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FundamentalOnly!
12-04-2006, 05:34 PM
What type of church/denomination would you consider John Hagee to be?

Is he a fundamentalist? I have never heard anyone talk about what they think his theology is. thanks

Tom Butler
12-04-2006, 06:17 PM
I'm not exactly sure what John Hagee's theology is.

Best guess: Charismatic, but not Pentecostal. Dispensational pre-mil. Possibly Postive Confession type (Word Faith). Arminian.

Joseph_Botwinick
12-04-2006, 06:28 PM
I would say he is a heretic.

Joseph Botwinick

Jack Matthews
12-04-2006, 06:34 PM
He's clearly not a heretic, unless you want to concede that God is endorsing his heresy by allowing him to be such an effective evangelist. Cornerstone Church wins more people over 16 years of age to Christ than any dozen Baptist churches combined. If he were a heretic, that wouldn't be happening.

J. Jump
12-04-2006, 06:41 PM
While I label John Hagee as a heretic, there are some things that I don't agree with him on, especially when it comes to Israel. In the same breath though I don't think you can say someone is a non-heretic just because people are accepting salvation either.

There are people on that day that cry Lord, Lord and had some good works (Godly works), but were called workers of iniquity.

He is someone that you should listen to with discernment, but I would say that of myself and any other person that speaks concerning Scripture.

It's the folks that tell you to listen to them and believe what they say and leave it at that, that you have to worry about :) Test his teachings with Scripture and see where it comes out.

Hope that helps.

By the way I don't know what you would categorize him as either.

Rufus_1611
12-04-2006, 06:54 PM
What type of church/denomination would you consider John Hagee to be?

Is he a fundamentalist? I have never heard anyone talk about what they think his theology is. thanks

Non-denominational evangelical with a sprinkling of dual-covenantism.

Joseph_Botwinick
12-04-2006, 07:13 PM
He's clearly not a heretic, unless you want to concede that God is endorsing his heresy by allowing him to be such an effective evangelist.

I don't think God endorses heresy. Further, professions of faith are not a sign of being an effective evangelist. If this were true, then a lack of Professions of Faith would be a sign of an ineffective evangelist. Yet, we see many men of God throughout the Bible who were faithful to his Word and spent their entire lives preaching the truth and yet were rejected, stoned, persecuted, thrown in prison. Popularity does not make an effective evangelist. Faithfully preaching the Word of God does. Haggee does not do this. It is God who effects the change in lost people, not man. Sometimes, God does this even despite the heresy.

Joseph Botwinick

xdisciplex
12-05-2006, 01:39 PM
Why is he a heretic? Is he a believer in word of faith?

Jack Matthews
12-05-2006, 04:54 PM
I don't think God endorses heresy. Further, professions of faith are not a sign of being an effective evangelist. If this were true, then a lack of Professions of Faith would be a sign of an ineffective evangelist. Yet, we see many men of God throughout the Bible who were faithful to his Word and spent their entire lives preaching the truth and yet were rejected, stoned, persecuted, thrown in prison. Popularity does not make an effective evangelist. Faithfully preaching the Word of God does. Haggee does not do this. It is God who effects the change in lost people, not man. Sometimes, God does this even despite the heresy.

Joseph Botwinick
He does not preach what you think is the Word of God.

An effective evangelist is one who has a track record of winning people to Christ. Paul was rejected, stoned, persecuted and thrown in prison. He was not necessarily popular as a whole, but he won thousands of people to Christ. If you cannot point to very many converts to Christ as a result of your evangelistic ministry, sorry, you are not an effective evangelist.

Hagee is not popular with the world at large. He preaches the hard truth of the gospel, from the scripture. Like most preachers, he is also somewhat opinionated. That doesn't make him a heretic. A heretic could not be an influential evangelist, and Hagee is clearly that, despite your disagreements with him, which are only based on your personal biases in the way you interpret scripture. I watch his preaching frequently, and I've never heard him say anything that wasn't consistent with the Word of God. Effective evangelists are not heretics, and Hagee is an effective evangelist.

DeeJay
12-05-2006, 06:46 PM
He's clearly not a heretic, unless you want to concede that God is endorsing his heresy by allowing him to be such an effective evangelist. Cornerstone Church wins more people over 16 years of age to Christ than any dozen Baptist churches combined. If he were a heretic, that wouldn't be happening.

That is a dangerous way to judge if a church has correct theology or not. Especially considering the number of converts to the LDS and Catholic churches.

hillclimber1
12-05-2006, 06:52 PM
He's clearly not a heretic, unless you want to concede that God is endorsing his heresy by allowing him to be such an effective evangelist. Cornerstone Church wins more people over 16 years of age to Christ than any dozen Baptist churches combined. If he were a heretic, that wouldn't be happening.

The Muslims are gaining enough converts (wins people) to make Hagee look tiny. They are effective. They convert far more prisoners to allah than any Christian organization to Christ. Are they not heretical?

hillclimber1
12-05-2006, 06:53 PM
I don't know Hagee at all, and didn't intend to slight him.

webdog
12-05-2006, 11:13 PM
He does not preach what you think is the Word of God.

An effective evangelist is one who has a track record of winning people to Christ. Paul was rejected, stoned, persecuted and thrown in prison. He was not necessarily popular as a whole, but he won thousands of people to Christ. If you cannot point to very many converts to Christ as a result of your evangelistic ministry, sorry, you are not an effective evangelist.

Hagee is not popular with the world at large. He preaches the hard truth of the gospel, from the scripture. Like most preachers, he is also somewhat opinionated. That doesn't make him a heretic. A heretic could not be an influential evangelist, and Hagee is clearly that, despite your disagreements with him, which are only based on your personal biases in the way you interpret scripture. I watch his preaching frequently, and I've never heard him say anything that wasn't consistent with the Word of God. Effective evangelists are not heretics, and Hagee is an effective evangelist.
Good post. Unfortunately some feel that a heretic is someone who's soteriology and eschatology doesn't agree with. Using this standard, you could call anyone on here a heretic...including the ones who use this word the most.

Joseph_Botwinick
12-06-2006, 09:59 PM
He does not preach what you think is the Word of God.

An effective evangelist is one who has a track record of winning people to Christ. Paul was rejected, stoned, persecuted and thrown in prison. He was not necessarily popular as a whole, but he won thousands of people to Christ. If you cannot point to very many converts to Christ as a result of your evangelistic ministry, sorry, you are not an effective evangelist.

Hagee is not popular with the world at large. He preaches the hard truth of the gospel, from the scripture. Like most preachers, he is also somewhat opinionated. That doesn't make him a heretic. A heretic could not be an influential evangelist, and Hagee is clearly that, despite your disagreements with him, which are only based on your personal biases in the way you interpret scripture. I watch his preaching frequently, and I've never heard him say anything that wasn't consistent with the Word of God. Effective evangelists are not heretics, and Hagee is an effective evangelist.

1. Paul did not win anyone to Christ. God drew them all to him and saved the elect. He merely used Paul as his vessel for mercy.

2. Winning converts does not an effective evangelist make. Jim Jones had many converts. Those who preach the Word of God without compromise regardless of the response are the ones who are successful and effective evangelists. The rest are simply heretics...and Haggee is one of them.

Joseph Botwinick

El_Guero
12-07-2006, 12:00 AM
This may not be exact, but hagee has never been exact.

He is a gluttonous fundamentalist defrocked (& excommunicated ?) AG preacher.

Something like that.

A couple of other good choice words could be added . . .

Wayne

What type of church/denomination would you consider John Hagee to be?

Is he a fundamentalist? I have never heard anyone talk about what they think his theology is. thanks

El_Guero
12-07-2006, 12:05 AM
Oh yes, that old litmus test . . . does he sound good.

OK.

Has he ever done what he preaches . . . ?

See ya'!


He does not preach what you think is the Word of God.

An effective evangelist is one who has a track record of winning people to Christ. Paul was rejected, stoned, persecuted and thrown in prison. He was not necessarily popular as a whole, but he won thousands of people to Christ. If you cannot point to very many converts to Christ as a result of your evangelistic ministry, sorry, you are not an effective evangelist.

Hagee is not popular with the world at large. He preaches the hard truth of the gospel, from the scripture. Like most preachers, he is also somewhat opinionated. That doesn't make him a heretic. A heretic could not be an influential evangelist, and Hagee is clearly that, despite your disagreements with him, which are only based on your personal biases in the way you interpret scripture. I watch his preaching frequently, and I've never heard him say anything that wasn't consistent with the Word of God. Effective evangelists are not heretics, and Hagee is an effective evangelist.

El_Guero
12-07-2006, 12:06 AM
PS

Haggee is NOT an EFFECTIVE evangelist.

He IS a great showman.

Jesus Is Real
12-07-2006, 12:24 AM
PS

Haggee is NOT an EFFECTIVE evangelist.

He IS a great showman.

*show....*

In Truth:
A great Hivite nation, eh? Your right, Wayne.

Well Joshua made them hewers of water and
tree cutters in the Camp of Israel and so they
are with us today. And they are drawing out a
watered down Gospel that is hype and show to
others and are in full rebellion as their name: Hivite.
But to God's People in Christ they are clearly known
in the Camp. And many are being lied to because they
are not 'asking counsel' from The Lord of Glory.

In Repentance:
But I just want that full nation out of my own heart as
God leads by His Spirit little by little (Deut 7:1-7 and Rom 8:13-14)
or I too will perish as others are.

In Hope:
In patience we will possess our own souls if we hold back
from pointing the finger at others, so that God might Evangelize
us all over again.

Peace,
Connie

webdog
12-07-2006, 08:36 AM
This may not be exact, but hagee has never been exact.

He is a gluttonous fundamentalist defrocked (& excommunicated ?) AG preacher.

Something like that.

A couple of other good choice words could be added . . .

Wayne
Empty allegations, Wayne, without sources. This constitutes slander and gossip.

Rufus_1611
12-07-2006, 09:24 AM
Empty allegations, Wayne, without sources. This constitutes slander and gossip.

I doubt that sources are required to determine that Hagee is gluttonous. However, I certainly don't believe him to be a fundamentalist and I don't think he has proclaimed to be either. I see him as being an evangelical Christian Zionist who comes from a charismatic background and walks together with Benny Hinn. The Houston Chronicle has quoted Hagee as promoting a Jewish salvation and a Christian salvation (dual-covenant) but Hagee later denied saying these things so who knows. As to being excommunicated from an AG, I hadn't heard that.

El_Guero
12-07-2006, 09:41 AM
YOU slander the truth? Then support YOUR slander with lies . . .

;)

Was he not AG? (This is actually the only part that I am not possitive of . . . because I am NOT AG myself.)

When do YOU believe that he was not set aside?

Why do YOU believe that he was not set aside?

Maybe before YOU make empty and vain allegations, YOU should ask yourself: "Why would a pastor leave his church and sell washing machines."




Empty allegations, Wayne, without sources. This constitutes slander and gossip.

Slander is untruth - show it.

Gossip is maliciously spreading the lies or the truth.

I am not being malicious - but, I am letting folks know that if God can work through a man that has done what he has done . . .

God can work through you! I think Haggee is more conservative than you are showing yourself to be . . .

;)

Yes, that might be a cheap shot . . . but, at least my cheap shot was true.

El_Guero
12-07-2006, 09:47 AM
I believe that after being removed from his church . . . he sold washing machines until he got tired of AG discipline . . . saw that he made more money selling God than appliances . . . needed to put food on the table for his family . . . and started his own church . . .

Then again, I could be entirely wrong . . . this south Texan could be wrong . . . But, I reallllllly doubt it.


I doubt that sources are required to determine that Hagee is gluttonous. However, I certainly don't believe him to be a fundamentalist and I don't think he has proclaimed to be either. I see him as being an evangelical Christian Zionist who comes from a charismatic background and walks together with Benny Hinn. The Houston Chronicle has quoted Hagee as promoting a Jewish salvation and a Christian salvation (dual-covenant) but Hagee later denied saying these things so who knows. As to being excommunicated from an AG, I hadn't heard that.

webdog
12-07-2006, 10:16 AM
YOU slander the truth? Then support YOUR slander with lies . . .

;)

Was he not AG? (This is actually the only part that I am not possitive of . . . because I am NOT AG myself.)

When do YOU believe that he was not set aside?

Why do YOU believe that he was not set aside?

Maybe before YOU make empty and vain allegations, YOU should ask yourself: "Why would a pastor leave his church and sell washing machines."






Slander is untruth - show it.

Gossip is maliciously spreading the lies or the truth.

I am not being malicious - but, I am letting folks know that if God can work through a man that has done what he has done . . .

God can work through you! I think Haggee is more conservative than you are showing yourself to be . . .

;)

Yes, that might be a cheap shot . . . but, at least my cheap shot was true.
You made the claims, it is up to you to "show it"...not me. As the saying goes "...put up, or shut up..." ;)

Your cheap shot was just that...and not true in the least. You showed your true colors.

webdog
12-07-2006, 10:16 AM
I believe that after being removed from his church . . . he sold washing machines until he got tired of AG discipline . . . saw that he made more money selling God than appliances . . . needed to put food on the table for his family . . . and started his own church . . .

Then again, I could be entirely wrong . . . this south Texan could be wrong . . . But, I reallllllly doubt it.
"You believe" means squat. Source?

El_Guero
12-07-2006, 10:22 AM
You made the claims, it is up to you to "show it"...not me. As the saying goes "...put up, or shut up..." ;)

Your cheap shot was just that...and not true in the least. You showed your true colors.

Oh is that it? Lie and then blame those that know better.

You CLAIMED slander - YOU can only claim that if YOU HAVE PROOF.

Show me!

Show me just how good of a man YOUR hagee is . . .

C'mon. You said it . . . I called your bluff.

Put up or shut up.

Either you do not know anything at all and are slanderous, or you are telling the truth . . . which is it?

webdog
12-07-2006, 10:30 AM
Oh is that it? Lie and then blame those that know better.

You CLAIMED slander - YOU can only claim that if YOU HAVE PROOF.

Show me!

Show me just how good of a man YOUR hagee is . . .

C'mon. You said it . . . I called your bluff.

Put up or shut up.

Either you do not know anything at all and are slanderous, or you are telling the truth . . . which is it?
Since you are only interested in vitriol, I will repeat what I stated initially...
Empty allegations, Wayne, without sources. This constitutes slander and gossip.
I'm awaiting your sources, but until the mean time my comment stands, whether you like it or not. You need to step back into reality (YOUR hagee... :rolleyes: )

El_Guero
12-07-2006, 10:33 AM
Since you are only interested in vitriol, I will repeat what I stated initially...

I'm awaiting your sources, but until the mean time my comment stands, whether you like it or not. You need to step back into reality (YOUR hagee... :rolleyes: )

When I show where you are wrong . . . what can ya' do?

Remove your empty allegations?

Apologize?

What will YOU do to remove the lies that YOU have told?

webdog
12-07-2006, 10:35 AM
:BangHead: Can't do anything until you prove SOMETHING! Try that first, and we'll go from there! Show where I "lied" about anything? :laugh: You are something else!

El_Guero
12-07-2006, 10:37 AM
:BangHead: Can't do anything until you prove SOMETHING! Try that first, and we'll go from there! Show where I "lied" about anything? :laugh: You are something else!

I just love it when someone steps up and then says, "But, really - I am not a man."

:BangHead:

If hagee was in cincinatti . . . do ya' think I would be talkin' about YOUR hagee?

Maybe YOU should find prettier poster boys.

webdog
12-07-2006, 10:43 AM
What in the world are you talking about? Is the sun a little too hot there in Texas, or something?

Sources? Hello? Still waiting... [JEOPARDY theme]

Try spending some time finding SOMETHING to back your allegations instead of attacking me, ok?

El_Guero
12-07-2006, 10:49 AM
IF I had made an allegation of one of your local pastors . . . I could understand your interest.

I am a South Texan.

I know the story of Hagee.

You do not.

There is no need for an allegation on my part.

Stop your slander.

If you would take the time to look up YOUR allegations before lying and saying that I would slander, you would already know the rest of the story.

What does Trinity Church have to do with Cleveland?

Why did hagee leave trinity?

Still waiting. Support YOUR hagee if you can.

El_Guero
12-07-2006, 10:53 AM
I reckon that this is a cultural difference of opinion.

In South Texas, a man would never call another man a slanderer without knowing the slander to be slander. A man would not call another man a liar without knowing the truth.

As a Southerner, had I been so stupid as to call you a slanderous liar, I would have been smart enough to google the subject and maker certain that I was telling the truth.

I reckon that does not hold true where you are at.

I apologize for expecting you to believe in truth.

El_Guero
12-07-2006, 11:05 AM
You cannot support your hagee.

Hagee was asked to step down from Trinity Church in San Antonio because of impropriety.

He divorced his wife and married a woman that he had become close to.

He sold appliances (this is from what I have been told).

He decided that he could make more money as a preacher than an appliance salesman . . . and went back into ministry WITHOUT the approval of the AG.

I believe his first wife was Martha. And the woman that most believe led to his leaving his first wife is now his second wife.

The information is out there . . . Houston Chronicle did an article on him about 10 years ago.

Then again, I am from here.

And as few references as there are still out online, I am surprised that this one is still out there: http://www.ondoctrine.com/10giving.htm

The information must be aging out . . .

El_Guero
12-07-2006, 11:17 AM
Still waiting . . .

You must be busy chasing down and removing all of the allegations that you threw around . . .

Jack Matthews
12-07-2006, 02:34 PM
The Muslims are gaining enough converts (wins people) to make Hagee look tiny. They are effective. They convert far more prisoners to allah than any Christian organization to Christ. Are they not heretical?

Yes, muslims to convert people, but to Islam, not Christianity. Therefore, they are heretical. Hagee wins people to Christ. If he were a heretic, would he be successful in doing that? No, I do not believe a heretic would successfully bring people to Christ. Hagee does. Do you get the difference?

thjplgvp
12-07-2006, 02:53 PM
To quote from Wayne's mentioned article.

John Hagee
Pastor of the Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, Texas, speaker on TBN, and making frequent appearances with Benny Hinn, John Hagee has become a superstar on the Word of Faith circuit. Previously, the pastor of Trinity Church in San Antonio, Texas from 1976 to 1987, he had an adulterous affair that resulted in a divorce from his wife Martha and loss of his two children to her custody. Marrying his adulterous lover, Diana Castro, they started their own family and then, became the heads of the Cornerstone Church.

John Hagee, although supporting strongly the nation of Israel, holds to a strange double standard regarding the salvation of the Jewish people. Stating that they have their own covenant with God, the gospel of Jesus Christ does not apply to them and he does not advocate their evangelization.
"I believe that every Jewish person who lives in the light of the Torah, which is the word of God, has a relationship with God and will come to redemption."
"San Antonio Fundamentalist Battles Anti-Semitism," Houston Chronicle, April 30, 1988, sec. 6, pg. 1.

Apparently the apostles, who evangelized their own Jewish nation, were either ignorant or deceived and wasted their time preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ to them. The words of the apostle Paul must not mean what he said, "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek," Romans 1:16 (NAS).


thjplgvp

webdog
12-07-2006, 03:10 PM
Still waiting . . .

You must be busy chasing down and removing all of the allegations that you threw around . . .
Yeah, because I have nothing better to do than play your childish games. Grow up.

I see you have turned this into attacking me instead of supporting your claims with PROOF. Figures.

El_Guero
12-07-2006, 03:33 PM
He is a character . . . But, I know that if God will use men like that - God can use men like us. Not being prideful - just honest.

I have found that most of his church members are pretty good people. And I have found that most people that watch him on TV are not near as good as the people that go to his church. I do not know what the difference is . . .

But, what a difficult past for a preacher to get past . . . I had a friend that still resented him . . . I have to wonder if all the fun and money he has had over the last 20+ years was worth what it cost the members of God's family at Trinity Church.


I pray that we do not fail God in that manner.


To quote from Wayne's mentioned article.

John Hagee
Pastor of the Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, Texas, speaker on TBN, and making frequent appearances with Benny Hinn, John Hagee has become a superstar on the Word of Faith circuit. Previously, the pastor of Trinity Church in San Antonio, Texas from 1976 to 1987, he had an adulterous affair that resulted in a divorce from his wife Martha and loss of his two children to her custody. Marrying his adulterous lover, Diana Castro, they started their own family and then, became the heads of the Cornerstone Church.

John Hagee, although supporting strongly the nation of Israel, holds to a strange double standard regarding the salvation of the Jewish people. Stating that they have their own covenant with God, the gospel of Jesus Christ does not apply to them and he does not advocate their evangelization.
"I believe that every Jewish person who lives in the light of the Torah, which is the word of God, has a relationship with God and will come to redemption."
"San Antonio Fundamentalist Battles Anti-Semitism," Houston Chronicle, April 30, 1988, sec. 6, pg. 1.

Apparently the apostles, who evangelized their own Jewish nation, were either ignorant or deceived and wasted their time preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ to them. The words of the apostle Paul must not mean what he said, "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek," Romans 1:16 (NAS).


thjplgvp

FundamentalOnly!
12-08-2006, 05:50 PM
El Guero,

Did you read about his 2,000,000.00 Hunting lodge and preserve called the "Rabbis retreat or something to that effect.

Also something about how he made 9,000 an hour in one of his tax free ministrys as an employee.


I was curious about his exact theology since he picks out his sermons for Tv and I am sure that you dont get the whole picture. thanks

El_Guero
12-08-2006, 09:42 PM
There is a lot about him . . . it is always amazing to me that there are those that will defend him, but will not share Him with those around them.

Now don't get me wrong, he preaches a very conservative sermon. But, it is his actions and the actions of those that follow him that worry me.

God bless

Wayne
PS - how about his $1 million plus salary . . .
I would not mind him tithing to my church plant . . .


El Guero,

Did you read about his 2,000,000.00 Hunting lodge and preserve called the "Rabbis retreat or something to that effect.

Also something about how he made 9,000 an hour in one of his tax free ministrys as an employee.

I was curious about his exact theology since he picks out his sermons for Tv and I am sure that you dont get the whole picture. thanks