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tyndale1946
09-30-2002, 12:04 AM
Now before everyone starts jumping down my throat the reason I posted this question is because some one the BB sent me an email and asked me this question. I won't devulge the persons name but I thought I would post their question and see what you all think. Is this how reformed theology is viewed and if it is why? Is it because of misunderstanding?

Though the Primitive Baptist brethren also hold to these tenants of Calvinism but our application of them is somewhat different. I know some Calvinist hold to Gospel Regeneration which we Primitive Baptist don't hold to. That being said and cleared up how can Calvinism be view as a cult?

If it holds to the doctrines taught in the Bible how does it suddenly take on cult status? I never said the Arminian brethren were in a cult and neither did I hear anyone on here make that statement of the Calvinist. So why all this confusion and I as a co-moderator here with Brother Robert, Pastor Larry and myself find this comment very disturbing but I have a thick hide. Being a Primitive Baptist and dealing with brethren in the reformed theology who are Calvinist we are always under scrutiny but a cult I feel is kind of a harsh statement! How would YOU answer this person?... Brother Glen :confused:

[ September 29, 2002, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]

Rev. G
09-30-2002, 01:57 AM
If "Reformed Theology" is a "cult," then people need to begin studying their church history quite seriously.

First, "Reformed Theology" (Scripture Alone, Grace Alone, Faith Alone, Christ Alone, Glory to God Alone) is historic Protestant / Evangelical Theology. Those who have gone away from an historic Reformational perspective have gone away from being a "true Evangelical" (I'm using this term in the historical context - not as it now exists).

If Reformed Theology is a cult, then you will have to stop doing a lot of things in churches, like....

- Calling yourself a Protestant / Evangelical
- Singing "Amazing Grace" (authored by J. Newton)
- Quoting C. H. Spurgeon
- Referring to the Great Awakening as a great revival
- Calling William Carey the 'Father of Modern Missions'
- Being Southern Baptist, American Baptist, quite a few other "Baptists" (whose roots are Reformed)

These are just a few things. A lot of others could be added quite easily.

Good question. Sad question.

Rev. G

tyndale1946
09-30-2002, 04:36 AM
First of all I would like to say one thing... When it comes to the Eternal Salvation of Gods children... I believe it is pardon the mundane expression... signed... sealed... and delivered!... It's a done deal!... IT IS FINISHED!

That being said there is an extension of that eternal salvation in time. If ye be obedient ye shall eat the good of the land and if ye rebel ye shall be beaten with many stripes. So to make a long story short there is a salvation in following the Lord in fellowship and discipleship.

Many of Gods children have suffered the correcting rod of God because they had made shipwreck of their faith. They made shipwreck of their living faith not that eternal salvation that can't be touched or lost if my understanding of scripture is doctrinally sound. You are bought with a price you are not your own.

That being said those that hear of any election though they are embraced in it... don't understand it. They feel that the election is a singling process that leaves them out as they have no control over the election. Not realizing that no man of Adams race does. I can understand how they can view reformed theology as a cult as that is what cults do... they divide people.

Election is not suppose to divide Gods children but to the contrary bring them together. Those that are not Gods children will never be brought into the Election of all his children because they do not belong to him. The hard thing for us to realize is according the the Sovereignity of God there are some not of his Elect and not of his sheep. Who are they I don't know! All those who follow him are and if you aren't of the Elect why would you follow the Lord? I don't follow the Lord to become of the Elect I follow the Lord because I am of the Elect!... Those are my thoughts what are yours?... Brother Glen graemlins/thumbs.gif

[ September 30, 2002, 03:39 AM: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]

jpbrooks
09-30-2002, 02:48 PM
People tend to see the beliefs of others outside of their chosen group of believers as "cultic". And this tendency is not limited to Christians. Good arguments are often presented to support each side of many conflicts.
This is precisely why I'm somewhat cautious about becoming affiliated with particular sects, "schools of thought", ideologies, etc., preferring instead to critically assess, learn from, and try to reconcile as many views as I can.
(Of course, this does not necessarily include assigning an equal value or epistemological priority to each view I encounter.)

The only thing that puzzles me about the "Reformed" view is why the apologists for that view are not "presuppositionalists".

I have to run.

[ September 30, 2002, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: jpbrooks ]

Rev. G
09-30-2002, 05:36 PM
The only thing that puzzles me about the "Reformed" view is why the apologists for that view are not "presuppositionalists".
FYI: Quite a number of them are.

Rev. G

ForumChaplain
09-30-2002, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by Rev. G:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> The only thing that puzzles me about the "Reformed" view is why the apologists for that view are not "presuppositionalists".
FYI: Quite a number of them are.

Rev. G</font>[/QUOTE]Presuwhatalists: Hep me some body, hep me...

tyndale1946
10-01-2002, 01:08 AM
I agree with Chappie on this when you brethren start throwing in these theological words like presuppositionalists... attach a definition because all of us do not know what it means even though you do!... Brother Glen :rolleyes:

[ October 01, 2002, 03:02 AM: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]

Rev. G
10-01-2002, 12:37 PM
Isn't this a theology page? tongue.gif

A "presuppositionalist" is one who presupposes the Being of God / the authority of Scripture. It is impossible to "prove" these things (they are received by faith, or they are rejected in unbelief). It is the approach of Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning, God..." There is no attempt to try to prove there is a God (the living and true God), there is simple acceptance of the fact (as Hebrews states, we know by faith).

This is it in a very small nutshell. Hope this is helpful.

Rev. G

jpbrooks
10-01-2002, 01:48 PM
Sorry for the delay in my response.

Here is a "mini" course in presuppositional apologetics that, hopefully, will provide some additional information. Please click on the following links below:


Page One (http://www.omahabiblechurch.org/institute_springr2001_1.html)

Page Two (http://www.omahabiblechurch.org/institute_springr2001_2.html)

Page Three (http://www.omahabiblechurch.org/institute_springr2001_3.html)

Page Four (http://www.omahabiblechurch.org/institute_springr2001_4.html)

Page Five (http://www.omahabiblechurch.org/institute_springr2001_5.html)

Page 6a (http://www.omahabiblechurch.org/institute_springr2001_6.html)

Page 6b (http://www.omahabiblechurch.org/institute_springr2001_7.html)

Page 6c (http://www.omahabiblechurch.org/institute_springr2001_9.html)

[ October 01, 2002, 12:49 PM: Message edited by: jpbrooks ]

jpbrooks
10-01-2002, 02:05 PM
Sorry I missed this reply.

Originally posted by Rev. G:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> The only thing that puzzles me about the "Reformed" view is why the apologists for that view are not "presuppositionalists".
FYI: Quite a number of them are.

Rev. G</font>[/QUOTE]Granted. But not all of "reformed" apologetics is "presuppositional".


Click here for a brief overview of apologetic methods (http://www.gospelcom.net/apologeticsindex/a108.html).

I'll be back later.

[ October 01, 2002, 01:15 PM: Message edited by: jpbrooks ]