Why not the Local church

[Salty]

A member on this board does not believe in local churches (that is his statement for "local church" on his profile. I have sent him a pm hand ask him to inform us why he does not believe in the local church.

Otherwise, what say you. Have we taken the "local church ideal" too far?

Salty

[Inquiring Mind]

I will reply later.

This is an extremely complex subject.

[El_Guero]

Yes & no . . .

If the local church is run by people that do not submit to God . . . then it is too far.

If they submit to God?

Then it is just right.

[DeeJay]

I will reply later.

This is an extremely complex subject.

I find it odd that you do not believe in a local church, BUT you have a denomonation.

How can that be? Dont keep us in suspense to long. I am curious.

[Inquiring Mind]

I have the Bible.

The Bible is all one needs outside of Christ.

I don't need a local church.

I don't need a Pastor, Minister, Preacher or any other name you want to give to a person who stands behind a pulpit.

A local church does not affect my Salvation.

A Pastor does not affect my Salvation.

It's just Me, Jesus, and a Bible.

I am more attuned to the Ancient Church of the book of Acts.

I don't need a Pastor to interpret the Bible, I can do that fine by myself.

I have the ability to give my tithe to those charities and missions that I feel God is speaking to me about. Tithing to support a building is a waste of God's share of my earnings he as so graciously bestowed upon me.

More importantly is Bible statistics. If a church claims to be a "Full Gospel" then the church is bearing false witness to God. Preaching and teaching the Gospel means just that, teaching and preaching the entire New Testament at least. But not one church I know of does this. The NT can be read in 16 hours. Divide that up over 3 services a week(Sunday Morning, Sunday Night, and the Typical Wednesday Night Bible Study) and you have 6 minutes per service in which to read all of the New Testament in the course of one year. But not one pastor has any structured way to read the entire New Testament to his congregation. I have spent years trying to find a Pastor that does this. Not one exists. A Pastor covers his own specific passages year after year after year.

I can be my own Pastor and make sure that not one Iota of the Bible is left unread.

I have listened for years to every single radio brocast feasible and watched every single Christian show feasible. Never have I heard anyone read these two verses:

1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: neverthless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

There are others too that never get preached.

In interpretation the bible, all plain sense and common sense has taken the last train out of town.

there are other reasons too, that I can't remember yet at this writing.

[Inquiring Mind]

I find it odd that you do not believe in a local church, BUT you have a denomonation.

How can that be? Dont keep us in suspense to long. I am curious.

I signed up with my last denomination that I was a part of. I tried joining with a "none" but was declined. There seems to be a bit of censorship here.

[Inquiring Mind]

Yes & no . . .

If the local church is run by people that do not submit to God . . . then it is too far.

If they submit to God?

Then it is just right.I don't think any really exists that actually submits to God the way the Ancient church of Acts did.

[Inquiring Mind]

Also the Administrators have made it where one can not change their denomination. Censorship and Control reigns here.

[El_Guero]

That's OK - you cannot follow the path of the 'Ancient church of Acts' and not be in a physical church location with a real body of believers worshipping Christ under the authority of God's men . . .

IMHO that is . . .

;)

I don't think any really exists that actually submits to God the way the Ancient church of Acts did.

[tragic_pizza]

Also the Administrators have made it where one can not change their denomination. Censorship and Control reigns here.Don't like it? don't post here.

And I notice you seem to gloss over the pesky "don't forsake the gathering together..." parts.

[Linda64]

I have the Bible.

The Bible is all one needs outside of Christ.

I don't need a local church.

I don't need a Pastor, Minister, Preacher or any other name you want to give to a person who stands behind a pulpit.

A local church does not affect my Salvation.

A Pastor does not affect my Salvation.

It's just Me, Jesus, and a Bible.

I am more attuned to the Ancient Church of the book of Acts.

I don't need a Pastor to interpret the Bible, I can do that fine by myself.

I have the ability to give my tithe to those charities and missions that I feel God is speaking to me about. Tithing to support a building is a waste of God's share of my earnings he as so graciously bestowed upon me.

More importantly is Bible statistics. If a church claims to be a "Full Gospel" then the church is bearing false witness to God. Preaching and teaching the Gospel means just that, teaching and preaching the entire New Testament at least. But not one church I know of does this. The NT can be read in 16 hours. Divide that up over 3 services a week(Sunday Morning, Sunday Night, and the Typical Wednesday Night Bible Study) and you have 6 minutes per service in which to read all of the New Testament in the course of one year. But not one pastor has any structured way to read the entire New Testament to his congregation. I have spent years trying to find a Pastor that does this. Not one exists. A Pastor covers his own specific passages year after year after year.

I can be my own Pastor and make sure that not one Iota of the Bible is left unread.

I have listened for years to every single radio brocast feasible and watched every single Christian show feasible. Never have I heard anyone read these two verses:

1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: neverthless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

There are others too that never get preached.

In interpretation the bible, all plain sense and common sense has taken the last train out of town.

there are other reasons too, that I can't remember yet at this writing.

Harold Camping? Hmmmmmm

[Inquiring Mind]

Don't like it? don't post here.

And I notice you seem to gloss over the pesky "don't forsake the gathering together..." parts.

that manifests when 3 or more gather in his name. There are more than 2 in my household.

[Inquiring Mind]

That's OK - you cannot follow the path of the 'Ancient church of Acts' and not be in a physical church location with a real body of believers worshipping Christ under the authority of God's men . . .

IMHO that is . . .

;)Real body of believers is an oxymoron. The body of christ is a symbolic union of all those whom believe in him.

[tragic_pizza]

that manifests when 3 or more gather in his name. There are more than 2 in my household.Riiiiiiiight.

And Scripture is interpreted by... you.

Theology is understood in... your own historical context.

You're shortchanging yourself and your family, but whatever.

[Inquiring Mind]

Riiiiiiiight.

And Scripture is interpreted by... you.

Is that not what Martin Luther said?

"Even the lowly milkmaid who followed the cow could understand and interpret scripture for herself" concerning his belief in "Sola Scriptura"

[tragic_pizza]

Is that not what Martin Luther said?Out of context. You lose.

[Marcia]

that manifests when 3 or more gather in his name. There are more than 2 in my household.

Where do you get that from?

If you're thinking of Matt. 18, the "two or three gathered together" refers to church discipline and the preceding passage.

Heb 10.25 tells us to not neglect assemblying together. When we are in the body of Christ as believers, participating in that visibly in a local church is how it's worked out. Nearly all of the epistles in the NT were to local churches -- those believers gathered together to follow what was instructed.

I've had emails from lots of Christians who don't attend any church and why are they emailing? Usually because they have fallen into some kind of heresy or aberration and are challenging the Bible.

There's a reason God calls us sheep. We stray easily.

Also, the gifts of the HS are given to believers for the edification of other believers - they are to be used in the local church or churches.

[Inquiring Mind]

Is that not the essence of Scripture Alone?

I have the right by Scripture being the sole authority that I can guided by the holy spirit discern the scriptures?

I don't need anyone to tell me how to interpret or read the Bible but the Holy Spirit?

Martin Luther was a Godsend!

He opened the door to Freedom of Private Interpretation.

Praise be to God for showing Martin Luther the Light!:praying:

[Inquiring Mind]

If you're thinking of Matt. 18, the "two or three gathered together" refers to church discipline and the preceding passage.The mystical universal church comprised of all believing christians. 4 of us gather at my house in his name. Therefore we are meeting the requirements of the Bible. Even the Hebrew.

But there is no proof that these were actual local churches since the Christians were in a state of persecution. More likely they met in different places. The Early church according to Acts, first went to the synagogues to hear scripture and teaching and then went to each others houses participate in the "Breaking of the Bread". The Roman's, Galations, more than likely did not have a local church like we have now. They were more of an invisible body of believers within a city, having "Breaking of the Bread" services in each other's houses. There were not any physical local churches.

[tragic_pizza]

Is that not the essence of Scripture Alone?

I have the right by Scripture being the sole authority that I can guided by the holy spirit discern the scriptures?

I don't need anyone to tell me how to interpret or read the Bible but the Holy Spirit?

Martin Luther was a Godsend!

He opened the door to Freedom of Private Interpretation.

Praise be to God for showing Martin Luther the Light!:praying:Written by someone who is unaware of the creeds of Luther and Calvin's churches.

[Inquiring Mind]

Heb 10.25 tells us to not neglect assemblying together. The meeting at my house meets this requirement. Furthemore there is periodicity for this assemblying.

[Inquiring Mind]

Written by someone who is unaware of the creeds of Luther and Calvin's churches.I know enough to justify my position.

[tragic_pizza]

I know enough to justify my position.Apparently not, but thanks for playing.

If personal interpretation were enough, why did Calvin write, and revise thoughout his life, the Institutes? And why were he and Luther so dedicated to seeing that the fellowship of believers, that is, the church, was [i]as a body[/i[ doctrinally pure?

[Inquiring Mind]

Apparently not, but thanks for playing.

If personal interpretation were enough, why did Calvin write, and revise thoughout his life, the Institutes? And why were he and Luther so dedicated to seeing that the fellowship of believers, that is, the church, was [i]as a body[/i[ doctrinally pure?I really don't care nor do I want to know what else they believed or did not believe or profess about their other doctrines or beliefs. I fellowship with other people on a daily basis. I don't need the a phony local church with all of its phony rules and regulations.

[tragic_pizza]

I really don't care nor do I want to know what else they believed or did not believe or profess about their other doctrines or beliefs. I fellowship with other people on a daily basis. I don't need the a phony local church with all of its phony rules and regulations.Hahahaaaaa!

Perfect.

Rather than actually addressing the salient point, you pop up a few straw men and run.

Cute.

I think I'm done here, unless you have anything which addresses my last post directly.

[Inquiring Mind]

Heb 10.25 tells us to not neglect assemblying togetherIt's a suggestion, not a directive.

I have failed to enter into a church prior service and not hear the satan induced gossiping of women, not once.

Before service they are dogging out a person, then during the service they are saying "Amen". phony hogwash.

[Inquiring Mind]

Hahahaaaaa!

Perfect.

Rather than actually addressing the salient point, you pop up a few straw men and run.

Cute.

I think I'm done here, unless you have anything which addresses my last post directly.Whatever makes you happy.

[Inquiring Mind]

Luther and Calvins other beliefs have no bearing on what I believe about Private Interpretation. I am not guided by Luther, Calvin, or you. I am guided by the Holy Spirit.

[tragic_pizza]

Luther and Calvins other beliefs have no bearing on what I believe about Private Interpretation. I am not guided by Luther, Calvin, or you. I am guided by the Holy Spirit.And you know it's the Holy Spirit because you say it's the Holy Spirit.

Got it.

[Inquiring Mind]

And you know it's the Holy Spirit because you say it's the Holy Spirit.
Got it.You dare question whether one possesses the Holy Spirit or not? You are you to make that Judgement call?

I know it is the Holy Spirit because this sheep hears the shepards voice. God speaks to me thru his holy scripture.

[Inquiring Mind]

And you know it's the Holy Spirit because you say it's the Holy Spirit.You doubt people are given the Holy Spirit?

[tragic_pizza]

You doubt people are giving the Holy Spirit?That isn't what I said, now, is it? Try again.

[Inquiring Mind]

That isn't what I said, now, is it? Try again.Then what are you saying?

[Inquiring Mind]

And you know it's the Holy Spirit because you say it's the Holy Spirit.That's like saying as well:

And you know you're saved because you say you're saved?

[tragic_pizza]

Then what are you saying?Simply what I said.

You say you're being led by the Spirit, but have no way of checking the reality of that statement, as you eschew the company of other believers.

Two words, my friend: David Koresh.

[tragic_pizza]

That's like saying as well:

And you know you're saved because you say you're saved?You first.

[Inquiring Mind]

I am saved.
I am being saved.
I will be saved.

The Holy Spirit abides in me because Christ abides in and I in Him.

I have the assurance of Permanant Salvation because I believe in Christ and Recogize that he died on the Cross for me. I am saved because I have called on Jesus. And Jesus answered. This sheep heard his voice.

What say you?

[tragic_pizza]

I am saved.
I am being saved.
I will be saved.

The Holy Spirit abides in me because Christ abides in and I in Him.

I have the assurance of Permanant Salvation because I believe in Christ and Recogize that he died on the Cross for me. I am saved because I have called on Jesus. And Jesus answered. This sheep heard his voice.

What say you?Sounds like language borrowed from a denomination...

[Marcia]

I fellowship with other people on a daily basis. I don't need the a phony local church with all of its phony rules and regulations.

So you're better? Sounds like a very superior attitude towards others.

Just because you may have had bad experiences in the past with churches (which I am guessing may be the reason for this attitude), does not justify looking down on the local church.

That church you are looking down on, if a Christian one, is part of the body of Christ, flaws and all.

Since Linda mentioned Harold Camping, I, too, wonder if you are a follower of Camping.

[EdSutton]

Thought I'd toss on my two santims worth. (One has no idea how difficult it is to find a new small coin of some nation each and every time I want to do this, Latvia in this instance.)

Matthew mentions a church, and implies some sort of local type due to church discipline.
Acts mentions churches in various localities, including Antioch, Jerusalem, throughout all Judea, Galilee, and Samaria, churches in Cicilia, and Syria, a church in Ephesus, as well as implying a church in Caesarea, meeting in the home of Philip.
Romans is written to a church in a location as well as the Corinthian epistles, churches in Galatia, Ephesians, (which we've already mentioned) Phillipi, Colossae, church of the Thessalonians, the church that met with Philemon, a church in Laodecia is mentioned in Colossians, Hebrews mentions a church, James mentions a church, Peter mentions a church, II John and III John both mention churches, and Revelation speaks of seven churches. In addition, as well as mentioning 'church', in I Timothy, both I Timothy and Titus give qualifications for Elder or Bishops in a church.

Every one of these seems to speak of a church in some location or locations, and this list is just off the top of my head. (No, I didn't blow a cork, or blow my stack, here, contrary to what some might think.)

Let's review. Out of 27 books in the NT, at least 20 speak in some way of a church in some location. Way I got it figured, that's 74% of the NT books that seem to have some concern regarding a church in a location. I'd say that regardless of what you or I happen to think, the Divine Author (God, the Holy Spirit) and the human writers of the NT saw this as important.

And six of the nine authors of the NT; Matthew, Luke, Paul, Apollos, James, and John speak of a church. That's 2/3 as well. (And it's my post, so I can claim Matthew, Luke and Apollos as authors, even though none of the three are specifically spoken of as the authors of Matthew, Luke and Acts, and Hebrews.):laugh: :laugh: :thumbs:

I happen to live in a mostly rural area with a county population of some 18,000. There are at least 75 local churches in this county that I can count. I figure that probably I can find one to get along with, for the most part. I figure if I can't, I'm probably the one with the problem. Anyone else can make his or her own decision on this for themselves.

Ed

[Revmitchell]

I have the Bible.

The Bible is all one needs outside of Christ.

I don't need a local church.

I don't need a Pastor, Minister, Preacher or any other name you want to give to a person who stands behind a pulpit.

A local church does not affect my Salvation.

A Pastor does not affect my Salvation.

It's just Me, Jesus, and a Bible.

I am more attuned to the Ancient Church of the book of Acts.

I don't need a Pastor to interpret the Bible, I can do that fine by myself.

I have the ability to give my tithe to those charities and missions that I feel God is speaking to me about. Tithing to support a building is a waste of God's share of my earnings he as so graciously bestowed upon me.

More importantly is Bible statistics. If a church claims to be a "Full Gospel" then the church is bearing false witness to God. Preaching and teaching the Gospel means just that, teaching and preaching the entire New Testament at least. But not one church I know of does this. The NT can be read in 16 hours. Divide that up over 3 services a week(Sunday Morning, Sunday Night, and the Typical Wednesday Night Bible Study) and you have 6 minutes per service in which to read all of the New Testament in the course of one year. But not one pastor has any structured way to read the entire New Testament to his congregation. I have spent years trying to find a Pastor that does this. Not one exists. A Pastor covers his own specific passages year after year after year.

I can be my own Pastor and make sure that not one Iota of the Bible is left unread.

I have listened for years to every single radio brocast feasible and watched every single Christian show feasible. Never have I heard anyone read these two verses:

1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: neverthless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

There are others too that never get preached.

In interpretation the bible, all plain sense and common sense has taken the last train out of town.

there are other reasons too, that I can't remember yet at this writing.

Pure rebellion.

[Eric B]

I kind of wonder if this all might be some sort of spoof. Statements like "It's just Me, Jesus, and a Bible" and "I don't need the Church" I have seen are common Catholic/Orthodox caricatures of "Sola Scriptura" that they have used here, and I could see where someone would attempt to take "our beliefs to their logical conclusion" (i.e. extreme) to "show us" how impractical SS is. So we're here attacking this belief, but the point will be made, that is our own ideology we are refuting.

I'm sorry to be so suspicious, but it does look like it could be this. Then look at some of the other new threads on what the true Church should be. And this after a spate of "catholics" (including EOC) arguing their case.

[tragic_pizza]

And six of the nine authors of the NT; Matthew, Luke, Paul, Apollos, James, and John speak of a church. That's 2/3 as well. (And it's my post, so I can claim Matthew, Luke and Apollos as authors, even though none of the three are specifically spoken of as the authors of Matthew, Luke and Acts, and Hebrews.)I would love to discuss the idea of Apollos writing Hebrews. It makes sense, I think, but I'd enjoy hearing the scholarship behind the position.

[JamieinNH]

Pure rebellion.

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Jamie