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View Full Version : Is there ANY present evangelist that is acceptable to the Baptist Board?


LadyEagle
11-24-2004, 11:35 AM
Just wondering, since there seems to be quite a long rather dismal list running on the Board of so-called heretics, etc., of people who profess to be evangelists and profess to be our Brothers and Sisters in Christ, who don't seem to meet the BB criteria of saints. :rolleyes:

Charles Meadows
11-24-2004, 12:04 PM
Good point Lady Eagle!

Maybe the more rigid ones would agree that Paul was a true Christian evangelist. But they'd probably find fault with him too! And that Jesus guy - way too liberal! Too forgiving!

:rolleyes: graemlins/laugh.gif

Debby in Philly
11-24-2004, 12:36 PM
Couldn't agree more! graemlins/thumbs.gif
I won't mention the names of these men of God, but someone always has something to say about every well-known one that is brought up! Where's the idea we hear so often that if just one soul is led to the Kingdom as a result of one's work, it is worth it?

gb93433
11-24-2004, 12:44 PM
Remember Jesus was viewed as a liberal too.

Matthew 12:1-5, "At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples became hungry and began to pick the heads of grain and eat. But when the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, "Look, Your disciples do what is not lawful to do on a Sabbath." But He said to them, "Have you not read what David did when he became hungry, he and his companions, how he entered the house of God, and they ate the consecrated bread, which was not lawful for him to eat nor for those with him, but for the priests alone? "Or have you not read in the Law, that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and are innocent.

Jesus was called a liberal and a hyper fundamentalist. He was condemned by both groups. He still is today. Neither group knows what to do with Him. Jesus is too radical for both groups. He has not called us to be conservative. He has called us to be radical Christians.

Marcia
11-24-2004, 03:50 PM
I thought the question was about a present evangelist?

As for being "rigid," I don't think it's rigid to reject teachings that go against God's word.

How many well-known evangelists are there today? I would say Ravi Zacharias and Tony Palau are two that seem to be sound in their preaching.

I can't really think of that many evangelists.

Mark Bishop
11-24-2004, 04:02 PM
Here's a few..

Carl Hatch
Jerry Monday
Frazier Young
Clyde Box

smile.gif

Marcia
11-24-2004, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by Mark Bishop:
Here's a few..

Carl Hatch
Jerry Monday
Frazier Young
Clyde Box

smile.gif Never heard of them, Mark! Are these all Baptist evangelists or from other churches? Do they preach around the country?

Gina B
11-24-2004, 04:22 PM
Ravi Zacharias and Tim Lee.
Gina

Debby in Philly
11-24-2004, 04:41 PM
No, everybody's favorite to trash is Billy Graham. Can't we show some respect at least?

Joseph_Botwinick
11-24-2004, 05:05 PM
Truthfully, I can't think of one right now.

I don't trust any of them right now.

Joseph Botwinick

C4K
11-24-2004, 05:25 PM
I am not big on the role of the revivalist. Too often for my taste they have become "glamour boys" of the ministry.

No need to reply with an attack. This IS NOT a condemnation of all evangalists, just a personal observation.

gb93433
11-24-2004, 05:44 PM
I have not seen Luis Palau get any criticism yet. Have you?

StraightAndNarrow
11-24-2004, 06:29 PM
Billy Graham. This man has been faithful to the Lord for 56 years and has preached to more people than anyone else in history. It looks like he's going to die in the pulpit. He's a GREAT man of God.

LadyEagle
11-24-2004, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by StraightAndNarrow:
Billy Graham. This man has been faithful to the Lord for 56 years and has preached to more people than anyone else in history. It looks like he's going to die in the pulpit. He's a GREAT man of God. Well, I agree with you, but Billy Graham doesn't meet BB approval, so we can't count him "in." :rolleyes:

LadyEagle
11-24-2004, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by gb93433:
I have not seen Luis Palau get any criticism yet. Have you? Oh, yes. It's on the Internet, branded as a heretic, along with the rest of them, and not only that, he's a Promise Keepers "promoter." :eek:

Grasshopper
11-24-2004, 09:04 PM
I wonder what LadyEagle would call an evangelist who was an A-Mill or Post-mill who taught that God has been through with the nation of Israel for 2000 years? Hmmm

LadyEagle
11-24-2004, 09:06 PM
Misguided. And I would pray the Holy Spirit would convict him. smile.gif

Pastor Larry
11-24-2004, 10:28 PM
Where's the idea we hear so often that if just one soul is led to the Kingdom as a result of one's work, it is worth it?It's not worth it. To put it the way God did, Obedience is better than sacrifice and to harken than the fat of rams. God wants your obedience, not your success. Evangelists who disobey God are to be exposed and separated from. Why is the biblical teaching and loyalty to the word of God so missing in our modern Baptist churches? We seem to have a generation of people who have no idea what God said, and are not being taught discernment in these matters. All they look at is speech and numbers. There is no discerning look at obedience.

To answer the question, why not do the biblical thing and train the evangelists in our churches to go out and share the gospel. This traveling revivalist is certainly not a biblical office. You don't see Paul or the apostles doing it. When they went somewhere, they spent time teaching and training. Let's do it God's way and do evangelism through the local church.

Plain Old Bill
11-25-2004, 01:32 AM
Well I've heard Carl Hatch and Tim Lee preach.I liked thier sermons and they have a heart for souls.

Dr. Bob
11-25-2004, 01:54 AM
Tim is a dear friend I've known for years. Dynamic preaching, heavy Bible content rather than 1 verse and 20 stories to stir emotion. When he shares what God did at a meeting, it is exciting to hear.

(He words it like "8 of God's elect responded to the Gospel message and repented and put their faith in Christ". To a Calvinist like me, that cheers my heart!!)

av1611jim
11-25-2004, 02:08 AM
Ken Blue
Rick Sowell
Rick DeMichelle
Tim Green
Sam Gipp

Then again, these guys would NOT be accepted here. Thank God they don't have to be. And they did not ask permission of Baptists before they went out to preach to the lost. Had they done so, I suppose they would have been denied, and thousands of souls would most likely never heard the gospel.

So... to address the OP, I doubt that THIS Baptist Board could 100% agree on ANY evangelist, (based on what I have seen. graemlins/tear.gif )

In His service;
Jim

Mark Bishop
11-25-2004, 03:20 AM
Originally posted by Marcia:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Mark Bishop:
Here's a few..

Carl Hatch
Jerry Monday
Frazier Young
Clyde Box

smile.gif Never heard of them, Mark! Are these all Baptist evangelists or from other churches? Do they preach around the country? </font>[/QUOTE]hmmm.. Carl still preaches.. as his health allows.
I'm kinda bummed that I didn't get to hear him Tuesday..
life intervened *sigh*
Perhaps I can get a tape of it.

Jerry used to go all over the place but is now
in a pastorate in W. Va.
I believe he still gets out occasionally though. smile.gif
He was preaching the night my boy got saved.. smile.gif

Brother Young.. is an Evangelist based out of
Australia.. currently over here to see his son
who came over for Bible College.. My Pastor found
out he was passing through Dallas last Sunday... smile.gif
So I got to hear him preach. smile.gif good stuff there.

I've heard Brother Box preach a couple of times
as well.. he preaches it straight too. smile.gif

oh.. to answer your question Marcia.. yes. they
are all baptists.

mark

C4K
11-25-2004, 04:59 AM
Originally posted by Pastor Larry:

To answer the question, why not do the biblical thing and train the evangelists in our churches to go out and share the gospel. This traveling revivalist is certainly not a biblical office. You don't see Paul or the apostles doing it. When they went somewhere, they spent time teaching and training. Let's do it God's way and do evangelism through the local church. Well said, PL! I agree 100%.

Ben W
11-25-2004, 05:13 AM
Adrian Rogers,

Charles Swindoll.

Dr. Bob
11-25-2004, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by av1611jim:
Sam Gipp graemlins/laugh.gif graemlins/laugh.gif Thanks for the good humor on this Thanksgiving Day! graemlins/laugh.gif graemlins/laugh.gif

Plain Old Bill
11-25-2004, 02:43 PM
I've heard Ken Blue on the radio when I lived in Everett.Is he still a pastor over there.I watch Adrian Rodgers every Sunday early morning.

mickd7
11-25-2004, 05:26 PM
What you really mean is the IFB of the BB does not accept Billy Graham. Well I am a SBC and a member of the BB and he is very much acceptable to me. He is the greatest evangelist that ever walked this earth and those without sin please cast the first stone at this great man of God.

Another acceptable one is
Franklin Graham.
And where have you been. We are in the Gentile dispensation and have been for the past 2000 years and the Jews are out right now but will be back in one day soon.
Of course individual Jews can accept Christ...

fireweed59
11-25-2004, 09:52 PM
With regards to LadyEagle and the rest of this discussion, I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that BaptistBoard does not have a spokesperson or committee who approve or disapprove of certain evanglists. What we are seeing and perhaps really saying is it appears that many on BB approve or disapprove of certain evangelists. We would well remind ourselves these are the oppinions of those who post here.

I have heard Dr. Hatch and Tim Lee and can say that they do teach the churches about winning the lost and sharing the Gospel so I'm not sure I understand the point of contemporary "revivalists" not teaching and equiping the church to spread the Gospel.

Anyone know how Carl Hatch is health-wise? How about Tim Lee, is he still in ministry?

Gina B
11-25-2004, 10:41 PM
Yes, Tim Lee's still in the ministry. Visit http://www.timlee.org
He visited our church last year, so was nice to hear him live and it was good.
He also is a very sweet person, and helped my family be able to consult a lawyer over a situation we had a couple years ago.
Gina

StraightAndNarrow
11-28-2004, 09:12 PM
Tony Campolo.

joyfulkeeperathome
11-30-2004, 04:03 AM
Clyde Box - wow, I haven't heard that name in quite some time! Excellent speaker, gave it to us straight!!!

cindig
11-30-2004, 03:43 PM
Ben,
You named two of my personal favorites. I listen to Adrian on my comp. all of the time. I only live 2 hrs. from his church and visit there often, it is a real treat. He is retiring in the Spring, but still going to keep Love Worth Finding. Someone has some huge shoes to fill!

Fat Eagle,
I agree 100% with you!
One more is Charles Stanley.
David Jeremiah.

A fantastic site is oneplace.com, you can click on many messages, from many different pastors and hear their preaching.

mickd7
11-30-2004, 04:00 PM
Thanks cindig.


Is anyone out there old enough to remember Oliver Green. He was a great evangelist. His brother also could preach.

av1611jim
11-30-2004, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by Dr. Bob:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by av1611jim:
Sam Gipp graemlins/laugh.gif graemlins/laugh.gif Thanks for the good humor on this Thanksgiving Day! graemlins/laugh.gif graemlins/laugh.gif </font>[/QUOTE]I seriously doubt you have ever heard the man preach, so go ahead and laugh.
Should I ever get the chance to here YOU preach, I hope it will be equally hilarious. graemlins/laugh.gif graemlins/laugh.gif :D
In His service;
Jim

Circuitrider
11-30-2004, 07:50 PM
One of the great evangelists of the 20th century was Paul Levin. Dr. Bill Rice, founder of the Bill Rice Ranch had Paul at the Ranch for the last 25-30 years of Levin's ministry and he said, "Paul Levin is the best youth evangelist in the country." Paul Levin would have been in his 60s or 70s during most of that time, but he could relate to young people.

Circuitrider
11-30-2004, 07:52 PM
What evangelist are acceptable? Who cares what the BB constituency says? What matters is the local church. Over my 30 years of pastoral ministry I had some good men, who using the office of evangelist challenged and strengthened my church. graemlins/thumbs.gif

cindig
11-30-2004, 10:13 PM
Fat Eagle,
I am surprised that you are the same one on the Batistcostal sight, and you wrote preachers like Adrian Rogers. But that is great, cause Adrian is wonderful, I learn so much when I listen to him.
&lt;{{{&gt;&lt;

blackbird
11-30-2004, 11:42 PM
One evangelist I like to listen to is Brother Bailey Smith--former pastor of First Southern Baptist of Del City, Oklahoma

Also---Bill Stafford, Sam Cathey, Junior Hill, & Bill Sturm

Roy
12-01-2004, 12:10 AM
I've heard Bailey Smith and he was exceptionally inspiring.

On the lighter side, how's Ernest Angly getting along these days? Haven't seen or heard much from him since the 80s.

Roy

LadyEagle
12-01-2004, 12:19 AM
graemlins/laugh.gif

Dr. Bob
12-01-2004, 02:08 AM
Originally posted by Circuitrider:
Paul Levin would have been in his 60s or 70s during most of that time, but he could relate to young people. I was blessed by Paul as a young man. And Bob Findlay, the blind singer and mandolin player who traveled with Paul.

Think they made "The Hornet Song" popular!

5xBlessed
12-01-2004, 02:59 AM
My favorites are Adrian Rogers and John MacArthur? Can anyone point me in the direction of anyone else similar to these two? I'd love to have someone new to add to my list of favorites.

Lucy

fireweed59
12-01-2004, 06:38 AM
Originally posted by Fat Eagle:
Thanks cindig.


Is anyone out there old enough to remember Oliver Green. He was a great evangelist. His brother also could preach. Yes, brother Oliver Green of the Old Time Gospel Hour, his books are also a worthwhile read. I like his scripture referencing writing style.

Has anyone out there ever heard of these two? Paul Forrest out of Virginia and Clyde Kendall?
Great preachers of the Word both of them.

AVL1984
12-01-2004, 12:30 PM
Paul Levin (now with the Lord) and his sidekick Bro. Findlay.

Tim Lee, a friend and excellent evangelist.

I remember my mother listening to Oliver B. Greene when I was a child.

untangled
12-01-2004, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by Circuitrider:
What evangelist are acceptable? Who cares what the BB constituency says? What matters is the local church. Over my 30 years of pastoral ministry I had some good men, who using the office of evangelist challenged and strengthened my church. graemlins/thumbs.gif graemlins/thumbs.gif Amen Circuit.

mickd7
12-01-2004, 05:48 PM
cindig: I am not choosy for I like to hear preachers across the board as we can learn from each other . Believe it or not we can learn from many folks out there. Why even J Fulton Sheen had some good words back in the good ole days.
I watch James Kennedy each week as well as Jerry Falwell and I love the teachings of Hal Lindsey.
I think David Wilkerson of The Cross and the Switchblade fame was great also.

Johnv
12-01-2004, 06:16 PM
I remember the late Fulton Sheen. I must concur. Didn't agree with everything, but overall, he was great at delivering Gospel-centered messages that drive straight to the heart.

I love D James Kennedy. Though he is frequently guilty of revisionist history from the pulpit, his spiritual message is inspiring and insightful.

I don't get Falwell here (youd think the greater Los Angeles area wiuld be a financially worthwhile market), but remember his Old Time Gospel Hour from years past. I agreed with him on some things, but disagreed with im on others. On the whole, he was great.

There's a local pastor named Dr Jim Reeve who is dynamic and awesome, who's on here every Saturday morning. Has anone else seen him?

There are two other people who I think are very good in certain areas, but other people on the board don't like these folks, so they will remain nameless. Heck, you can't say "I like Billy Graham" here without getting your salvation judged. (you can im me is you want to know)

I no longer watch Hal Lindsey. He's gone from being an incorrect predicter of the end times to a carbon copy of Jack Van Impe, imo. Not that he's an evil guy or anything, he's just not my cup o'tea. If you get something out of him, then more power to ya smile.gif

untangled
12-01-2004, 10:51 PM
I know one....


Benny Hinn. He's a real winner.

Just kidding.....

Ben W
12-02-2004, 04:37 AM
David Wilkerson who founded Teen Challenge is still going and pastoring a church near Times Square New York.

I would also like to echo Tony Campolo as a great evangalist. I have a stack of his books and find them really helpful.

Mark Bishop
12-02-2004, 05:00 AM
Originally posted by fireweed59:

Anyone know how Carl Hatch is health-wise? How about Tim Lee, is he still in ministry? [/QB]Sorry about the delay..
Brother Carl seems to be doing fair..
He preached for us the Tuesday before thanksgiving..
I didn't see him last Sunday, so I suspect he was
out preaching.. he does one or two days at a time
now instead of service after service..
A Change,which of course, meets with the approval of Ruby
and the Doctors.. smile.gif

mark

EaglewingIS4031
12-02-2004, 09:17 AM
Ravi Z.
David Jeremiah
John MacAuthor
Chuck Swindoll
Allister Begg

And a couple of Presby's
D. James Kennedy
R.C. Sproul

They are all solid! Except the Padeobaptism of the 2 Presby's smile.gif

gb93433
12-02-2004, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by EaglewingIS4031:

D. James Kennedy
R.C. Sproul

They are all solid! Except the Padeobaptism of the 2 Presby's smile.gif I thought Kennedy immersed.

EaglewingIS4031
12-02-2004, 09:31 AM
Maybe he does, but he is Presbetrian.

Mapipe
12-02-2004, 11:36 AM
This is off-topic, but I'm new here. How do you know who someone is responding to? Eaglewing just said,"Maybe he does, but he is Presbyterian." How do I know who he is talking to?

Circuitrider
12-02-2004, 12:01 PM
Fulton Sheen????? :eek:
John MacArthur :eek:
Billy Graham :eek:
D. James Kenedy :eek:
Dave Wilkerson :eek:

I thought this was a Baptist board. Okay, Billy Graham claims Baptist roots and has personally affiated with First Baptist Church of Dallas, but Fulton Sheen???, a theological liberal, Presbyterians like MacArthur and Kenedy, Wilkerson is Assemblies of God. Then why not Paula White or T.D. Jakes :D ....come on!

God has given fundamental Baptists a great group of BAPTIST evangelists to feed, challenge and encourage the church. In addition to some already mentioned such as Tim Lee, Paul Levin, Clyde Box, how about Glen Jaspers, Dave Jaspers, Reuben Ewert, Bill Rice, Joe Mark, Mike Pelletier, John Goetsch, Charles Sanders, and many more.

Plain Old Bill
12-02-2004, 12:48 PM
I love Allistar Begg but don't know his roots.

Squire Robertsson
12-02-2004, 01:33 PM
To the Circuitrider's list, I'll add Bill Hall and Dan Hawtree.

tfisher1
12-02-2004, 01:43 PM
I agree circuit! Mike Pelletier is great!

Todd

Shiloh
12-02-2004, 01:48 PM
Circuitrider, Most on here wouldn't know a GOOD BAPTIST Evangelist if they would meet one. David Jeremiah, is not a baptist, and many others on the list.

mickd7
12-02-2004, 03:30 PM
Anybody that says Billy Graham is not a Christian , I would have to doubt they know the Lord themselves for the Word says you will know them by their fruit and I do not know any one else including Paul who has led so many souls to salvation while preaching.
BenW: David Wilkerson had the gift of prophesy and back about thirty years ago he had a vision of what would happen in the future. I have that tape and he is on the money.

Marcia
12-02-2004, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by Mapipe:
This is off-topic, but I'm new here. How do you know who someone is responding to? Eaglewing just said,"Maybe he does, but he is Presbyterian." How do I know who he is talking to? They should quote who they are responding to but that's not always done. You have to read back and try to figure it out or just post and ask them. In this case, I think he's referring to Kennedy, mentioned in the post immediately above Eaglewing's comment.

BTW, welcome to the BB! graemlins/wavey.gif graemlins/flower.gif

5xBlessed
12-02-2004, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by Circuitrider:
Fulton Sheen????? :eek:
John MacArthur :eek:
Billy Graham :eek:
D. James Kenedy :eek:
Dave Wilkerson :eek:

I thought this was a Baptist board. Okay, Billy Graham claims Baptist roots and has personally affiated with First Baptist Church of Dallas, but Fulton Sheen???, a theological liberal, Presbyterians like MacArthur and Kenedy, Wilkerson is Assemblies of God. Then why not Paula White or T.D. Jakes :D ....come on!

God has given fundamental Baptists a great group of BAPTIST evangelists to feed, challenge and encourage the church. In addition to some already mentioned such as Tim Lee, Paul Levin, Clyde Box, how about Glen Jaspers, Dave Jaspers, Reuben Ewert, Bill Rice, Joe Mark, Mike Pelletier, John Goetsch, Charles Sanders, and many more. Wow. I had no idea John MacArthur was Presbyterian. I just started listening to him recently and so far haven't heard anything contradictory to what I believe as a Baptist so had no way of know. For some reason I thought he was a Baptist. I actually think he came recommended from someone here who I'm pretty sure is a Baptist.

Guess it's time to move on. You didn't tell me on purpose but thanks for letting me know.

Lucy

Gershom
12-02-2004, 04:13 PM
MacArthur ain't no Presbyterian. He's a Calvinist, but not a Presby.

Dr. Bob
12-02-2004, 04:43 PM
MacArthur is a pre-trib dispensational reformed BAPTIST. And a hero of mine. Don't malign a good Baptist. To link such to Catholic Bishop Fulton Sheen is a travesty or sheer ignorance.

BTW, Los Angeles Baptist College (formerly GARBC, now called Master's College and Seminary), of which Mac is the President, is still a strong Baptist program.

fireweed59
12-02-2004, 11:48 PM
Interesting about MacArthur. Thanks for any information provided here. When someone said he is Presbyterian I, too, was surprised. Anyone else have anything to add about John MacArthur?

superdave
12-03-2004, 12:32 AM
Re: D. James Kennedy
Maybe he does, but he is Presbetrian.He's a free presbyterian, who immerses, more Baptistic than some on this board who carry the name.

He has a gift of oration thats for sure, perhaps a little too much political activism for my taste, but I do hear alot I agree with.

Joe Mark was always one of my favorites, Paul Caughill, Steve Piggot too. Steve Petit has a very talented group of musicians that travel with him, Dave Jaspers spoke at a mens conference here in MI last month and was great.

LadyEagle
12-03-2004, 12:32 AM
There are 9 pages of a thread going on here:

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/48/680.html

Enjoy! graemlins/flower.gif

Rev. Phil Parrish
12-03-2004, 05:06 AM
My personal favorite is Dr. Phil Kidd.
Most folk can't take his hard-line preaching. He preaches gun-barrel straight with no apologies. Then again, he says some things that are meant to be sarcastic or funny and people get upset with him because they take him so literally. If you have never heard him preach, but would like to, go to www.baptistbibletrumpet.com (http://www.baptistbibletrumpet.com) and listen to him as well as several other great preachers.

FBCPastorsWife
12-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by Rev. Phil Parrish:
My personal favorite is Dr. Phil Kidd.
Most folk can't take his hard-line preaching. He preaches gun-barrel straight with no apologies. Then again, he says some things that are meant to be sarcastic or funny and people get upset with him because they take him so literally. If you have never heard him preach, but would like to, go to www.baptistbibletrumpet.com (http://www.baptistbibletrumpet.com) and listen to him as well as several other great preachers. Not trying to slam your fave evangeliest here, but Phil Kidd is the biggest racist I have ever heard. Racism is NOT a Christlike behavior. I have heard some very derogatory remarks come from that man's mouth.

Is anyone else on here familiar with his behavior?

FBCPastorsWife
12-03-2004, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by Rev. Phil Parrish:
My personal favorite is Dr. Phil Kidd.
Most folk can't take his hard-line preaching. He preaches gun-barrel straight with no apologies. Then again, he says some things that are meant to be sarcastic or funny and people get upset with him because they take him so literally. If you have never heard him preach, but would like to, go to www.baptistbibletrumpet.com (http://www.baptistbibletrumpet.com) and listen to him as well as several other great preachers. Not trying to slam your fave evangeliest here, but Phil Kidd is the biggest racist I have ever heard. Racism is NOT a Christlike behavior. I have heard some very derogatory remarks come from that man's mouth.

Is anyone else on here familiar with his behavior?

5xBlessed
12-03-2004, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by Dr. Bob:
MacArthur is a pre-trib dispensational reformed BAPTIST. And a hero of mine. Don't malign a good Baptist. To link such to Catholic Bishop Fulton Sheen is a travesty or sheer ignorance.

BTW, Los Angeles Baptist College (formerly GARBC, now called Master's College and Seminary), of which Mac is the President, is still a strong Baptist program. Thank you, Dr. Bob! I actually like him a lot and am glad now that I can continue to listen to him.

Lucy

Pastor Larry
12-03-2004, 05:35 PM
MacArthur is a pretrib, dispensational, Calvinist for sure, but he is not really a Baptist, nor a Presbyterian. He is of the "Bible church" persuasion and they do distinguish themselves from Baptists. He repudiates congregationalism and believes in a self-perpetuating board of elders to run a local church, which may be fine ... but it is certainly not Baptist.

He is a good speaker and solid theologian for the most part, and does not deserve to be placed in the category with some of these other bozos that are being listed.

AVL1984
12-03-2004, 05:41 PM
FBCPW, I'm very familiar with his behaviour. I have found many Christians that like his style and his teaching. I for one do not. I find his attitude towards other races not only unscriptural, but more on the order of the of Matt Hale in E. Peoria, Illinois in the World Church of the Creator.

Pastor Larry
12-03-2004, 05:56 PM
FTR, MacArthur's school is a non-denominational school.

http://www.californiacolleges.edu/CampusTour/undergraduate/475/Masters_College_The/Masters_College_The1.html

Scott J
12-03-2004, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
FTR, MacArthur's school is a non-denominational school.

So is Bob Jones.

Dr. Bob
12-03-2004, 11:51 PM
Originally posted by FBCPastorsWife:
Not trying to slam your fave evangeliest here, but Phil Kidd is the biggest racist I have ever heard. Racism is NOT a Christlike behavior. I have heard some very derogatory remarks come from that man's mouth.

Is anyone else on here familiar with his behavior? Concur 100%. A reproach on the name of Christ.

WallyGator
12-03-2004, 11:53 PM
Listen! Don't get personal.
My dog is named BOZO and I think you hurt his feelings. graemlins/laugh.gif graemlins/laugh.gif graemlins/laugh.gif

mickd7
12-05-2004, 04:58 PM
Dr.Bob, I know I should not ask but is there anyone out there other than a Baptist that you admire and think is a good Christian.

Dr. Bob
12-05-2004, 05:27 PM
Sure. In some areas a number of Christians have my admiration and I think are godly men/women.

Bob Jones (Methodist)

Woodrow Kroll (non-denominational)

Chuck Swindoll (E Free) has some very practical teaching/books for Christians. His "Grace Awakening" is a must read.

Max Lucado (Church of Christ)

Francis Schaeffer (Presbyterian)

D James Kennedy (Presbyterian Reformed)

Martin Luther King Jr (kinda Baptist)

William Booth (Salvation Army)

blackbird
12-05-2004, 11:24 PM
Concerning Billy Graham---and the recent "bashing"--here's my take on his evangelistic thrust----I've heard living testamony--person to person--of people who's lives were changed because of his preaching. One particular lady I spoke with---a former Catholic nun from Baltimore---attended a crusade---heard Dr. Graham preach---during invitation---with her Catholic "Habit" on--she walked down the isle and repented of her sins and received Jesus as her personal Lord and Savior.

In a biography I have of Dr. Graham---he was "walking over" the platform area and arena were he was to preach that week----in Los Angeles--I believe 1968 or so----and noticed a "roped off" area---he asked, "What are these ropes here for??" The Crusade committee answered, "This is where the blacks will be--behind these ropes during the crusade!"

Graham answers--"Take the ropes down or the Crusade is canceled immediately!!!!" The ropes came down! Praise God???!!!!!!!!

Then there are the testamonies of his relationships with the US Presidents---and how he personally led President Dwight Eisehower(one of my military heros) to a personal relation with the Lord Jesus---I liked that testamony!!!

Billy Graham is one of my preaching heroes---at 80 something---age is telling on his preaching----he's just not the "firecracker" he was in the 50's and 60's----and one day---if I live old enough---I'll get that way!!

Blackbird

mickd7
12-06-2004, 04:18 PM
Billy Graham played a part in my salvation also.
One day I picked up a book of his in the library titled "World Aflame" and I could not put it down. His words touched my heart and set me up for the harvest by a Assemblies of God youth ministry. How is that for a combination. My heart opened up to Jesus by a Baptist and harvested by a Pentacostal and then I joined a Baptist church.
This is the way the body of Christ should work together. Forget the differences and work to win souls for the Kingdom!!!!
Many times as a youth I would see Graham on TV and I would have conviction in my heart. What a trememdous man of God he is and mightily used by God.

mickd7
12-06-2004, 04:24 PM
Dr.Bob, Fair enough. I like all those mentioned except Kroll which I do not know. It is hard to believe Bob Jones is a Methodist though. He might of started out as one but he sure is IFB now.
I do not suppose you like any Full gospel folks i.e Pat Robertson etc.

AVL1984
12-06-2004, 04:25 PM
He was somewhat instrumental in mine. I watched him on TV as a child and heard the salvation message clearly. I asked my Methodist SS teacher about it, and she asked if I was baptized as a baby. I told her I thought so. She said I was saved. I always wondered until later in a Baptist church I made a "profession". It was a 1,2,3...well, you know. I ended up accepting the Lord many years later.

Phillip
12-06-2004, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by Dr. Bob:
I was blessed by Paul as a young man. I thought he arrested Christians and hauled them to Jerusalem to be stoned when he was a young man? Ohhhh, Paul LEVIN, ooops wrong Paul. :eek: :eek: graemlins/laugh.gif

Phillip
12-06-2004, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by blackbird:
Concerning Billy Graham---Then there are the testamonies of his relationships with the US Presidents---and how he personally led President Dwight Eisehower(one of my military heros) to a personal relation with the Lord Jesus---I liked that testamony!!!

Blackbird Yep, he was especially tight with Richard Nixon. He thought Nixon to be a good Christian down deep inside that rough exterior.

How do you feel about Billy Graham being interviewed and saying that Islamics will go to heaven if they never hear the message of Christ and reach out to God in their own way? Is this Biblical? Or is this a MAJOR doctrinal error?

Johnv
12-06-2004, 04:59 PM
Phillip, there have been many threads on the "accountability" issue, which often addresses underaged children, the mentally retarded, infirmed, alzheimers victims, and the geographically isolated. Some on the board have surmised that, if a person has never had the opportunity the reject the Lord, that the Lord may in some manner take that into consideration. There is some scriptural support that can be interpreted to support that (the Revelation "if anyone hears my voice" verse). I think this is a major "we just dont know" area, and to refer to it as doctrinal error is harsh at the least. A doctrinal uncertainly, yes, but doctrinal error, I don't think so.

Phillip
12-06-2004, 05:20 PM
I have heard this too Johnv, but does it make sense that we should send missionaries out to spread the gospel and ensure that these people who don't accept go to hell?

Personally, if this is true, I would not send missionaries to an unreached people group. Would you? ..and if so, why?

Now, are there different degrees of punishment in hell? I think so, but that is an opinion. Hell is described as torment by fire, but I have seen people die in many fires and they certainly don't ask for a drink of water to cool the flames because the pain is making them go off the deep end--screaming and etc. So, maybe there is something here.

But, as far as heaven goes, is the Bible not clear that the narrow path is that of Jesus Christ the Son of God and it is our responsibility to tell people about this in order that they may be saved?

Just some thoughts.........

blackbird
12-07-2004, 07:31 AM
Billy is "way off base" when he says that Islamic folks can go to Heaven without hearing of Jesus Christ----way off base!

The way that interview went---I believe it was with that guy from the glass cathedral---ole what's his name----the whole interview process reeked of universalism---something that ole what's his name is known for!! May have caught Billy off guard!!

Ain't but one way to get to Heaven--to the presence of God---and thats through repentance of sins and receiveing Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior!!

Billy must have been mad at Ruth Bell or somethin' that day---maybe a bad argument that was cloudin' Billy's mind during that interview---it was just a little too "off base"---enough for the pitcher to "throw him out!!" Know what I mean??

On a more serious note concerning that interview with ole what's his name---I believe Billy's answer----comes with a combination of Parkinson's and the medication---unable to give a logical biblical theological answer to what should have been a "no brainer!"---but again---I'm not an MD but maybe that had a lot to come into play with that silly interview!!

mickd7
12-07-2004, 01:13 PM
Even if Graham did say something like that, which I feel was a opinion, this in no way takes away from his great ministry. Cant we make a mistake or two without someone calling the wrath of God on us. Give me a break people!!!!!!
I think what Graham meant and I think also (opinion only) that if a person never heard the gospel but their heart was open to the truth and of course only the Holy Spirit knows the hearts of men, then he will make a way for that person to receive the gospel if he has to send a missionary 10,000 miles just for him or her.
Also if a person that has never heard the gospel and does not know better I think his hell wont be as hot as someone in America that has heard the gosel all their life and then rejected the message.

Johnv
12-07-2004, 01:26 PM
We've gotta remember that the source for the "Billy Graham says Muslims can go to heaven" comment is a specific excerpt from one specific interview. As the old saying goes, a text out of context is pretext. Given that the vast bulk of (quoting blackbird) ole Billy's work has been that Christ is the sole redeemer, and without him, we perish, I take the interview text with a grain of salt. Same for ole what's his name. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. When someone says a million times that the sky is blue, and says once that the sky is red, we remember him only for saying the sky is red.

Johnv
12-07-2004, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by Phillip:
I have heard this too Johnv, but does it make sense that we should send missionaries out to spread the gospel and ensure that these people who don't accept go to hell?IMO, that's kinda like saying we shouldn't bother taking good care of ourselves, because we all die anyway. Regardless of the accountability topic, we are commanded to spread the Gospel. When Jesus says, we must do.

Marcia
12-07-2004, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by Johnv:
Phillip, there have been many threads on the "accountability" issue, which often addresses underaged children, the mentally retarded, infirmed, alzheimers victims, and the geographically isolated. Some on the board have surmised that, if a person has never had the opportunity the reject the Lord, that the Lord may in some manner take that into consideration. There is some scriptural support that can be interpreted to support that (the Revelation "if anyone hears my voice" verse). I think this is a major "we just dont know" area, and to refer to it as doctrinal error is harsh at the least. A doctrinal uncertainly, yes, but doctrinal error, I don't think so. There's a difference between those who cannot understand the gospel (mentally ill, severely retarded, etc.) and those who can understand it. If those who have not heard the gospel respond to the general revelation that there is a God, don't you think God can get the gospel to them (or even to those who are not responding)?

JohnV, are you an inclusivist? It sounds like from the above that you might be.

HappyG
12-07-2004, 04:49 PM
Anyone ever heard of Dr. Gary Gillmore? And do you recommend him? Pretty sure he is a Baptist evangelist.

AVL1984
12-07-2004, 04:50 PM
Yes, I have heard of him. He used to come to the church I grew up in a LONG time ago. He was a good preacher, and yes, he is a Baptist.

Johnv
12-07-2004, 06:53 PM
Originally posted by Marcia:
There's a difference between those who cannot understand the gospel (mentally ill, severely retarded, etc.) and those who can understand it. If those who have not heard the gospel respond to the general revelation that there is a God, don't you think God can get the gospel to them (or even to those who are not responding)?
God CAN do many things. That does not mean that we should presume that he DOES or HAS. Right now, at this very moment, there are peoples living on the earth who have never had contact with the outside world, let alone the Gospel. Should we presume that they're hellbound? Scripture instructs us that we may not judge a person's salvation, for only God knows a person's heart. That includes those who have never heard the Gospel.

JohnV, are you an inclusivist? It sounds like from the above that you might be. What's an inclusivist? I know one sole Gospel truth. I have broken God's laws, that the penalty for doing so is death, and that no matter how much good I do, it does not pay my debt. Thankfully, Jesus offers to pay my debt.

If, however, you're referring to the "accountability" topic I brought up, I brought it up because it has been discussed before, not because I espouse it. In fact, I'm undecided where I stand on the issue as a whole, since those who have discussed it bring up worthy scriptural points.

Marcia
12-07-2004, 07:19 PM
Posted by JohnV
Right now, at this very moment, there are peoples living on the earth who have never had contact with the outside world, let alone the Gospel. Should we presume that they're hellbound? Scripture instructs us that we may not judge a person's salvation, for only God knows a person's heart. That includes those who have never heard the Gospel.
But scripture does not contradict itself, either. And the message of the gospel is clearly that one can only be saved through Jesus Christ -- Jn 14.6, Acts 4.12, for example. Since I believe God is just, I don't believe anyone goes to hell unjustly. But I think scripture is clear that the only way to God is through Christ.

What's an inclusivist? I know one sole Gospel truth. I have broken God's laws, that the penalty for doing so is death, and that no matter how much good I do, it does not pay my debt. Thankfully, Jesus offers to pay my debt.
An inclusivist believes that people can be saved through non-Christian religions/beliefs, apart from knowing Jesus Christ. That is, they can know "Jesus" by knowing Buddha, Hindu gods, Allah, etc. They do not really know Jesus at all, but inclusivists believe that knowing Allah, Buddha, etc. can be like knowing Jesus/God and is sufficient. That is a simplification of their view, but sort of sums it up. These people are saved apart from knowing Christ. In other words, Jesus can be Buddha, a Hindu god, Allah, etc. if these people are sincerely worshiping. Do you agree with this or find it credible? You seem to think that people who don't hear the gospel are saved.

Johnv
12-07-2004, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by Marcia:
... the message of the gospel is clearly that one can only be saved through Jesus Christ
If God is just, as you and I agree, it brings up the question of what happens to the infants, the retarded, the informed, etc. I don't have that answer. I simply brought up the question here, which has been brought up before numerous times by others, and presented it as food for thought. You're taking that and attempting to imply that I hold to some kind of false doctrine.
Originally posted by Marcia:
You seem to think that people who don't hear the gospel are saved. Back off, Marcia, it's a discussion. We're discussing. As I said, I simply brought up the question here, which has been brought up before numerous times by others, and presented it as food for thought.
An inclusivist believes that people can be saved through non-Christian religions/beliefs, apart from knowing Jesus Christ.
I don't believe that you can get saved through ANY belief. No religion saves, not even Christian religions. Only Jesus saves.

I Am Blessed 24
12-07-2004, 08:11 PM
John:

Anyone who has been around here very long knows you do not hold to false doctrines! ;)

And, no, that is not sarcasm. It is what I believe to be true. I've read too many of your posts - we may not always agree, but we can disagree without getting into personalities. graemlins/thumbs.gif

§ue graemlins/type.gif

I Am Blessed 24
12-07-2004, 08:15 PM
Is there ANY present evangelist that is acceptable to the Baptist Board? I don't know LE, but I have a few that are acceptable to ME. :D

Tim Lee
David Gibbs
S.M. Davis

to name a few and they all preach/have preached world-wide.

§ue graemlins/saint.gif

Gershom
12-07-2004, 08:17 PM
Johnv posted:
Only Jesus saves. We have heard the joyful sound: Jesus saves! Jesus saves!
Spread the tidings all around: Jesus saves! Jesus saves!
Bear the news to every land, climb the mountains, cross the waves;
Onward! ’tis our Lord’s command; Jesus saves! Jesus saves!

Waft it on the rolling tide: Jesus saves! Jesus saves!
Tell to sinners far and wide: Jesus saves! Jesus saves!
Sing, you islands of the sea; echo back, you ocean caves;
Earth shall keep her jubilee: Jesus saves! Jesus saves!

Sing above the battle strife: Jesus saves! Jesus saves!
By His death and endless life Jesus saves! Jesus saves!
Shout it brightly through the gloom, when the heart for mercy craves;
Sing in triumph o’er the tomb: Jesus saves! Jesus saves!

Give the winds a mighty voice: Jesus saves! Jesus saves!
Let the nations now rejoice: Jesus saves! Jesus saves!
Shout salvation full and free; highest hills and deepest caves;
This our song of victory: Jesus saves! Jesus saves!

Pris*cil*la J. Ow*ens

AMEN!

LadyEagle
12-07-2004, 11:44 PM
If God is just, as you and I agree, it brings up the question of what happens to the infants, the retarded, the informed, etc.Well, the informed would certainly be informed, that's for sure. But if you are talking about the infirm, that's another story. tongue.gif

graemlins/laugh.gif Pickin' at ya, Johnv, LOL, love your typos. ;)

EaglewingIS4031
12-08-2004, 07:32 AM
What is Ya'll's opinion of Dr. Tony Evans, of the Urban Alternative?

blackbird
12-08-2004, 07:44 AM
The "Tone Man" can preach!!!

AVL1984
12-08-2004, 10:59 AM
I like Dr. Evans VERY MUCH! If it wasn't for his ministry, I never would have gone back to church. I listened to him for several years after leaving the ministry and church. God used him greatly in both mine and Vivian's lives.

blackbird
12-08-2004, 01:18 PM
Speaking of Dr. Evans---I've heard him speak on several occasions at the Mississippi Baptist Convention dates---Pastor's Conferences, etc.

I like how he presents an illustration---then "brings it home" for the listener to apply spiritually!!

In my book---Dr. Evans is top notch!! Rate from 1 to 10 with 10 being the highest---he's a 10!!!!

Johnv
12-08-2004, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by I Am Blessed 16:
Anyone who has been around here very long knows you do not hold to false doctrines! ;) And, no, that is not sarcasm. It is what I believe to be true. I've read too many of your posts - we may not always agree, but we can disagree without getting into personalities. graemlins/thumbs.gif I'm truly humbled, and appreciative. graemlins/flower.gif
Originally posted by LadyEagle:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />If God is just, as you and I agree, it brings up the question of what happens to the infants, the retarded, the informed, etc.Well, the informed would certainly be informed, that's for sure.</font>[/QUOTE]EEK!!!! Did I really type that? I guess I was "misinfirmed" graemlins/laugh.gif

Marcia
12-08-2004, 08:44 PM
Posted by JohnV
Right now, at this very moment, there are peoples living on the earth who have never had contact with the outside world, let alone the Gospel. Should we presume that they're hellbound? Scripture instructs us that we may not judge a person's salvation, for only God knows a person's heart. That includes those who have never heard the Gospel. What do you mean by this? You are asking if "we" should "presume" that people who have not heard the Gospel are hellbound. What do you think?

Johnv
12-08-2004, 08:47 PM
I told you what I think. I think we're to leave the judging of a person's salvation to God and God alone. That's what scripture tells us, and that's what we should do.

Pastor Larry
12-09-2004, 10:03 AM
The Scriptures tell us that those who do not have faith in Christ are lost in their sin. What else do we need? Why is this even a discussion when Scripture speaks so clearly to it?