Candidating

[Joy]

Our church is a year old, and we are about to have a candidate in for the office of the senior pastor. If you have had the experience of candidating yourself, or have been on a board, please share some thoughts about it. I would especially like to know the best questions to ask.

[DocCas]

In my experience, the Pulpit Committee, or Board, is a perfect example of the old adage, "A committee is the only animal in creation with 10 stomaches and no brain!" smile.gif

When I was examined by the Pulpit Committee for my present pastorate 16 years ago, they asked me some of the most stupid questions I have ever heard, but failed to ask me the most important question, whether or not I was saved. They wanted to know about my education, my experience, my doctrine, my hobbies, my family, my preaching style, etc., etc., etc., ad infinitum, ad nauseum, but never thought to ask if I was saved!

Every church, prior to calling a pastor, should write out a Philosophy of Ministry and use it as a guide in questioning a prospective pastor. Finding out prior to issuing a call whether or not he has the same Philosophy of Ministry the church has will save a lot of heart ache a year or two down the road.

Good luck, and God bless! smile.gif

[ May 14, 2001: Message edited by: Thomas Cassidy ]

[Joy]

Would you give me an example of a Philosopy of Ministry? What sort of questions should we as a church be asking ourselves in order to come up with what our philosopy is?

[Pastor Steve]

First of all, when considering a candidate, I hope that you folk have done your homework. I am amazed at churches that ask a man to canidate without checking their references. You need to look at the man's track record and if possible speak to former deacons about this man's ministry.

During your questioning, you need to know certain things. Is the man orthedox in doctrine? Is the candidate's philosophy of ministry the same as that of the church? Are there any hobby horses that will limit this man's ministry in your community? And since you are in Wisconsin, can he hunt and fish? smile.gif Don't just consider the 2 or 3 sermons that will be preached but look at the person as a whole (I even have 5 or 6 good sermons)

Ask a few questions that will put him on the spot a bit to determine his temprament and how he reacts under pressure.

Above all, determine to set aside a season of prayer. Both corporate and private prayer should be offered to determine as to whether this is God's man or not. You are not looking for a nice guy, a popular person, not even a good looking person (although that all would be nice) You are looking for God's man to lead your church. You will not find it unless you spend some time before the throne. Be assured that we will be praying in this direction as well.

[DocCas]

To see a copy of my Philosophy of Ministry click on http://members.tripod.com/~ThomasCassidy/pom.html .

Remember, this is my Philosophy of Ministry. There is no "right" or "wrong" regarding this issue. This is simply how I think on the subject. Others may think differently. That is why a written Philosophy of Ministry is so important. The pulpit committee can compare the church's Philosophy of Ministry with the candidate's Philosophy of Ministry and determine if the two are compatable.

[ May 15, 2001: Message edited by: Thomas Cassidy ]

[Dr. Bob]

I work with mission churches or closed churches, so help them seek candidates and evaluate them. Never found any as good as me! :rolleyes:

1. Screen Applicants – First Cut
~ Educational background for ministry?
~ Good stewardship of educational years?
~ Experience in the pastorate?
~ Opportunity to develop specific skills you think needed for church?
~ Age, family compatible?
~ Stability of work history?

2. Screen Applicants – Second Cut
~ Of the above “Possible” Candidates who pass the first cut, confirm him as one of “Finalist”
~ Make sure he is still interested
~ Get two cassette tapes of messages for people to evaluate
~ Visit his church and hear/watch his ministry
~ two/three-hour detailed interview. Ask questions about - salvation, family, call, people who have influenced, summary of experience in ministry, leadership style, theological views, Baptist distinctives, sermon preparation, counseling, visitation, Bible versions, divorce/remarriage, social role of church, standards of conduct, separation – him and family, spiritual life, family life, professional growth,
~ Ask wife questions of her role, conversion, experience, life in church
~ Allow Candidate to question you!
~ Find tentative agreement on best of the “finalists”

3. Screening Applicants – Third Cut
~ Have only ONE finalist - not a beauty contest!
~ Present him to congregation for weekend, not just one sermon
~ Announce vote as pastoral candidate (Constitutional requirements)
~ Vote one week AFTER candidate (much like “dating” is to “marriage”; it is good to have some time to think about this)
~ If called, please have congregation keep quiet about it until the new pastor can notify HIS church of leaving.

[Joy]

Boy, you were right about the stupid questions! I am still floored at one busybody who asked the poor man what salary he was accustomed to living! Like my husband said, "What does that have to do with the price of eggs in China?!" :rolleyes:

Anyway, I am impressed with the man's level of maturity and character, and his Philosophy of Ministry matched ours pretty well. I am leaning towards voting "yes" for him to come. continue to be in prayer for Faith Baptist, as this is a big and important step in our ministry.

[Don]

Actually, Joy, that was a good question. The answer given by the individual tells a lot about him. (see the thread titled "nobody wants a free pastor!")

You see, if the individual is focused on money, instead of the ministry, what seems like stupid questions can actually bear a lot of fruit.

For instance, a church I attended had a pastor who held a second job. The church wanted him to become a full time pastor. In retrospect, I now realize that it wasn't the church that wanted him to go full time, it was he himself who wanted to go full time (a worthy goal), but was influencing certain members of the church to influence everyone else in the church to ask him to go full time. Anyway, his #1 condition for going full time was that the church had to pay him a salary of at least $20,000. This church had a main core membership of about 10-15 families, with maybe two families grossing over $25,000 a year. The church agreed, and he went full time. Just the other day, I found out he's taken a second job again, because the church has actually lost membership and can't fully support him any more.

See, his initial demand showed that money was more important than actually being a full time paster. So I don't see that person's question as being silly at all, and having a LOT to do with eggs in China.

[Joy]

Don, I appreciate your perspective, I guess you had to be there to understand my concerns. This person actually has tried several times to control the $ of our church, and has no right to do so. They frequently propose all kinds of un-necessary controls and cuts to the budget, which usually get voted down. This person is a busybody in our church. During the questioning, and many times before in the candidates ministering to us, he has given us a clear testimony of how God changed his materialistic desires in life to a life that pleases only the Lord. He left a high paying job to go to Bible college and has lived on minimum part time wages for many years in order to accomplish his goal of getting to the ministry. I believe his motives to be pure. These facts had already been established to us. Perhaps it could've been asked in private by the deacons, or in a more discreet manner. I guess you had to be there. Everyone else in the room was embarrassed for him, and couldn't believe that this busybody got so bold. Unfortunately, it wasn't about the man's willingness to serve or perhaps be a little underpaid, it was a question of control. Again, you would've had to be there to discern this.

One should be able to discern a man's motives in life and whether or not materialism is a problem without knowing $ amounts. People who make 20,000 a year can be materialistic, and those who make 100,000 may not be.

By the way, I believe that it would be wrong for a pastor to "get rich" off of his congregation, but it is equally wrong to force a man to suffer and struggle for the sake of control-especially when a congregation can afford to give him a decent living wage. Pastors work just as hard if not harder for their $ as laymen do.

[dfd2]

Joy,

If a pastor is fulfilling his duties as a biblical elder of his church there is no question that he will definitely by far work harder than anyone else. Unfortunaltey alot of people do not realize this.

[Don]

I agree, Joy, and in your case, it definitely was a different situation. Please remember: In the case I cited, it was the pastor asking for a certain amount before he would go full-time, instead of the situation you have in your church.

And actually, it was good that this individual asked your candidate that question. Because now he knows a little bit more about the people he's candidating for, as well as them knowing something more about him....

[Squire Robertsson]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Don:
And actually, it was good that this individual asked your candidate that question. Because now he knows a little bit more about the people he's candidating for, as well as them knowing something more about him....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And sometimes it is a good thing for a prospective shepherd to know something about the below the surface reality of his prospective flock. It sounds like Joy's canidate has worked to hard to have to blindly deal this kind of guff. On the other hand, every church has at least one of this type in her membership. But better to have some kind of idea of the lay of the land.

[changed_like_saul]

Hello,

i guess my biggest concern about this topic is the question of what type of education do you have.......is that an important question?

after Saul became Paul what college did he go to? the most powerful preacher, next to Christ, that has ever lived. did not go to college.

i believe if God wants an educated man He will call one. some of the most powerful preachers of this day have been back woods unable to read farmers and lumber jacks which God has called to preach the Good News of Jesus Christ.

now, i'm not saying that a man should not be studied...yes, a man, the husband of one wife, should study God's word and pray for understanding! a degree in theology does not qualify a person to the ministry. God does the calling and He does not make mistakes.

does scripture say anything about schooling...no.....but it does say in 1 Timothy 3 beginning is verse......
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

i'm not trying to be rude or thoughtless, but these verses say nothing about schooling!! furthermore, in 2 Timothy 2 and verse.....

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

God's word say study to shew thyself approved unto God......if we as ministers of the gospel do as scripture tells us....God will use His ministers to boldly and with power proclaim the gospel of Christ.


next........

so what happens if you have 30 students being instructed by person who has an error in their doctrine? would it not be better to have a single "student" with 30 teachers?
that way if there arose a problem with doctrineit would be caught and corrected before it spred like wild fire.

all i'm saying is......God calls His ministers and He never makes a mistake!!!

[DocCas]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by changed_like_saul:
after Saul became Paul what college did he go to? the most powerful preacher, next to Christ, that has ever lived. did not go to college.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>On the contrary, Paul was one of the best educated of the New Testament preachers. He had the equivilent of a Doctorate in the "the law of the fathers" having studied under Gamaliel (Acts 22:3).

After his salvation he spent three years in the best Seminary on earth, in the wilderness alone with the Lord (Gal 1:17-18). smile.gif

[TomVols]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Thomas Cassidy:
On the contrary, Paul was one of the best educated of the New Testament preachers. He had the equivilent of a Doctorate in the "the law of the fathers" having studied under Gamaliel (Acts 22:3).

After his salvation he spent three years in the best Seminary on earth, in the wilderness alone with the Lord (Gal 1:17-18). smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excellent points. It's not about education, but preparation. You can be fitly prepared for ministry through education but some are prepared and continue to prepare even though they have no formal education. I've always thought it odd that most people would not settle for a doctor or mechanic who had no training, but when it comes to the one who shepherd's the flock of God, any old thing will do :confused:

[changed_like_saul]

On the contrary, Paul was one of the best educated of the New Testament preachers. He had the equivilent of a Doctorate in the "the law of the fathers" having studied under Gamaliel (Acts 22:3).

Dear Brother Cassidy,

i beg to differ with you on the statement that Paul was the best educated of the New Testament preachers......Paul was educated in the "LAW" of the Old Testament. yes, Paul was highly educated in the was of the Jewish Laws and Traditions.

Paul education in the Good News Of Jesus Christ came by direct revelation from Jesus Christ Himself. not a college or seminary. i believe God still calls His ministers and Christ reveals to them what he would have them to know.......please understand, i'm not saying that Christ opens our skull and pours in information. we have a responsiblility to pray, read and study God's word. remember, scriptures says "study to shew thyself approved unto God..."

may the Lord bless

Chris

[Don]

TomVols, just to throw this out--how does homeschooling fit into your "preparation to be a mechanic or a doctor" supposition?

Changed, you didn't contradict anything Dr. Cassidy presented. Instead, you supported it. At the same time, I don't believe Dr. Cassidy said that your premise--that we don't need seminary--was entirely wrong.

I think the thing that everyone's agreed on is study and preparation.

[changed_like_saul]

Hey, i'm not trying to start an argument. but i do have a question.

if you were on the "pupit committee" of your church, would you consider a candadate who has not been to the siminary?

if you would consider a candadate who has not been to the siminary, would your church/congregation select such a candadate?

[DocCas]

I would not reject a candidate who had not been to seminary out of hand, but I would reject a candidate who could not spell "seminary!" :D

[KeeperOfMyHome]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Thomas Cassidy:
[QB]I would reject a candidate who could not spell "seminary!"

Don't you mean "cemetary" Doc? smile.gif hehehehe :D ;)

[PreacherDave]

Just want to put in my two bits (hmmm...25 cents doesn't go far nowadays). For a pulpit committee to consider a man for the position of pastor of God's church, it is utmost importance to go to God's Word first, last and in-between.
The qualifications are clearly outlined in Scripture. For example, 1 Tim. 3 says a bishop (Biblical elder, the plurality of which has no hierarchical position--as in Senior Pastor, Episcopalian rankings, Presbyterian two-office eldership, etc.)must be blameless. As a board you must define "blameless" Biblically and use it as a screening source. This must be done for all of the qualifications listed here and in other Scripture passages regarding pastoral qualifications (i.e. Acts 20:28-31; 1 Thess. 2:4-12; Titus 1:6-9).
I noticed in previous posts practical issues of pastor-congregational relationship, but honestly a caring pastor who is apt to preach & teach should become endeared by the congregation anyway.
David Wells book, No Place For Truth, would be a good book to read for the vocational position of pastor versus the "professional" pastor.
Horatio Bonar's book, Words for Winners of Souls should be read by every member of the pulpit committee; and by each pastoral candidate.
Seminary, although invaluable for its training in Scripture doesn't always provide a proper atmosphere for pastoral training. I found in my experience that the academic was elevated far above the heart, creating an atmosphere of sterility & pride.
I believe a pastor can and should train up young men for the ministry. There should be time and financial support given so the man of God is free to not only preach on Sundays, but also disciple young men for the ministry. He must also be given to hospitality and visitation (all members of the church; but especially the sick, the shut-ins, the imprisoned, the bereaved...) In this way he imitates Christ, the Good Shepherd, who personally cares for each sheep.

[changed_like_saul]

okay okay i can not spell and i know it.......forgive me? smile.gif


i have real difficulty with a church/congregation that will not consider as their minister a man that has not been to sEminary ( :D ). scripture does not say anywhere a man has to go to a school to be an Elder/Bishop. scripture does say he must be called of God.

my pastor has not been to seminary, in fact his education is in the paper industry, he's an engineer and hold a masters. he has been called by the Lord to preach the gospel. his gift is obvious when he is in the pulpit. to say he is not educated in scripture is a far cry from the truth. he is studied, self studied.....he was under the council of many Elder before he was ordained and he was tried in the pulpit for quite some time before he was ordained.

the thought behind this type of "schooling" is as follows:
A) this is the very way the early minister of the gospel came up, i.e. Timothy/Titus

B) Proverbs 11 and verse...
14 ¶ Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

C) to prove there is a gift to preach.


the only thing worse than someone trying to preach that does not have the gift is someone who has the gift and does not use it.

[Circuitrider]

I see our thread about candidating has narrowed down to a discussion about seminary training. C_l_s, a point to remember is that God's calling and preparation is paramount, but biblical training in the Scriptures is a priceless blessing. Two great preachers in my life and ministry were both local church evangelists who had not had formal education:
* Paul Levin - started preaching at age 15 and finished HS by correspondence and yet there were many trained preachers who could not teach the doctrine like Paul (Paul Levin). Dr. Bill Rice of Bill Rice Ranch said that Paul Levin still preaching at BRRanch in his 70s was the greatest youth speaker in America.
* Keith Ward - started out as a police officer in WY and CA and upon salvation was called into evangelism. He was self trained and an avid reader of excellent books written by older pastors of the past generations. His teaching and writing were doctrinally sound and biblical.

However, these men are the execeptions. Most of us lack the ability and the drive to be self-students of the Word, and so Bible college and Seminary are necessary options for preparation for ministry. I thank God for 10 years of formal training in addition to 30 years of the experience in the ministry. :D

[Circuitrider]

Joy2, we are praying for God's clear direction for you and your church as you pursue God's will and man for your church. As you may know we have a personal interest in FBC of Portage. ;)