A Primitive Baptist's look at John 3:16

[changed_like_saul]

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
-John 3:16

i have heard ministers speak on various part of this verse, such as
...God so loved the world,
...only begotten Son,
...whosoever believeth...
...everlasting life.

but i have only heard one minister preach on the "For" of this verse. the minister's name that preach it is Elder Sonny Pyles out of Texas. one day i hope to see this message on line.


Elder Pyles reminds us of the true picture of this verse begins in verse 14. one can not speak on this verse without including the 14th verse of the same chapter to have full understanding of the topic verse.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: -John 3:14

the "for" of the 16th verse is a summary word. it summarizes some statement. that statement was made in verse 14. let us look and examine verse 14.

Christ said "And as Moses..." meaning just like Moses or the same as Moses. the action is meaning the same thing Moses did "...lifted up the serpent in the wilderness,..." . Christ went on to tell Nicodemus "...even so must the Son of man be lifted up:" which is to say just the same or just like that, must I (Christ) be lifted up. to really understand what Christ is talking about we must examine Numbers 21. as we know this chapter of the bible tells us about the fiery serpents God sent the fiery serpent upon the children of Israel because they spoke against God and Moses.

6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died. -Numbers 21:6

so, we see the LORD God of heaven sending the fiery serpent among His people. the verse also tells us "much" or many Israelites died. now, let's look at this picture, we know not all the people died nor were all the Israelites bitten.

next verse to consider.....
And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live. -Numbers 21:8

God told Moses to make the fiery serpent and set it upon a pole. we all understand this to be a representation of Christ on the cross at Calvary. the verse goes on to say that "...every one that is bitten, when they look upon it, shall live." meaning each person that had been bitten when they looked at the fiery serpent would not die.

at this point in the scriptures there are three types of people:
1) those who have been bitten and died.
2) those who have not been bitten.
3) those who have been bitten and are alive.

let's look at (1) those who have been bitten and died. those who are dead can not look at the fiery serpent of brass. so, the fiery serpent of brass is of no benefit to those who are dead. just like them, unless a person has been made alive by the quickening power of Jesus Christ, Christ being lifted up has no effect, because that person is dead. now for (2) those who have not been bitten. when and if they looked upon the serpent, did the serpent do anything for them which had not been bitten? no. what need did they have, they had not been bitten, they had not been stricken with any disease (sin). same with a person that doesn't know he/she is a sinner. that person has no need for the cross, he may appear to have life, but is dead spiritually. and Jesus Christ being lifted up has no effect on anyone who does not know he/she needs a savior. now for (3) those who have been bitten and are alive. these are the ones the promise of God is made. those who are suffering from the sting of the serpent. those who know they will die because of the sting. they know they are doomed. they are tormented by the pain of their afflictions. they seek a cure for their afflictions. what gave them that affliction? a fiery serpent with poison. where does the cure come from? another serpent (anti-venom). but this fiery serpent looked like the fiery serpent that bit the Israelites, however, this fiery serpent was made a brass (which is a compound metal, which represents Christ as the Son of God and the Son of man) and those who are aware of their state (those which have been bitten and are alive), when they look upon the fiery serpent of brass, it has an effect upon them. just like when a minister lifts up Jesus Christ today and it has an effect upon someone, that someone is keenly aware of his/her state. and that state is a state of sin, doomed to die, in which the cure is Christ and Him alone.

only those who have been quickened or made alive by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ have the ability to know the retched state man is in.

i am thankful God has used Elder Sonny Pyles to enlighten me on this verse John 3:16. for using the word "for" to pull this out of God word to paint a vivid picture of a text that teaches eternal security.

May the Lord richly bless each of us.

[Dr. Bob]

Chris - Dr. Robert Moyer, longtime dean of the old Northwestern Schools in Minneapolis (under Dr. W.B. Riley) has a book of sermons on John 3:16.

He has a sermon on each word or two
For God
Loved
The World
So that
He Gave
His Only-begotten Son
That Whosoever
Believeth
In Him
Should not Perish
But Have
Everlasting Life

I got my copy for $3.50 from Sword of the Lord (who I believe published it). It is worth its weight in gold!

[Chris Temple]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> only those who have been quickened or made alive by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ have the ability to know the wretched state man is in. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A non-primitive Baptist says AMEN! smile.gif

[EPH 1:4]

I also agree with Elder Pyles, here is a site with several of Elder Pyles messages..www.pbsermons.org/elders.html..God bless

[John Wells]

That was great the second time I read it. The first time I kept thinking he's going to tell us we have to take up snakes and be bitten to be saved! :D :eek: :D

[tyndale1946]

That's Elder Sonny Pyles! I heard him preach 3 times. Two times at my church Little Bethany Primitive Baptist Church in San Diego and once at Elder Joe Holders Primitive Baptist Church in Bellflower California.

Most able minister of the Primitive Baptist and his son David Pyles is also a minister.
I believe his home church is in Graham Texas.
Some of his sermons are on the Primitive Baptist web site... Just thought you would like to know... Eugene

[EPH 1:4]

I have heard both Sonny and David Pyles preach, and what I like most is they don't take scripture out of context, just really good bible teachers.

[EPH 1:4]

bump

[swaimj]

I think I recall that this sermon was posted earlier on the BB. I think the good elder's take on the story is slightly skewed. He focuses on three types of people:

1) those who have been bitten and died.
2) those who have not been bitten.
3) those who have been bitten and are alive. It is debatable whether #2 is even possible in the text of Numbers 21.

First, it was all of the people of Israel who spoke against God and against Moses (cf. v.5). In the same way, it is all who are in spiritual rebellion against God in the matter of salvation.

Second, God sent the serpents to afflict all of the people because they were all in rebellion. In the same way, the curse of sin has fallen upon all men and all are in need of redemption.

Third, provision for healing was made for all who were bitten once the people came to Moses and confessed their sin. In the same way, Jesus' death makes possible salvation for all men.

Fourth, healing was accessed by an act of the will. A person had to look at the snake on the pole to be healed. In the same way, people are saved today when they hear the gospel and obey the command to repent and believe.

These applications of the elements of the story do not force a false importance upon people who are peripheral to the main point (such as those who died and those who were not bitten, if there were such). Rather, they focuses on the actual statements of the story and relate them to salvation. The natural flow of the story is what pictures salvation, not the process of forcing exegesis on the story to fit ones preconceived notions.

[Ray Berrian]

Ask a drug addict or someone in prison for a serious crime, if they know what a 'wretched state they are in.' They sure don't think they are on a pleasant vacation while behind bars. They know they are a sinner, but don't know the pathway out of their situation. That is where we come in. We have God Who is more than willing to forgive and to give inner peace.

A lost human being knows his or her sinfulness and guilt, without being regenerated first. In the old days we used to hear the term, 'the conviction of the Holy Spirit.' This,of course, happened before someone yielded their lives to Jesus.

[Ray Berrian]

Swaimj,

Slightly skewed?

When one believes correctly you don't have to run from the given text of John 3:16. Explain it grammatically, literally and don't hid behind a serpent's bite.

[Ray Berrian]

Swaimj,

You offered an excellent answer to the floundering Elder from the Lone Star state.

[Kiffin]

changed_like_saul,

Your post blessed my soul. Thank you very much for sharing that exposition with us. I say AMEN! to your post. smile.gif

[ May 17, 2002, 11:41 PM: Message edited by: Kiffin ]

[Andrey]

changed_like_saul,

The Saul of the New Testament was an avid Bible Scholar and well-known preacher and religious leader.

Yet, despite his enthusiasm and great studies of scripture, he had no idea who Jesus was, or what God was doing, until he HEARD Christ's voice, which started his personal relationship with Jesus.

I hope that all of us get "changed" like Saul!

Andrey
www.achievebalance.com (http://www.achievebalance.com)

John 5 39-40 (NKJV)
"You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life."

[Chris Temple]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
Swaimj,

Slightly skewed?

When one believes correctly you don't have to run from the given text of John 3:16. Explain it grammatically, literally and don't hid behind a serpent's bite.That's correct. When interpreted in context, and comparing Scripture with Scripture, John 3:16 is shown to mean that those who believe in Christ (those ordained to eternal life, Acts 13:48) will be saved. :D

[Ray Berrian]

In the book "Elect In The Son" written by Dr. Robert Shank, he deals with this much misunderstood text.

On page 183 he indicates that Almighty God did not use His unfathomable powers to unconditionally elect certain Jews into the Kingdom. In fact God takes the agency away from Himself and places it, if you will, on the heads of the Israelite people. So we read in Acts 13:46 ‘It was necessary that the Word of God should first have been spoken to you; [John 1:11] but seeing YE PUT IT FROM YOU, and JUDGE YOURSELVES unworthy of everlasting life, we turn to the Gentiles.' In this verse we do not find a deterministic God who decides the fate of His human creation. If this is true for the Israelites then we might also believe that it was true of the Gentile population also.

The good doctor of the church then goes into an extensive study of the difficult verse of Acts 13:48. ‘And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord; and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.'

Here is the problem and its solution. The Greek was interpreted into the Vulgate {Catholic version} and the Authorized Version and Revised Version followed their lead. In this unintentional way Reformed theology has bowed to the shrine of Roman Catholic theological understanding.

Alford, the Greek scholar, said on page 183 ‘The meaning of (tetagmenoi) must be determined by the context. The Jews had judged themselves unworthy of eternal life: the Gentiles, as many as were disposed to eternal life, believed. By whom so disposed is not here declared: nor need the word be in this place further particularized. We know that it is God who worketh in us the will to believe, and that the preparation of the heart is of Him: but to find in this text pre-ordination to life asserted is to force both the word and the context to a meaning which they do not contain.'

The Vulgate version had interpreters of this verse like St. Augustine and his followers in the Western Church in treating the great questions of free will, election, reprobation . . . .' Some of the Reformed churches did not accept the Vulgate version and yet were swayed by their Greek translation into their version.

If God in His sovereignty allowed the Israelites the will to determine their covenant relationship toward God in verse 46 then He would not in verse 48 choose some to life and some to everlasting destruction.

(tetajmenoi) is used with reference to the word, ordained. Tetajmenoi is a perfect, passive participle meaning, {having been disposed}. Now when we gather together the words from perfect Greek it reads like this. ‘And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as having been (ordained) {meaning}disposed to eternal life, believed. Those who were not inclined, for whatever reason, remained in unbelief.

The original intent of God written through the writings of the Apostle Paul would read like this. ‘ . . . and as many as having been disposed to eternal life, believed.' The determining fact rest not with God but human beings.

[KenH]

The last I heard of Robert Shank he was a member of the Church of Christ and quite Arminian, at the least, in his theology. Having read his book, Life in the Son, I wouldn't put much stock in his interpretation of soteriology.

[swaimj]

Ing,
Perhaps you could convince us of your position by answering the substance of Ray Berrian's post rather than dismissing it on the basis of guilt by association.

[russell55]

(tetajmenoi) is used with reference to the word, ordained. Tetajmenoi is a perfect, passive participle meaning, {having been disposed}.I looked this word up in a dictionary, a concordance, and a lexicon, and I can't find this definition listed anywhere. Are you sure this is in the accepted range of meaning for this word?

[Ray Berrian]

I used about three sources. The easiest to understand for laymen is "The Interlinear Greek-English New Testament." Zondervan Publishing House. p. 527 . . . Acts 13:48. 'And as many as were disposed to eternal life, believed.'

Again, notice the context of verse 46 with reference to the Jews. 'Ye have put the Gospel from you . . . ' The Israelites missing their opportunity to spread the Gospel to the world was a matter of their personal volition, will, choice and not the alleged, determinism of Almighty God. Contextually and grammatically one has to come to this conclusion apart from Arminius or Calvin.

As to the contextual aspect even a junior high school student would understand this.

[Chris Temple]

James White has magnifciently answered Dave Hunt's embarrassingly poor attack on Calvinism in his "Open Letter to Dave Hunt" at www.aomin.org. (http://www.aomin.org.) Since there is not a link to the specific section of the letter on John 3:16, I reproduce it here:

John 3:16 Freed From Tradition
Dave, I think we can agree on the fact that you believe your interpretation of John 3:16 is the key to the entire controversy. Note I said your interpretation. I do not get the idea that you realize that your view is not the only possible way of reading the words of the Lord Jesus, nor, to be honest, do I get the feeling that you have engaged in the task of exegeting even John 3:16. It is your tradition to interpret it in a particular fashion. That tradition includes two very important elements: 1) the idea that “world” means every single individual person, so that God loves each person equally (resulting in a denial of any particularity in God’s love, even in His redemptive love), and 2) that the term “whosoever” includes within its meaning a denial of particularity or election. Your assumption of these ideas underlies pretty much the entirety of your book.
Before I chose to write you this open letter, I began an article on John 3:16 and Acts 13:48. I only completed the first section of the exegesis of John 3:16, and was about to address your statements about my allegedly “twisting” the passage, so I will insert what I wrote here, and pick up with the letter itself on the other side…

Sometimes the passages we know best we know least. That is, when we hear a passage repeated in a particular context over and over and over again, we tend to lose sight of its real meaning in its original setting. This is surely the case with John 3:16, for it is one of the most commonly cited passages in evangelical preaching. And yet, how often is it actually subjected to exegesis? Hardly ever. Its meaning is assumed rather than confirmed. I would like to offer a brief exegesis of the passage and a confirming cross-reference to a parallel passage in John’s first epistle.

Exegesis
We are uncertain just where in this passage the words of the Lord Jesus end, and John’s begin. Opinions differ. But as John did not believe it necessary to indicate any break, we do not need to be concerned about it. In either case the words flow naturally from the discussion Jesus begins with Nicodemus concerning what it means to be born again, or from above. But as every text without a context is merely a pretext, note the preceding verses:

14 "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.

Jesus harkens back to the incident in the wilderness (Numbers 21:5ff) where the Lord provided a means of healing to the people of Israel. It goes without saying that the serpent was 1) not something the people would have chosen (given that their affliction was bring brought on through serpents); 2) only a means of deliverance for a limited population (i.e., the Jews, not for any outside that community); and 3) was limited in its efficaciousness to those who a) were bitten, b) knew it and recognized it, and c) in faith looked upon the means God had provided for healing. This historical event in the history of Israel (one that would be well known to Nicodemus) is made the type that points, if only as a shadow, to the greater fulfillment in Jesus Christ. The Son of Man was lifted up (on the cross) as God’s means of redemption. Faith is expressed by looking in obedience on the God-given means of salvation.
The phrase “whoever believes” in verse 15 is hina pas ho pisteuwn, which is directly parallel to the same phrase in verse 16 [in fact, the parallel of the first part of the phrase led, in later manuscripts, and in fact in the Majority Text type, to the harmonization of verse 15 with 16, resulting in the expansion of the original. The NASB, however, reflects the more accurate textual reading, “so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life” or “so that whoever believes in Him will have eternal life.”]. The English term “whoever” is meant to communicate “all without distinction in a particular group,” specifically, “those who believe.” Pas means “all” and ho pisteuwn is “the one(s) believing,” hence, “every one believing,” leading to “whoever believes.” It should be remembered that there is no specific word for “whoever” in the Greek text: this comes from the joining of “all” with “the one believing,” i.e., “every one believing.” The point is that all the ones believing have eternal life. There is no such thing as a believing person who will not receive the promised benefit, hence, “whosoever.” This is a common form in John’s writings. For example, in his first epistle he uses it often. Just a few examples:

If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices (Greek: pas ho poiwn) righteousness is born of Him. (1 John 2:29)

One could translate the above phrase as “whoever” or “whosoever practices righteousness.” Likewise,

Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves (Greek: pas ho agapwn) is born of God and knows God. (1 John 4:7)

Likewise one could use “whoever” here as in “”whoever loves is born of God,” etc. And a final relevant example,

Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. (1 John 5:1)

Here, because the phrase begins the sentence, it is normally rendered by “whoever,” since “everyone” does not “flow” as well. So this passage could be rendered “Everyone who is believing.” In each case we see the point being made: the construction pas + articular present nominative singular participle means “all the ones, in particular, doing the action of the participle, i.e., whoever is doing the action of the participle.” What we can determine without question is that the phrase does not in any way introduce some kind of denial of particularlity to the action. That is, the action of the participle defines the group that is acting. The “whoever” does not expand the horizon of the action beyond the limitation of the classification introduced by the participle. This will become important in examining the next section of verses.

16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Verse 16 begins with the assertion that God’s love is the basis of His redemptive work in Jesus Christ. God’s love for the world comes to expression in the sending of His unique Son into the world, and in the provision of eternal life for a specific and limited group. The same delineation and particularity that is found in the last phrase of v. 15 is repeated here.
For a discussion of the meaning of only-begotten Son, or much better, unique Son, see The Forgotten Trinity, pp. 201-203.
The text’s meaning is transparent, though again, the challenge is hearing the text outside of pre-existing traditions. “So” is best understood as “in this manner” or “to this extent” rather than the common “sooooo much.” His love is shown, illustrated, or revealed in His giving of His Son. The Incarnation is an act of grace, but that Incarnation is never seen separately from the purpose of Christ in coming into the world, specifically, providing redemption through faith in Him. Hence, the love of God is demonstrated in the giving of Christ so as to bring about the eternal life of believers.

The Meaning and Extent of kosmos
The great controversy that rages around the term “world” is wholly unnecessary. The wide range of uses of kosmos (world) in the Johannine corpus is well known. John 3:16 does not define the extent of kosmos. However, a few things are certain: it is not the “world” that Jesus says He does not pray for in John 17:9, a “world” that is differentiated from those the Father has given Him: “I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours.” It is not the “world” that is arrayed as an enemy against God’s will and truth, either, as seen in 1 John 2:15: “Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.” Obviously, the “world” we are not to love in 1 John 2:15 is not the world God showed His love toward by sending His unique Son. The most that can be said by means of exegesis (rather than by insertion via tradition) is that the world is shown love through the giving of the Son so that a specific, particular people receive eternal life through faith in Him. Since we know that not all are saved by faith in Christ, it is utterly unwarranted to read into kosmos some universal view of humanity: how is God’s love shown for one who experiences eternal punishment by the provision of salvation for someone else? Surely, then, this is a general use of kosmos, with more specific uses of the term coming in the following verses. That is, the common meaning of world that would have suggested itself to the original readers (Jew and Gentile), and this is born out by the parallel passage in 1 John 4, as we will see below.

Whoever Believes
See comments above regarding the meaning of pas ho pisteuwn. There is no phrase or term here that indicates a universal ability to believe as is so often assumed by those reading this passage. The present tense of the participle should be emphasized, however. John’s use of the present tense “believe” is very significant, especially in light of his use of the aorist to refer to false believers. The ones who receive eternal life are not those who believe once, but those who have an on-going faith. This is his common usage in the key soteriological passages (John 3, 6, 10). When one examines Christ’s teaching concerning who it is that truly believes in this fashion we discover that it is those who are given to Him by the Father (John 6:37-39) who come to Him and who believe in Him in saving fashion.
Verse 18 continues the point by insisting that the one believing in Christ is not condemned/judged (Greek: krinetai). However, the one not believing has been judged already because he has not believed in the name of Christ (both “has been judged” and “has not believed” are perfect tense, indicating a completed action that is not awaiting a future fulfillment). Just as Paul teaches that the wrath of God is continually being revealed against children of wrath, John tells us that the wrath of God abides upon those who do not obey the Son (John 3:36).

Salvation, Not Judgment
Verse 17 expands upon the reason why God sent the Son into the world. The primary purpose was not for condemnation. Given the fact that Jesus speaks often of His role as judge and His coming as something that brings judgment (John 3:19, 5:22, and 9:39), it would be best to render the term “condemnation” in this context. English usage and tradition again conspire to rob the due force of the adversative hina clause: that is, many see “but that the world might be saved” as some kind of weak affirmation, when in fact the idea is, “God did not send the Son for purpose X, but instead, to fulfill purpose Y.” The hina clause expresses God’s purpose in the sending of the Son. It does not contain some kind of sense that “God did this which might result in that, if this happens….” While the subjunctive can be used in conditional sentences, it is also used in purpose/result clauses without the insertion of the idea of doubt or hesitant affirmation. The word “might” then is not to be read “might as in maybe, hopefully, only if other things happen” but “might” as in “I turned on the printer so that I might use it to print out this letter.” Purpose, not lack of certainty.
Of course, this immediately raises another theological question, however. Will God save the world through Christ? If one has inserted the concept of “universal individualism” into “world” in verse 16, and then insists (against John’s regular usage) that the same meaning be carried throughout a passage, such would raise real problems. However, there is no need to do this. When we see the world as the entirety of the kinds of men (Jew and Gentile, or as John expresses it in Revelation 5:9, every “tribe, tongue, people and nation” = world) the passage makes perfect sense. God’s love is demonstrated toward Jew and Gentile in providing a single means of salvation for both (Paul’s main point in Romans 3-4), so too it is that He will accomplish that purpose in the sending of the Son. He will save “the world,” that is, Jews and Gentiles.

A Parallel Passage

1 John 4:7-10 7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9 By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

This passage provides us with a tremendous commentary, from John himself, on the passage we have just examined from his Gospel. The repetition of key phrases in the same contexts show us how closely related the two passages are. Both passages speak of God’s love; both speak of God’s sending of His Son and how this is a manifestation of God’s love; both speak of life and the forgiveness of sin, often using the very same words John used to record John 3:16ff. So how did the Apostle John understand those words? Here we are given that insight.
The context of this passage is love among believers. Love comes from God, and it is natural for the one who has been born of God to love. The redeemed person loves because God is love, and those who know God seek to be like Him. Those who do not walk in love are betraying any claim they may make to know Him. This brings us to the key verses, 9-10.
The fact that verse nine is meant to be a restatement of John 3:16 can be seen by placing them in parallel to one another:

John 3:16 For God so loved the world
1 John 4:9 By this the love of God was manifested in us

John 3:16 that He gave His only begotten Son
1 John 4:9 that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world

John 3:16 that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life
1 John 4:9 so that we might live through Him

Once we see the clear connection, and recognize the background of John’s words, we can use 1 John 4:9 to shed light upon some of the key issues regarding the proper interpretation of John 3:16ff. For example, we concluded above that “world” meant the world of humanity, i.e., Jew and Gentile taken in kind and not in universal particularity (each and every person). This is confirmed by John’s rephrasing here, “By this the love of God was manifested to us.” The “us” in this immediate context is identified in verse 7, “Beloved, let us love one another,” i.e., the Christian fellowship, which is made up of Jews and Gentiles. Further, the issue of the intention of God in sending the Son is further illuminated by noting the teaching of 1 John as well. That is, John 3:17 says it was the Father’s intention to save the world through Christ. This we know Christ accomplished (Revelation 5:9-10) by saving men from every tribe, tongue, people and nation (this comprising the same group seen in John 6:37 who are given by the Father to the Son). 1 John 4:10 summarizes the entire work of God by saying that God’s love is shown in His sending Christ as the propitiation for our sins. This is paralleled here with verse 9, “God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him.” This helps to explain the oft-cited words of 1 John 2:2. The “whole world” of 1 John 2:2 would carry the same meaning we have already seen: the whole world of Jew and Gentile. The thrust of 1 John 2:2 is that there are more who will experience the benefit of Christ’s propitiatory death than just the current Christian communion. The message continues to move out into the world, and as it does so, God draws His elect unto Himself, those that He joined to Jesus Christ so that His death is their death, His resurrection their resurrection. But in none of these passages do we find any reference to a work of Christ that is non-specific and universal with reference to individuals, let alone one that is not perfectly accomplished. God’s manifestation of His love does not fail.

[russell55]

I used about three sources. The easiest to understand for laymen is "The Interlinear Greek-English New Testament." Zondervan Publishing House. p. 527 . . . Acts 13:48. 'And as many as were disposed to eternal life, believed.'An interlinear is really not the best source for word meanings. I'd really like to see it in something more authoritative than that. No source I have looked at uses that definition, and every single translation of scripture I have looked at uses either "ordained" or " appointed".

But lets assume for a second that "disposed" is a legitimate definition of the word, okay? You seem to be assuming that the definition of disposed is "to have a tendency toward" or something like that. But it also can mean "to set in place, to arrange", can it not? Since "to set in place, to arrange" is a definition I find for "tasso" in every source I look at, I would assume that that is more likely the definition intended.

Furthermore, being in the passive tense, the action of the verb is received by the object. Someone else has "disposed" or "arranged" them to eternal life--it is not something they do to themselves.

Again, notice the context of verse 46 with reference to the Jews. 'Ye have put the Gospel from you . . . ' The Israelites missing their opportunity to spread the Gospel to the world was a matter of their personal volition, will, choiceOf course!

and not the alleged, determinism of Almighty God.You are right, this passage and this context deals only with the willfull choice on the rejection side of things.

But let's look at the belief side of things. Look at verse 48 again, and I'll even let you have "disposed" as the meaning for "tasso":

"and as many as had been disposed to eternal life believed."

Here are two conclusions we can draw from the grammar:

1. The disposing (or arranging or setting in place) is an action they receive--it is done to them by someone else, and it is done to them before they believe. (verb tense)

2. Every single one of those who had been disposed, believed. The number of those who had been disposed
determined the number who believed. The disposition (an action performed by someone else upon them) is the logical cause of the belief.

[ May 20, 2002, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: russell55 ]

[Ray Berrian]

Dr. James Strong in his "Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible also uses the definition also as to ‘having been disposed to eternal life,' along with other definitions. I have no problem with God saying that all who He ordained---believed. God from eternity past knew who His elect people would be, or otherwise, He becomes a God Who is not omnscient. This is the overview from God's perspective.

While reading Acts thirteen one has to understand the total context as to whole issue. In verse 39 the Word of God says that ‘ . . . by Him all who believe are justified from all things.' Salvation in order to be affected in human beings must be received by faith. The act of believing and having faith is the response of people who have been convicted of their sins and have acquiesced to His sovereignty. Let it be said strongly, that neither believing or trusting in Jesus --from our side of things creates salvation through our efforts. [Isaiah 42:8c] ‘My glory I will not give to another . . . ' The grace of God is what or Who saves lost people. [Ephesians 2:8] Believing, faith and or trust in Jesus is not a work in the sense that we count these three concepts as contributing to our salvation. [Isaiah 42:8c] Believing, faith and trust in Jesus is His claim on all lost people. [Acts 17:30; I Timothy 2:4 & 6]

Then in verse 46d the Word says that the Israelite people had rejected the opportunity to first of all save their own people, and secondly, to be the standard bearer of the Gospel. Notice, of their own free will ‘ . . . (they) put it from (themselves).' They had put the hope of the Gospel far from their reach as a nation of people. It was His will to make them the elect nation. [John 1:11] but He in His permissive will allowed them to turn away from His cherish wish for His own nationality. When they made known their intentions, God turned to the Apostle Paul as ‘ . . . a light to the Gentiles.' [vs. 47]

While God has perfect control of history and on into eternity, I recall that Satan is the ‘ . . . god of this world.' While the Holy Spirit is at work we also see the power that the Evil One is exhibiting in our present world especially through the unsaved of humanity. What I am saying is while it is His will that all would enjoy eternal life with Him, ‘wishing all people to be saved' [I Timothy 2:4] it will never happen. Therefore, in a real sense His will has been hampered because of the delegated, sovereign, dominion of Christ that has been wielded in our world through this fallen angel who has been named in Revelation 20:2. In this way humankind is being tested as to who they want to worship and where they desire to spend eternity.