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Joseph_Botwinick
10-30-2006, 10:07 PM
In my Sunday School Class, we are using the Master Work books. Charles Stanley is the current author of the lessons we are doing right now. Last Sunday's lesson dealt with the topic: Roadblocks to Success. The first roadblock he discusses is fear. On page 108 of the current book, he tells us to read Isaiah 41:10-13, and then makes the following commentary:

Four promises are embedded in this passage: (1) The Lord promises to give us His presence. (2) The Lord promises to give us His power, which is vastly superior to our strength. (3) The Lord promises to give us His provision, which is more than sufficient. (4) The Lord promises to give us His protection against all of our enemies.

Presence, power, provision, and protection - what more could you possibly need? Remind the Lord often of his fourfold promise to you.

The last sentence there reached out and grabbed me yesterday and bothered me a bit. Why in the world would we need to remind God of anything. Did God forget? Does he think God might welch on his promises unless we remind him? Does this statement bother anyone else besides me and almost sound like what many in the WOF movement teach?

Joseph Botwinick

npetreley
10-30-2006, 10:11 PM
Yikes.

What else might He forget?

whatever
10-30-2006, 10:22 PM
Well, He is pretty Ancient, you know. :(

I am the one who often needs to be reminded of His promises. I find thoughts of God like this bizarre. Sometimes I express that sentiment and become disliked, but, oh well.

2BHizown
10-30-2006, 10:44 PM
Are we not supposed to 'claim' His promises?
This is for our benefit, certainly not His. If we pray and claim His promise and our prayer is then answered, we are then sensitive to give all thanks and glory to Him.

Pipedude
10-30-2006, 11:01 PM
Are there scriptural examples of folks "reminding" God of his promises, or asking him to remember them?

2BHizown
10-30-2006, 11:27 PM
No, scripture says the Lord is not slack concerning His promises.

whatever
10-30-2006, 11:31 PM
Sure there are, especially in times of severe hardship or persecution. But "often"? At some point reminding would turn into doubting, don't you think?

Joseph_Botwinick
10-30-2006, 11:35 PM
Sure there are, especially in times of severe hardship or persecution. But "often"? At some point reminding would turn into doubting, don't you think?

Or into demands. I can see somebody now just reminding God..."Hey, don't you remember when you promised me this? I am claiming those promises. Now, pay up."

Joseph Botwinick

whatever
10-30-2006, 11:38 PM
Good point, and when those demands aren't answered disillusionment will likely follow.

Allan
10-31-2006, 12:16 AM
I agree on both sides of the coin.
One side is true that God never forgot what He promised to do.
The other side says we are to claim those promises of God or believe God will Do what He said.

And yes there are many examples of people in scripture reminding God of His promises. Moses - reminded God, Abraham - reminded God, David - reminded God.

But I think the point conveyed was not that God forgot but that THEY REMEMBERED His promise and in their prayers to God re-affirmed their faith and belief that God was/is able to do all He said. They came back from a place of doubt, feeliing God forgot them - to a renewed faith remembering that God was perfecting their faith WHILE fulfilling His promise to them.

av1611jim
10-31-2006, 12:48 AM
I suppose one could make a case for John 17 being Jesus' reminding and praising His Father.

As Allan pointed out, yes there are many examples in Scripture of men reminding God of some thing or promise. Moses' is my favorite.

God was going to kill all of Israel and Moses said, "But Lord, these are YOUR people whom YOU chose. Remember?"

mcdirector
10-31-2006, 06:45 AM
As an aside -- I don't know anything about Master Work books, but I have written curriculum and there is an editing process and sometimes I was appalled at what came out under my name. At times I went round and round with an editor only to be told that he/she was sorry, but they did have the final say.

Not to take anything away from the discussion -- because I think there is a tremendous difference in CLAIMING a promise and reminding God he made one.

Joseph_Botwinick
10-31-2006, 07:43 AM
As an aside -- I don't know anything about Master Work books, but I have written curriculum and there is an editing process and sometimes I was appalled at what came out under my name. At times I went round and round with an editor only to be told that he/she was sorry, but they did have the final say.

Not to take anything away from the discussion -- because I think there is a tremendous difference in CLAIMING a promise and reminding God he made one.

Bitsy,

Are you telling me that they could publish the article in your name without your permission? It would seem that if you didn't like the way they edited it enough and they weren't willing to change it that you could have pulled the article. Am I wrong?

Joseph Botwinick

mcdirector
10-31-2006, 08:01 PM
Joseph -- it depends on the contract, writing curriculum is not the same as writing a piece and selling it to a publication. With curriculum writing, (at least with LifeWay) writing is work-for-hire and they can redo any or all of it if they want. They never changed the entire content on me -- just phrasing. Curriculum publishers want writers that only need tweaking because the turn around time is so short. Basically, it was always my piece, but it reminded me that Stanley phrase you honed in on in that lesson might have been made by an editor. Only Stanley and the editor know for sure.

Having said that, one of my favorite things to do was to take a unit that someone else had written that wasn't up-to-par and rewrite it. I was a ghost writer and the original authors name went on the piece.

StraightAndNarrow
11-04-2006, 10:13 PM
In my Sunday School Class, we are using the Master Work books. Charles Stanley is the current author of the lessons we are doing right now. Last Sunday's lesson dealt with the topic: Roadblocks to Success. The first roadblock he discusses is fear. On page 108 of the current book, he tells us to read Isaiah 41:10-13, and then makes the following commentary:

Four promises are embedded in this passage: (1) The Lord promises to give us His presence. (2) The Lord promises to give us His power, which is vastly superior to our strength. (3) The Lord promises to give us His provision, which is more than sufficient. (4) The Lord promises to give us His protection against all of our enemies.

Presence, power, provision, and protection - what more could you possibly need? Remind the Lord often of his fourfold promise to you.

The last sentence there reached out and grabbed me yesterday and bothered me a bit. Why in the world would we need to remind God of anything. Did God forget? Does he think God might welch on his promises unless we remind him? Does this statement bother anyone else besides me and almost sound like what many in the WOF movement teach?

Joseph Botwinick

Are you in effect saying that there is no need to petition God in prayer?

Joseph_Botwinick
11-05-2006, 12:12 AM
I don't believe I said that. Are you in effect saying that God is some senile weakling with a feeble mind who dosen't remember his promises?

Joseph Botwinick

av1611jim
11-05-2006, 01:10 AM
I don't think God 'forgets' his promises and needs us to remind Him.
But I DO think we forget and need to voice them now and again, be it in prayer or to each other. Repetition is a great way to embed something in one's mind.

blackbird
11-05-2006, 05:44 AM
Lord!! Remind ME of YOUR fourfold promise!!

And instead of US "claiming" God's promises----friend, listen----God's promises claim US!!!! ---- Us "claiming"---that sounds a bit greedy, don't you think!!!!

Too many times we say to ourselves

"This verse is for me! This verse speaks to me!"

Friend, the whole Bible is for us! The whole Bible speaks to us!! Not just portions----all of it!!! Every "jot and tittle!!"

LadyEagle
11-06-2006, 08:48 PM
Remind the Lord often of his fourfold promise to you.

Perhaps, what he meant was by reminding God, we are reminding ourselves. (God doesn't forget, but we do.) Just a thought.

Joseph_Botwinick
11-06-2006, 10:27 PM
Perhaps, what he meant was by reminding God, we are reminding ourselves. (God doesn't forget, but we do.) Just a thought.

If that is what he meant, then why didn't he say that? Surely, Charles Stanley is a better communicator than that.

Joseph Botwinick

Jim1999
11-06-2006, 10:34 PM
Quote:

Friend, the whole Bible is for us! The whole Bible speaks to us!! Not just portions----all of it!!! Every "jot and tittle!!"
---------------------------------------------

Well, I have no intentions to "go hang myself............(Judas)

Cheers,

Jim

preachinjesus
11-07-2006, 08:24 PM
Dr. Stanley is a great man of God, you shouldn't be reading into this so much.

Maybe one day we'll be able to sit around and bash everything anybody's ever written for minor issues. (please note irony)