Weigh Down Workshop cult alert

[Joseph_Botwinick]

I want to caution you about being involved with Gwen Shamblin and the Weigh down workshop. This is not a Christian organization. As a matter of fact, Gwen is a wolf in sheep's clothing that is is along the lines of the Jehovah Witnesses. You need to know that Gwen does not belieive in the trinity or the diety of Jesus Christ. Further, she has deceptively used the WDW to infiltrate traditional main line denominations (which she refers to as apostate and the whore of Babylon) and teach them that the gospel taught within their churches is unbiblical and apostacy. Her and her husband has begaun a new church in Tennessee and are now trying to recruit WDW participants into the new church that teaches that Jesus was not God but created by God the Father, and that the trinity is a false teaching. If you don't beleive me, go to her own website at www.wdworkshop.com (http://www.wdworkshop.com) and click on FAQs. At the bottom of the page, you will find her teachings on the trinity and the diety of Jesus. She is shameless and heretical and I would discourage any Bible beleiving Christian from being involved in her cult in any way possible.

Joseph

[donnA]

You must have read my post.

Gwen is Church of Christ.
On her videos she is totally biblical.

And I won't debate the issue with you.

According to some, everyone but their church, or denomanation are a cult, and are evil. Don't know if your one of these or not, but I encounter them a lot.

[Dajuid]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by katie:
You must have read my post.

Gwen is Church of Christ.
On her videos she is totally biblical.

And I won't debate the issue with you.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, you agree with her then? Your response confused me.

Dave

[ June 25, 2001: Message edited by: Dajuid ]

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Actually Katie,

She is no longer Church of Christ. Her and her husband have started a new church called Remnant Fellowship. Her teaching are against scripture and are not Christian. Her methods of fleecing the flock with her "back door" methods are anti christian and downright evil.

Joseph

[Larry]

Way to go, Jbotwinick!
I had already seen that info (probably on one of those Expose type web pages) but it is good to see that somebody cares enough to warn others.

[Joseph_Botwinick]

http://www.equip.org/free/DS570.htm

[Joseph_Botwinick]

http://www.midwestoutreach.org/gwen2.htm

[Joseph_Botwinick]

http://www.gospelcom.net/apologeticsindex/s35.html

[Joseph_Botwinick]

http://www.sbclife.org/Articles/2000/11/Sla7.asp

[Joseph_Botwinick]

http://www.hoyweb.com/faq/WDW.htm

[Theopolitan]

J:

I visited Shamblin's site, and read her statements about the Trinity.

I also visited Hannegraf's site and read his hatchet job of her statements.

You know what? Nothing Hank said (or whoever it was that wrote the article, but you get the gist) cleared anything up. He seemed just as clueless, if not more so, than Shamblin.

Let me ask you, how does this statement, "God is one entity made up of three persons," different from saying, "God exists in three entities?"

There's no difference.

Not really. Not in any mortal mind. In fact, Shamblin was right on target when she called this a "strife over words."

She does not say that Jesus was created. She says that Jesus was "begotten," and that is the testimony of Scripture. She says that straightforward. You should go back and take some remedial reading courses. Because He is begotten, He is deity. C.S. Lewis said exactly the same thing in Mere Christianity
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>One of the creeds says that Christ is the Son of God "begotten, not created"; and it adds "begotten by his Father before all worlds." Will you please get it quite clear that this has nothing to do with the fact that when Christ was born on earth as a man, that man was the son of a virgin? We are not now thinking about the Virgin Birth. We are thinking about something that happened before Nature was created at all, before time began. "Before all worlds" Christ is begotten, not created.
. . .
A man begets a child, but he only makes a statue. God begets Christ but He only makes men. But by saying that, I have illustrated only one point about God, namely, that what God the Father begets is God, something of the same kind as Himself.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is exactly what Shamblin was saying. Simply because Shamblin may not have some of the higher levels of the understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity, does not mean that at the level she is she is wrong.

As Lewis went on to say:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>If you are using only one dimension, you could draw only a straight line. If you are using two, you could draw a figure: say, a square. And a square is made up of four straight lines. Now a step further. If you have three dimensions, you can then build what we call a solid body, say, a cube--a thing like a dice [sic] or a lump of sugar. And cube is made up os six squares.

Do you see the point? A world of one dimension would be a straight line. In a two-dimensional world, you still get figures but many figures make one solid body. In other words, as you advance to more real and more complicated levels, you do not leave behind you the things you found on the simpler levels: you still have them, but combined in new ways--in ways you could not imagine if you knew only the simpler levels.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Now, where is your hatchet job on Lewis?

It is obvious you know nothing of the Trinity except what you were told. Shamblin is miles ahead of you because she knows of the Trinity that which she has obeyed.

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Gwen Shamblin:

Others are calling me a cult because Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that Jesus is the Son of God and that He is not the Father. In other words, one small portion of their teachings must parallel one small portion of my teaching…but I assure you that there are no other comparisons.

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Gwen Shamblin:

ACCORDING TO THE TRINITY, JESUS AND GOD ARE THE SAME BEING. WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE?

IS JESUS GOD?

The answer: I believe that Jesus and God are two separate beings. I believe that Jesus is our Lord (referenced hundreds of times) and our God (referenced approximately three times), but I believe that the God of Jesus is God the Father. Jesus is not God the Father.

My statement:

Therefore, with that logic, we must have two gods. This is polytheistic and pagan.

[ June 25, 2001: Message edited by: JBotwinick ]

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Gwen Shamblin:

The Bible clearly teaches that when Jesus’ will did not match God’s

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Gwen Shamblin:

People who hold rigidly to the man-made Trinitarian doctrine say that the picture of God and Jesus and the Spirit is a mystery, that one is three and three is one, but there are no scripture references to back that up in the NIV.

[Joseph_Botwinick]

This is from the SBC's statement about Gwen Shamblin:

L.L. "Don" Veinot Jr., president of the apologetics ministry Midwest Christian Outreach in Lombard, Illinois, received more than two dozen inquiries about Shamblin from Weigh Down workers and coordinators after the Aug.10 e-mail. Veinot phoned Shamblin after reviewing the Web site, but he says the conversation only confirmed Shamblin's stance that the Trinity is unbiblical.

"When I asked about her statement that the Father and Son are two separate beings, her reply was 'absolutely,'" Veinot says. "Her views are closer to that of Jehovah's Witnesses than anything resembling the historic biblical faith."

Veinot believes Shamblin's religious beliefs avoided scrutiny for so long because of the subject matter she teaches. "Weight loss is not one of the high priorities in apologetics or counter-cult work," he says.

"The material on the Web site makes a distinction between the Father and Son that is heretical," Veinot says. "She is clearly anti-Trinitarian."

In the same Aug. 10 e-mail — which has since been deleted from the Web site — Shamblin tells followers that Christians grieve Jesus if they adhere to doctrines not found in Scripture. "If God wanted us to refer to Himself, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit as the 'trinity,' He would not have left this word completely out of the Bible."

[Joseph_Botwinick]

More from the SBC:

Shamblin no longer is in a Church of Christ congregation, however. She says her husband, David, who started a new church in the Nashville area last year with another couple, is now her pastor. She says he is the "leading shepherd" of Remnant Fellowship, which has about eighty members, many of them Weigh Down employees.

In a related development, Weigh Down faces questions about its handling of employees in connection with Shamblin's theological views and membership at Remnant Fellowship.

Carney Hawkins, a resident of the Nashville area, says she worked for Shamblin and the Weigh Down Workshop for four years. Her first three years at Weigh Down were spent coordinating classes. At the time of her dismissal, she was director of counseling and supervisor over outreach.

Carney said she was fired because of theological differences. "Gwen and I had an ongoing discussion for several months trying to nail down what she believed and what she was saying," Carney said. "To the end, I knew that I couldn't keep my job. She told me I couldn't embrace the message of grace and then she fired me.

"The problem I had is that I came to her in love with questions about what she was teaching," Carney said. "It was very difficult for me. We had been close friends. Those people were my family."

Carney said she wanted to talk to the rest of the staff before leaving Weigh Down, but Shamblin gave orders for no one to associate with Carney.

"Anyone who leaves is labeled a devil," Carney said. "She orders them not to speak or fellowship with those who leave the ministry. There is a spirit of fear."

Carney said the atmosphere at Weigh Down is extremely difficult: "It's very exclusive. There is a lot of fear and there is a lot of redefining of scriptural terms."

At least forty employees have been either fired or resigned since Jan. 1, according to an anonymous source inside Weigh Down. Carney said employees are urged to leave their churches and join the Remnant Fellowship. "The office is under a lot of pressure to be a part of that church," she said. "And some people have been fired for not joining."

[donnA]

No I do not agree with her ideas of the trinity.
I was unaware she was no longer Chhurch of Christ.
I have been doing some research on her. And will continue to look into it.
Her basic weith loss program is a closer relationship with God, seeking Him instead of food to fill heart hunger instead of eating when there is no real hunger. Learning to eat what is a proper anount of food, instead of overeating almost everytime you eat.
I was taughtt at a young age to over eat. I was an over weight child, and now adult. She is right on one thing, conventional diets do not work, besause it is not real stomach hunger the over eater seeks to fill.

I am collecting some information, and am going to talk to a few people about this. Our church is not sponsering this program, but we are meeting at and watching the videos at church. I think our pastor was not given all the information he might have needed to decide for this group to meet at the church. I plan on tallking to him tomorrow, Mondays are his day off.
I'll try to get back in here to tell what happens.

[Theopolitan]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>C.S. Lewis: If you are a Christian you do not have to believe that all the other religions are simply wrong all through. If you are an atheist you do have to believe that the main point in all the religions of the whole world is simply one huge mistake. If you are a Christian, you are free to think that all these religions, even the queerest ones, contain at least some hint of the truth. . . . But, of course, being a Christian does mean thinking that where Christianity differs from other religions, Christianity is right and they are wrong.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Here is what you quoted from Shamblin:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Others are calling me a cult because Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that Jesus is the Son of God and that He is not the Father. In other words, one small portion of their teachings must parallel one small portion of my teaching…but I assure you that there are no other comparisons. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Again, the exact same thing that C.S. Lewis postulated. Lewis went on to say that if I say I believe in God, then I line right up "with the ancient Greeks and Romans, modern savages, Stoics, Plantonists, Hindus, Mohammedans, etc.," in that fact alone. But that doesn't make me one of them.

If JW's say Jesus is not the Father, where does that contradict any teaching of the Scripture? On an elementary level it is eminently true.

All your posts from figures of SBC do not prove anything except that they are not above the bestial tactics of the secular press to repeat heresay and innuendo from disgruntled former employees.

And as it is evident that J cannot rise above the profane use of ad hominem attacks, he would make a fine minister in a SBC "church."

[Dr. Bob]

I just read through this thread and did not see anyone calling the Weigh Down folks "Jehovah's Witnesses". They simply pointed out the cult-like theology of the leaders.

This is an observable fact, without having to classify their belief with any existing cult or sect. They teach wrong doctrine and believers should be aware of that one salient fact. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I and my Father are one.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>If someone does not teach this they cease being an "orthodox christian" and become a cult or sect within christianity.

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Theopolitan:

And as it is evident that J cannot rise above the profane use of ad hominem attacks, he would make a fine minister in a SBC "church."

My response:

That's funny...I always thought of myself as having more leanings toward the CBF. But, if that is what you think of me, then I am also fine with that. Most local SBC churches would probably be more moderately conservative anyway (that I have seen) and would definitely fit my personality. Theo, do you have some personal issues you need to deal with? I sense a lot of anger in your postings. Is there a way that we can help you feel better about anything? If you want to talk, my e-mail is open.

Joseph

[Theopolitan]

Alright, Dr. Griffin. The Scriptures teach that a man and a wife become one flesh. That's the Word 'o God! It says it plainly, straightforward. One flesh. In disputable, indubitable, written in stone never to be erased. And you'd better believe it, by golly, or you're going to Hell! Yet no one is presposterous enough to confuse Mr. Jones with Mrs. Jones (unless one of them has a severe hormone dysfunction :D)

Taking that the same way you take the Scriptural teaching on the Trinity I would have to believe that Mr. Jones conjugated the nuptials with himself, (yuck tongue.gif )and that he just sometimes appears to me as Mrs. Jones.

Admittedly, the oneness of the Trinity is higher than the oneness of a man and wife, yet there are those characteristics of the Father that distinguish Him from the Son and the Holy Spirit, and these characteristics are not communicable. In other words, those properties that make the Father the Father are not present in the Son. And those properties in the Son that make Him the Son (he is described as "begotten") are not present in the Father. They are distinguishable One from the Other, though they are the One God.

I think if you talked with Gwen, you would find she agrees completely with those things. She is simply saying that Jesus and the Father are not the same person, just as if I would say Mrs. Griffin and Mr. Griffin are not the same person (though they are one flesh).

If Gwen Shamblin has sinned, it may be in that she spake unadvisedly about her personal ideas about the Trinity (which were formed from her walk of obedience to her Lord) to scorners (who know nothing of the Trinity except what they were told by some other man.

[ June 26, 2001: Message edited by: Theopolitan ]

[Theopolitan]

Lest you accuse my views on the Trinity as "unorthodox," I think you will find them attested to in the writings of the church fathers, and in Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion

[Joseph_Botwinick]

"In Shamblin's view, the church as a whole has become so corrupted over the centuries that it is teaching, in her words, 'a different good news, a different Jesus, a different spirit' from the one the Apostle Paul preached and the one the early church embraced (Gwen Shamblin, Remnant Fellowship introductory video, 2000). She claims that agents of Satan have come into the church 'secretly diguised as an angel of light because Satan himself masquarades around as an angel of light...what they've done is change the good news of Jesus Christ...what we've grown up in I feel like is the counterfeit church' (Ibid.)."

"According to Shamblin, it has been her goal all along to evangelize the apostate churches and bring in her version of the Gospel. Since the churches were unlikely to allow her to come right in and openly expose them as 'counterfeits,' she was forced to use stealth. She says: 'For the last twenty years I've had concerns about the state of the church and my first response was Weigh Down which was a message that sent lordship, total lordship, into the back door really of churches' (Ibid). This leads to the false doctrine of justification by works. She further goes on to say that anyone who disputes her interpretation is suffering from an alleged "works phobia" that has reached a zenith in our time (Remnant Basics, Audio Tape 1).

[Theopolitan]

By JBotwinick at Exposing False Teachers, Prophets and Antichrists (http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=000130&p=1)
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I don't like his Holier than thou, nobody is to be trusted attitude. It looks to me that he is looking for bad things to say about anyone but himself. I remember a preacher who was just as judgmental back in the 80s...his name was Jimmy Swaggart...and we all know what happened there. Tell me...does he ever say anything positive about anyone...or does he just look for reason to throw stone s at fellow Christians? This website reminds me of the judgmental paranoia that is often found in doomsday cults. When it comes down to it...they are the only ones to be trusted and then the ego of the dictator leads down the slippery slope and everyone ends up worst than when they started.
The guy needs to get a life...or perhaps the reason he points the judgmental finger of blame at everyone else is because he is guilty of sin himself and he is trying to divert our attention away from himself. I know at least two preachers who were like that...Jimmy Swaggart and Mark Coppenger. Both had sin in their lives and both spent plenty of time throwing stones at others. Maybe somebody should do an investigation of this person...of course...judging from the restrictions in his website...he would probably never agree to being held accountable by anyone.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Enjoy your ample helping of crow. BTW, if you find your helpings too large, Gwen Shamblin can show you how God can set you free from the bonds of your apetite.

[Theopolitan]

J,

Did you have permission to post the copyrighted material from SBC Life?

You never know who might be watching. Hate for you to damage your "witness."

[Joseph_Botwinick]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Theopolitan:
J,

Did you have permission to post the copyrighted material from SBC Life?

You never know who might be watching. Hate for you to damage your "witness."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually,

Yes I did. It was implied within the page.

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This is part of the public domain and is specifically stated that they wish for the material to be shared with others. If I see something that says I don't want my stuff shared without permission, I respect that.

I kinda think you didn't want people to see this, did you?

Oh well. too bad!!!! :D

Joseph

[Theopolitan]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JBotwinick:


Actually,

Yes I did. It was implied within the page.

Back to Top
Printer Friendly Version
Email this article to a friend

This is part of the public domain and is specifically stated that they wish for the material to be shared with others. If I see something that says I don't want my stuff shared without permission, I respect that.

I kinda think you didn't want people to see this, did you?

Oh well. too bad!!!! :D

Joseph<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not at all. I'm delighted you took the bait.

You owe Dajuid an apology, because his use fell under section 107 of Title 17 of the United States Code, Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use. It doesn't matter what anyone says on their page, it can't void the limitations on their exclusive rights.

So if I may offer a variation of your own advice posted in Contemporary Cristian Music (http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=11&t=000010&p=2) <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Would you please make sure you know what you are talking about in the future before you say things about [copyright laws] in front of people who are educated in those things?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

More crow tonight? Are you sure you won't give Gwen a call?

[ June 26, 2001: Message edited by: Theopolitan ]

[John Wells]

This thread is getting completely unChristlike! Theo, you won't gain any persuasion in this arena with the likes of the WDW teachings. J, don't let him cause you to stumble. :mad:

The Bible teaches that there is only one God or, better, that God is one.
O.T. - "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." (Deut. 6:4)
N.T. - "You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that-and shudder."
(James 2:19)

one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity, neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance.

The New Testament also teaches that Jesus was divine.
"Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,"
(Phil. 2:6)
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. (John 1:1 through John 1:2)

Did all of God become incarnate in Jesus?
"So they took away the stone. Then Jesus looked up and said, "Father, I thank you that you have heard me. I knew that you always hear me, but I said this for the benefit of the people standing here, that they may believe that you sent me." (John 11:41 through John 11:42)
Now either Jesus/God is a babbling lunatic, talking to himself, or one essence of God is communing with another.

"Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working." (John 5:17) This introduces two distinct "forces."

"There is one body and one Spirit-just as you were called to one hope when you were called-one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. (Eph. 4:4-7)

The doctrine of the Trinity is only more or less a crude human attempt to come to terms with a divine reality that is beyond us. The doctrine points to a transcendent God who could yet simultaneously become a human being and then after the resurrection also indwell other human beings (that is, the Holy Spirit). He is a God great enough to rule the universe, caring enough to live a fully human life and intimate enough to live in each believer. This is the reality that the doctrine points to. This is the truth that John teaches. Try as we like, we will never understand this divine depth, yet we can still enjoy the reality of God being with us that the doctrine points to.

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," (Mat 28:19)

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Theo,

I am sorry the truth has offended you and caused you to stumble by attacking a Christian. I will not back down from the truth...but, neither will I continue this conversation with you and allow it to cause me to stumble. If you have a question about the facts of the issue of the false teachings of Gwen Shamblin, then ask it and I will try my best to answer it as accurately as possible. Otherwise, you can keep your meanness to yourself (or dom't if you don't want to). I will not repay evil for evil or continue in this evil dialogue with you.

Brother Wells,

Thank you for reminding me of the dangers of stumbing while under the attack of Satan. You have helped me change my attitude and decide not to carry on with this personal attack.

Joseph

[ June 26, 2001: Message edited by: JBotwinick ]

[Theopolitan]

Wells,

J is a grown man (I think). If he can't take the heat then he needs to get out of the kitchen. You see how he yelped when he was held accountable by his own words.

Not that I sat here and looked through his posts to find things. I've been browsing the BB for many days seeing how things are going and what kind of discussions are going on. Many of J's posts really stuck out because of the overt pride and arrogance permeating what amounts to little more than personal jabs or outright attacks.

Shamblin's ideas about the Trinity are elementary, but the real issue that folks like Hanegraaf and the SBC have with the Weigh Down Workshop is that she has taught thousands of grateful people, mostly women, how to dethrone their bellies, and to truly be free from the desire to overeat. She has shined the light of Scripture on the the adulterous trysts that much of "mainstream" evangelicals indulge with man's ideas in the area of dieting.

The articles claiming that she has been less than honest in her objectives (her quotes are wrenched from their contexts) overlook a critical point, that she is honest and straightforward in her answers about what she thinks about the Trinity, when history has shown that those who have attempted to mislead on this subject have done so while affirming publicly that they believe otherwise.

[John Wells]

Theo,

Then Ms. Shamblin should stick to being a dietician if she cannot correctly discern the Word of God!

I'll be brief concerning her "Jesus is a separate God (diety) from God the Father" theory. If you have an ounce of discernment in you, this should be all that is necessary on this subject.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe." Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:27-28 NIV)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

God says "Thou shalt have no other Gods" and that "I alone am God." With this in mind, if Jesus were not God incarnate, then He should have rebuked Thomas. Not rebuking Thomas when He should have would mean Jesus was not perfect and therefore not the perfect sacrifice, and we are all still dead in our sins! In short Ms. Shamblin's theory destroys the atoning sacrifice that all believers have placed their faith in for salvation. Thanks and glory be to God, she is wrong :D !

[donnA]

Theopolitan

Just to let you know in looing more into Gwen Shamblin, I have found bible verses ehe has taken out of context, twisted their meaning to fit her program.
Weither purposely or just from a misunderstanding of scripture, her teaching from the bible are wrong.
You sound like someone who has done the WDW,or knows people who have.
Well I have done it, and am currently finding a lot wrong with her, I am rewatching her videos to see what I missed the first time.
My opinion is and was, and always will be, let a false teacher be so named. And her scriputure twisting is all I need.

[Gina B]

Theo, I have checked it out. I was tolerant until the end, where it was said that we should bow to all three separately, and pretty much said all three, the Father, Son, and Spirit are all gods, but the Father is the highest one.
Maybe Joseph yelped because you stomped on him with a huge mass of ungodly, unthought out, understudied logic. Please go back and read the facts. I am grateful to him for pointing it out, and for the thousands and more that think she is the greatest thing since diet candy I've got to thank him.
Gina

[Baptist Mom]

Hello,

I just joined the other day and I did not realize there was already a topic on this subject. It does look very heated here though! :eek:

I have done alot of praying about the WDW program. I am no longer going to support it. I am going to use the principles of losing weight throught the boundaries of hunger and polite fullness and use the Bible to help me along the way. I am not going to interpret Scripture like Gwen does to twist it to fit my own needs.

I have lost alot of weight through this program and have kept it off. But Biblically I just can not stand behind the program. I am going to use the Word of God to support me and draw closer to the Lord by reading and meditating more.

But I do not stand behind this program because the black cloud that surrounds it can be very damaging.

But I want to throw something out at you all
do you think the principles she uses in this program to be wrong in how to lose weight????
I think they are correct and I want to use them with the Bible for the way it was intended to be interpreted not for my own needs but for the real way it was written.

What do you think of this??? :confused:

I am not going to point anyone to the WDW but to the Word of God to lose weight.

Look forward to hearing from you all.
Cyndi :D

[Gina B]

The principal itself is correct. G-d made our bodies to function a certain way , and we need to follow that natural pattern.
Gina

[Baptist Mom]

Thank You Gina. smile.gif

That is what I was looking for.

The Lord has really convicted me on this issue. I am going to use their principles but in no way be involved in their program.

I also am going to use the Bible to encourage my daily walk with the Lord. As I draw closer to Him He will be first and the food will no longer have this hold on me.

My body is a temple of the Holy Spirit and I am going to treat it as such not constantly pushing food down it to cover up issues and responsibilities in my live but to deal with those issues by the strength in the Lord and by being led and taught by the Holy Spirit as He guides me.

Thank you all for your support.

Cyndi :rolleyes:

[Theopolitan]

Ladies (and Wells),

I agree that Gwen should be instructed about the Trinity. I will also agree that her popularity has gone somewhat to her head. For the record, I do not think she is the greatest thing since diet candy. (Diet candy? Yuck!! tongue.gif ) But she is not the demon that Hanegraaf and others make of her. (BTW, Wells, I used St. Thomas' quote in a discussion with an JW.)

Oswald Chambers said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>If we love a human being and do not love God, we demand of him every perfection and every rectitude, and when we do not get it we become cruel and vindictive; we are demanding of a human being that which he or she cannot give.
See his devotion for July 30 in My Utmost for His Highest<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What has happened is that thousands of women committed themselves to Gwen Shamblin much in the same way the sects in Corinth committed themselves to Paul or to Apollos or to Peter. Then everything she did was delightful and fine. But now she has proven a fallible human being, subject to the pitfalls that accompany popularity and which few have avoided. Now everything she does is mean and dastardly.

It is plain that all this hubbaloo over her ideas is the vomitus of Pharisaic jealousy. Her instruction concerning food and the true cause overeating have been phenomenally successful, even more so than the dismal, man-centered First Choice program started by the Southern Baptists. She is in error in one point, and it was something jealous wolves could sink their teeth into. And many are simply catching the wave like the mob who shouted Jesus' praises at His triumphal entry then at the urging of the Scribes and Pharisees demanded His crucifixion.

JBotwinick knows nothing except what another man has told him. Gwen knows that the Son is subject to the Father because it was revealed to her and she submitted to that, even at the cost of being submissive to her *gasp* husband :eek: ! She see's how a "meek and quiet spirit" is in the sight of God a great price.

She has not apprehended the higher truth that the Father and the Son are one being yet distinct persons, and honestly, who posting here has?

[John Wells]

Theo,

Please do not put words in my mouth. If you can point to any indication of jealousy in my post, please expose it for me. She can make a gazillion dollars and help people to lose a gazillion pounds and that's fine by me. I matter-of-factly stated that if she does not have the gift of biblical discernment (which any serious student of the Bible can clearly see she doesn't), she should just stick to quoting scripture; keep it simple, and not try to be some enlightened preacher that she isn't.

As others have stated in this thread, she is misleading many who assume that since she knows what she's talking about regarding weight loss, she must also know what she's talking about regarding spiritual matters. And the latter has pretty much been laid to rest in this forum. God bless.

[Baptist Mom]

Hello to all,

I just want to make a comment about this program. I had used it for two years before Gwen had come out with her own personal beliefs. No one ever questioned the program or her Biblical basis for the program.

All this came up when she came out and told people of her personal beliefs.

My question is have any of you are speaking so strongly against the program really sat down and watched the twelve videos????

My deepest concern for this program is that Gwen came out with her beliefs. There are some things in the videos I don't believe in but I am a mature Christian and for myself I can use what I agree with and put the rest aside but I would not recommend it to anyone else in fear of them stumbling. To me it could be very dangerous to be involved in a program like this because I would never want to lead anyone astray. I could never do this program on a public basis in a class or even online and I would never give any money to the program. But you know I lost alot of weight on the program and drew so close to the Lord. I don't want to have anything to do with the program but on a private basis in my home I would like to continue it. You see this theory of eating when you are hungry and stopping when you are full makes so much sense to me. Why would the Lord allow us to have hunger pains and growls if there was not a purpose in it? To me this seems like this is the way the Lord made our bodies to function.

Some have said that she twist Scriptures just for the purpose of weight control. But how many of us had used the Scriptures for applications for other areas in our lives. I think it is ok to use the Bible for overcoming things in our lives that have a hold upon us. But we need to be very careful about using these applications as doctrine. I think we need to be careful about judging others about using Scripture to make application for certain areas in our lives. The Word of God is the answer for all problems including weight.

My question is it really wrong to use a program like this that I believe the principles in losing the weight are Biblical in listening to your body for the way the Lord created you? The area we need to be cautious about is how the Scripture is applied that we don't use the application as doctrine.

I could never reccomend this program to anyone but I know it has really worked for me and I have drawn closer to the Lord by following it. But I can point them directly to the Bible.

I had seriously thought about not using anything in the program at all but I am not sure. Last time I did this I gained 35 pounds in 5 months.

So do you think is wrong to use this program in my own home alone. I know what her beliefs are but they really are not in the program and nobody would even know about them if she did not tell people.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Thank you.
Cyndi

[ July 03, 2001: Message edited by: Baptist Mom ]

[donnA]

SAcripture twisting shows a misunderstanding of scripture by Gwen. Her beleif that there is no trinity show her misunderstanding of scripture.
On the video I watched last night she says, on the subject of false teachers/prophets, that if there is one little thing wrong with what they say, then they are false. By her own judgement standards, she is a false teacher.
A quote from Gwen,"obedience is life , disobedience is death."
Since we know this isn't physical death, it must be spiritual death, so disobaying by not following her and her program is spiritual death. Which is the condition of the unsaved, not the christian. It is works based salvation she is preaching.

I have a problems when she says "women don't care about the trinity, they care about weight loss." If I care so much about self that I'm willing to follow someonme like her with her anti biblical teachings just so I can focus on me and my weight loss, it is proof I don't care about the Thrinity/God. But only about myself. That Gwen's opinion about you, because of her beliefs, and you knowing she doesn't believe in the same God you do, it is proof you don't care about that God. Thats Gwen's thoughts on it.
I for one care more about my God.

[BHarris]

From my viewpoint:

You take the good, you throw out the bad. If the practice of eating when true hunger sets in works for you, then go for it. I never got into the Weigh Down program because I saw the danger for me of "flogging." I don't eat properly because I'm not spiritual enough. That is a dangerous mindset for me. For others, it works. Use biblical discernment when associating with ANY religious based organization, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the practices of Weigh Down are invalid. Weight Watchers works, too. With a balanced approach to eating and exercise, it has helped many people in their battle. However, Weight Watchers is not a Christian organization. Depending upon your leader, you could be guided into all kinds of eastern philosophy. Does it make Weight Watchers an ineffective program? NO. It works. We just need to be able to grow to a level of maturity that allows us to see the truth and throw out the rest.

[Baptist Mom]

First of all Katie tell me where Gwen says that the trinity is not for women but weight loss is. I have done this program three times and have never heard her even mention the trinity in the program.

None of the problems with the program even came up until Gwen told others on what she believed. So I then think there was nothing wrong with the program to most people until they saw what Gwen believed and then all of a sudden everyone teared the whole program up.

Someone had mentioned weight watchers I have been there and done that. It concentrates on the food and you and not on the Lord. We don't sit here and tear apart the beliefs of the person who founded this program. None of Gwen's beliefs are in the program. I never saw in the program where she said the trinity was not for women but weight loss is for women. Now if she said it outside the program that is another issue in itself.

There have been catholic people who have had programs for different things such as alcohol and drugs and have used the Bible to overcome these strongholds and very strong Bible believing Christians used these programs and lost weight.

I know that the WDW uses Scripture to apply it to weight control but that is not necessarily twisting scripture. If we take these scriptures and make them as sound doctrine then that is twisting scripture. To take a scripture and apply to a certain area in your life is not wrong just be careful that your application is not being used to interpret the Bible literally.

We all take scripture to apply it to our lives and it was not written exactly for that reason. For example we read that the Lord is at hand. Many people apply it that the Lord will be coming back soon and that is an application to this passage. But what it really means is that the Lord is near He is always with us. Is it wrong to apply to second coming to this verse NO! of course not! So don't be so judgemental of programs that do this. Because each one of us have done the same thing.

The problem with this program is what the founder believes more than anything. But her beliefs really are not in the program. She might say something occassionally that I don't agree with but most of it has nothing to do with her beliefs. She designed this program for all denominations and she does not put her beliefs in the program on purpose.

If your sole purpose is to go through these videos and see exactly what she is saying that you don't agree with maybe your time should be spend better just getting in the Word and growing closer to the Lord.

Just because we don't agree with someone's personal beliefs it does not mean that we have to take the time to tear up their whole program. Our time would be much better spent in the Word of God and if others don't see things the way you do just pray for them. We can only change ourselves but the Lord can change others.

I think it is time we put this whole subject to bed. Don't you????

God bless.

[BHarris]

Put it bed???

Only after we all have a hot fudge sundae with lots of whipped cream!!!

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Weight watchers doesn't claim to be a Christian organization and offer a Bible Study that is intended to be used as a "back door" intended to fleece the church and get them believing in false doctrines such as works salvation, no trinity, and non diety of Christ.

Joseph

[Theopolitan]

Baptist Mom:

You keep using Scripture and your relationship to Jesus to overcome the temptation to overeat, just like Gwen taught you. My wife went through the program and it not only changed her weight, it changed her whole attitude. She loves Jesus more than food.

Beware of Gina and JBotwinick who under the guise of spirituality swallow the camels of Weight Watchers and other man-centered diet plans. (But it's okay and good because these programs don't claim to be Christian.)

Also, you are exactly right to assert that Scripture can have a multitude of applications. One godly Bible teacher I knew said, "There is only one correct interpretation, but there are many applications."

Let me ask you, is it true that the Son is subject to the Father? Yes.

Is the Father the Son, and is the Son the Father? Absurd. One begets and the other is begotten.

There is no error here whatsoever.

Are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost one God? Yes

That Gwen has not yet reconciled this in her own mind is irrelevant to the WDW, and is really only a tiny little gnat, yet sufficient to choke those who elevate intellect and scholarship above submission to the will of the Father.

You keep being a testimony of the goodness and love of the Father, and His reward of your submission to His Son as Lord.

[Gina B]

Theo, please go to page 3, the 6th reply down, and you will see what I believe about how we should eat. I accept the apology for your ignorance in advance.
On the Trinity. Gwen teaches they are three separate gods, with different levels of power, and we should bow to each separately. I do believe it is called polytheism, the belief in multiple gods, and it is unbiblical and evil.
Gina

[Baptist Mom]

Theopolitan,

Thank you I appreciate your kind post.

I was just going to leave WD but the Lord showed me I can the program without promoting it so that someone might go astray because of Gwen's beliefs. Also, none of her beliefs are in the program.

I wish there was a section on this board called general encouragement!!!! We need some encouragement on these boards!!!!

But I really appreciated what you said and I am going to continue to draw closer to the Lord through this program whether man agree with me or not I am following the Lord.

Some think it is too harsh to call overindulgence sin but it is! Jesus went to the cross for our overindulgences and we need to have true repentance and walk as He walked. Not to look to a man (or a woman) but to look only to the Lord.

God Bless and Thank you Theopolitan you have been a real encouragement to me.

Cyndi smile.gif

[donnA]

GWen says on video session 2 that the Holy Spirit is the mind set of God. She has lowered Him even lower the force of Star Wars.

[Theopolitan]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by katie:
GWen says on video session 2 that the Holy Spirit is the mind set of God. She has lowered Him even lower the force of Star Wars.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Katie, get a grip!!

St. Paul said Christ God's brightness and image, Hebrews 1:13. Is he then reducing Christ?

Why don't you provide the context verbatim? I know it would take a little more work.

[Kathy]

It's kinda scary jumping into this conversation I'll admit, but Theo, you really do seem angry and are very antagonistic toward many people involved in this discussion. Aren't you doing exactly what you are saying others shouldn't do to Gwen Shamblin? I'm not saying that you shouldn't have your opinions or that you shouldn't even post them, but you really should curb the antagonistic manner in which you post. I thought that as Christians, we approach each other AND the world with LOVE? I will pray for you Theo and I really hope that you do not see this as an attack.
Take Care & Be God's
Kathy&lt;&gt;&lt; ;)

[Theopolitan]

Kathy,

I covet all the prayers anyone would offer in my behalf.

[Theopolitan]

BaptistMom:

You are welcome, and don't allow the "superior" spirituality of scorners like Gina and JBotwinick cause you to stumble. They want to talk about God, but you obviously wish to submit to His will.

Like I said, I observed my wife participate in the WDW and saw a marvelous change in her life. I saw others who did not wish to submit to the Lordship of Christ and therefore could not overcome their apetites. These are they who were the WDW's harshest critics.

You simply keep it up and let your life speak of God's goodness. Remember what Christ said, "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him."

[Kathy]

I agree Theo! AMEN

[donnA]

http://www.newschannel5.com/news/investigates/weighdown/weigh1.htm

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Especially look at the videotaped interview with Gwen Shamblin on her theological views and the remnant fellowship.

Joseph

[Baptist Mom]

If any of you who are against this program have gone through this program I would like to hear from you...Did you go through this program before the contraversy came out and did you really have problems with the program before all this media attention about WD and what Gwen believes. If you are really honest I really don't think so. I have not met one yet that was really honest about this that said yes.

I see something here and there that she might say but the program has nothing to do with her beliefs. So instead lets tell our Christians brothers and sisters to go to the world instead???? I don't think so. Their thinking is even worse and their weight loss programs focus on themselves and the food. This is Biblical even if you don't want to admit it. Eat the way the Lord created you. Between the boundaries of hunger and fullness and focus on Him and not on yourself or the food. If you don't like what Gwen stands for then don't watch the videos and go the Bible for encouragement and support.

It is time to give this subject a rest.

Cyndi

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Actually,

This matter was laid to rest 9 days ago...I think you just didn't like the conclusion.

Let me leave it at this...look at all the evidence, pray about it, and make up your own mind through the leading of the Holy Spirit. As for me and my house, we will not subject ourselves to Gwen's unGodly teachings. We will continue to serve the Lord. We will also not encourage secular pagan programs...we will continue to endorse the First Place diet program which is scripturally sound and endorsed by the SBC. If you will look through all of the evidence, watch the video of the interview with Gwen Shamblin, look at her own website, and read the testimony of her former employees who were either fired or resigned because of the pressure to join her new church and endorse unGodly theology, you will see that she is a cult and should be avoided at all cost. If not, I will still love you as my brother and sister in Christ. But, I will seriously pray for you as I think you are getting yourself mixed up with a very dangerous cult. I consider this, along with the TBN crowd, to be one of the most dangerous cults today.

Please weigh all of the evidence carefully and spend some time praying about this and ask God to lead you in the direction you need to go.

Joseph

[Joseph_Botwinick]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Baptist Mom:
I see something here and there that she might say but the program has nothing to do with her beliefs. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Actually,

If you will watch the video interview with her, you will learn from her own lips that the program has everything to do with her theology about the trinity and the diety of Jesus. Look at the evidence...PLEASE.
http://www.newschannel5.com/news/investigates/weighdown/weigh1.htm
Take a look at http://playlist.yahoo.com/makeplaylist.dll?id=928279&segment=48400. In it she explains that her views against the trinity and the diety of Jesus has everything to do with her concept of weight loss.

Joseph

[ July 16, 2001: Message edited by: JBotwinick ]

[Baptist Mom]

Joseph,

I have looked at all...but I think first place is taking a worldly diet and putting a Christian tag on it but putting a Bible study in it. No where in the Bible does it tell us to focus on food and exercise to overcome gluttony.

Actually Gwen's theories are ok it is her doctrine that is wrong. I never said I was going to support her programs. I just said that the theories behind it are Biblical to eat between the boundaries of hunger and full. Gee whiz that God created me. The other thing is to focus on the Lord instead of the food. Why did God create us? To glorify HIM!!! I am not saying to go to a class and use the program itself. What I am saying though is I do think the principles within are Biblical. To focus on the food and not yourself.

I checked out First place and I was not impressed at all in fact I was discouraged. Just another weight program that focuses on yourself and the food but sticks a Bible study and some Scripture memorization in there.

I actually think it would be best if we would focus on the Lord and as we do this our hearts and our minds will change and we will lose weight. It is not about ourselves or food it is about our relationship with the Lord. Yes WD is right on target here. But I choose not to support WD or give it my money and I highly discourage people from going to that program because of what the founder believes. I do agree with you on what she believes is WRONG! I also think that we should stay away from the program but I do think we can use the principles and our Bibles and develop support groups within our churches and go from there without using her program or videos or anything.

I just think that most programs including this first place one still encourage focusing on the food and yourself. Requiring you to drink so much water to eat certain foods and to exercise. By goley...I never focused on any of these things and I lost 50 pounds and I gained it back through pregnancy and lost all it and have kept it off. So if we just think of how the Lord made us and eat within that paramenter and remember that our body is a temple of the HOly Spirit...yes!!!! the Holy Spirit! Read God's Word and study it and memorize it. Then take the Word and apply it to this area of addiction to food, to the computer, to tv, and to anything else that is requiring our time and energy when we should be giving it to the Lord.

The other thing I would reccommend is forget these programs. It reminds me of the self help programs that the world offers. Just get Bible out and eat between the parameters of hunger and full.

I do not belong to WD nor do I support it and I do not agree with Biblical issues that Gwen and others stand for and will not be part of it. But I do agree with the principles of eating between hunger and full and focusing on the Lord and not the food.

God Bless. I do thank you though and appreciate your thoughts on this subject.

Cyndi