!!!

Cheers,

Jim

[Chemnitz]

Stop being childish!!!

Cheers,

Jim But Jim, being childish is so much easier. graemlins/laugh.gif

Easter Day means Satan's Day, Anathema! Again, somebody who actually went to a Christian church on Easter would not be saying such hideous lies about the Christian celebration.

[Eliyahu]

One more reasoning for Acts 12:3-4 in addition to the followings which were posted before is that After the Crucifixion of Jesus and His
Resurrection, the fever and passion for the feast of Passover has diminished, because Jesus Himself has become our Passover:


Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us (1 Cor 5:7)

WHY PASCA is mentioned as TAKING PLACE AFTER UNLEAVENED BREAD DAYS?
Acts 12:3 Then were the days of Unleavened Bread.

Acts 12:4 Intending after Pasca (Passover) to bring him forth to the people.

Acts 12:6 When Herod would have brought him forth, the same night Peter was sleeping.
( Is this after Passover but during Days of Unleavened Bread?)

Acts 12:17 Peter departed to other place.(after Passover but during Days of Unleavened Bread?)

Acts 12: 20 Herod commanded that they should be put to death. (Execution during Days of Unleavened Bread?)

My study shows (as you could see in the sites which I mentioned) that:
1 ) Ishtar took place 1 day after Pesach, Pesach 14th of Abib month, Ishtar 15th of the same month. Ishtar lasted 8 days as well. .

2) Ishtar was much more popular throughout the Middle East world, while Pesach was celebrated by religious people of Israel.
3) Kings believed that Ishtar had the authority to appoint the kings and to dismiss them, and therefore Herod would have paid very much attention to it.

4) Even King Solomon worshipped Ishtar and didn't care about the Passover, but King Herod was more faithful with Passover? (1 Kings 11:5)


5) Days of Unleavened Bread had the focus on the first day, Passover, then I believe that Ishtar had the focus on the Sunday(Sunrise) and on the final day, as a finale, with a lot of Orgies

6) Both Pesach and Ishtar festival were called Pascha in Aramaic and I can imagine nobody would have called it as Ishtar because it was holy to them.
7) Then it was re-translated as PASXA in Greek.


Peopl can see on this board how much some people who call themselves as Christians are eager to worship Easter the pagan goddess, while confessing the faith in Jesus with lips .

[padredurand]

Peopl can see on this board how much some people who call themselves as Christians are eager to worship Easter the pagan goddess, while confessing the faith in Jesus with lips .Eliyahu, I have been called many things over the years but this is a first for being called a pagan goddess worshipper and a lipservice Christian. You're marching in a one (possibly two) man parade and nobody showed up to watch. Now you are down to namecalling, bold type, and repeating posts. Retire the field. You have nothing to say, no convincing facts and you won't respond to questions.

So, I've asked this before and it was ignored. Let's see if we can get an answer this time. The KJV translators used the word Easter. It's a fact, I've seen it in print myself. Either the word is benign or the KJ translators are perpetuating the celebration of the pagan god Ishtar.

So, are they in error or is the term Easter meaningless?

Try answering the question this time unless, of course, you prefer not to communicate with goddess worshippers and lipservice Christians....

[Askjo]

Originally posted by padredurand:
Many scholars? Liberals? Unbelievers? Liberal and conservative groups? Related to the "unnamed sources" oft mentioned in the National Enquirer, perhaps? Many religious books have "Easter" --- that I read. They disagree each other concerning the Easter. That is why I gave you "UNNAMED" sources.

[padredurand]

But Askjo, the Bible uses the word Easter. Forget the Greek and the convoluted explanations elsewhere and look at the raw, unadulterated fact that the KJ Bible and its 10 reprints all use the word EASTER! Either the word is benign or it promotes pagan goddess worship. Which is it?