"I am both Muslim and Christian"

[PastorSBC1303]

"I am both Muslim and Christian (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003751274_redding17m.html)"

Thoughts?

[Scarlett O.]

She said that she could be both Muslim and Christian in the way that she was both 100% African American and 100% woman at the same time.

Faulty analogy.

She can claim both her gender and her race. They are two separate characterisitics that she possesses.

She cannot serve two masters.........at least that's what I've read in the bible. And I'll take God at His Word on that. :thumbs:

[mcdirector]

Could it be like I am Christian and Jewish?

Spiritual and heritage?

What's the context? Ya gotta give us more!

[Scarlett O.]

Could it be like I am Christian and Jewish?

Spiritual and heritage?

What's the context? Ya gotta give us more!

Hey, Bitsy.....read the link! :thumbs:

[rbell]

"I am both Muslim and Christian (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003751274_redding17m.html)"

Thoughts?

A proverb and an exhortation for our 'christoislamic hybrid' come to mind:

The proverb: "The only thing in the 'middle of the road' are yellow lines and dead armadillos."
The exhortation: Pee or get off the pot. Pick the Truth (Way and Life as well) or error. Choose one. You choose both? That's error.

[mcdirector]

Hey, Bitsy.....read the link! :thumbs:

Well, Duh! I've been sitting all day! I don't know why that makes the brain so useless ;)

[mcdirector]

Well! That's one of the silliest things I've ever read and why in the world one of them didn't kick her out is silly too! Doesn't someone in either place know what they believe!?!

[mcdirector]

Pee or get off the pot.

Can we say that out in the open?

I agree btw

[Amy.G]

Can we say that out in the open?

I agree btw
You can say it out in the open, as long as you don't do it out in the open! :laugh:

[Chemnitz]

I can't say what I think. Which probably means I shouldn't even think it.

Islam and Christianity are mutually exclusive and the horse pile the one prof shoveled about some regarding Christ divinity as his embodiment of God's love isn't even Christianity.

[Rufus_1611]

A Muslim being a Christian is equivalent to a woman being a "Reverend" or bishop. One can force the matter and make people believe it is so but the word of God will get in the way of such claims. I pray that one day someone is able to witness to her about the gospel of Jesus Christ and that He gives her up to a sound mind, rather than the emotional experiences the adversary is whispering in her ear about.

What it was about, according to the "reverend" (Psalm 111:9)...

"It wasn't about intellect. All I know is the calling of my heart to Islam was very much something about my identity and who I am supposed to be." - Rev. Ann Holmes Redding

What profit is there in heeding the calling of one's heart?

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" - Jeremiah 17:9

Better it be that she listen to the calling of God and that calling is not in Mohammed...
"I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus." - Philippians 3:14

[Scarlett O.]

A Muslim being a Christian is equivalent to a woman being a "Reverend" or bishop.

What took you so long Rufus? We are already on post #12. :flower: :saint:

[Jkdbuck76]

You got it all wrong, people!

We're supposed to follow what feels good to us. because, after
all, what feels good to US is the ultimate factor in choosing what
is true.

See.... God is a giant galactic teddy bear and nothing makes
him/her mad. He/She is super-inclusive and doesn't mind anything
that we do because He/She loves us and wants to give us all
big giant hugs.

So what we want to mix spiritual dirt and ice cream; who are YOU
to judge?


Of course, you realize I'm being sarcastic.

[J. Jump]

Well I didn't read the link so I won't comment on this particular case, but I suspect it is at least possible for someone to be a Christian and Muslim at the same time. However, they probably wouldn't claim both although I may be surprised.

There might even be examples of this of people that accepted Christ at a younger age, but were then later deceived by the teachings of Islam later in life.

Again I doubt that person would claim to be a Christian while holding to Islamic teachings, but in that case they could be a Christian claiming and following Islamic teachings.

[mcdirector]

Well I didn't read the link so I won't comment on this particular case, but I suspect it is at least possible for someone to be a Christian and Muslim at the same time. However, they probably wouldn't claim both although I may be surprised.

There might even be examples of this of people that accepted Christ at a younger age, but were then later deceived by the teachings of Islam later in life.

Again I doubt that person would claim to be a Christian while holding to Islamic teachings, but in that case they could be a Christian claiming and following Islamic teachings.

This gal is doing both simultaneously.

[mcdirector]

You got it all wrong, people!

We're supposed to follow what feels good to us. because, after
all, what feels good to US is the ultimate factor in choosing what
is true.

See.... God is a giant galactic teddy bear and nothing makes
him/her mad. He/She is super-inclusive and doesn't mind anything
that we do because He/She loves us and wants to give us all
big giant hugs.

So what we want to mix spiritual dirt and ice cream; who are YOU
to judge?


Of course, you realize I'm being sarcastic.

You could have just hit the sarcasm button donchano ;)

(I'm kidding)

[Rufus_1611]

What took you so long Rufus? We are already on post #12. :flower: :saint: Old age. :)

[J.D.]

It's like grapenuts. It's neither grape nor nuts. And she's neither christian nor muslim as far as I'm concerned.

For sure, you can't be both. I have right in front of me an Islamic pamphlet given to me by a fellow worker that is a mulsim. It's says in plane English: "Muslims do not believe in the Christian theory know as substitutionary atonement."

End of case, don't you think?

[James_Newman]

She is a pioneering member of a new faith called the last days one world church of Antichrist. Everyone is welcome, except for these fundies who won't welcome everyone.

[J. Jump]

This gal is doing both simultaneously.
Well I guess she might fit into the scenario that I gave. Maybe she was saved via Scriptures and then was deceived by the Isalmic teachings and is trying to have it both ways.

Or maybe she grew up Muslim and was introduced to the Truth, but hasn't fully weeded out the error yet.

Not sure :).

[DQuixote]

Somewhere I read about stuff like this happening in the last days. And, with all this "there is no truth" "everything is relative" stuff overwhelming schools, colleges, universities, and not a few off-the-wall church groups, I'm not surprised that "some" support her. Whoope. They have their reward.

[EdSutton]

"I am both Muslim and Christian (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003751274_redding17m.html)"

Thoughts? I have read the article, and a related article, as well about this.

I do not often drop this word, but frankly, the position of "the Reverend Ann Holmes Redding" is heresy.

Enough said.

Ed

[EdSutton]

She is a pioneering member of a new faith called the last days one world church of Antichrist. Everyone is welcome, except for these fundies who won't welcome everyone. Good summation.

(Is "summation" an actual word?? Language Cop is already asleep, so I can't ask him at the moment.)

Ed

[StefanM]

I have read the article, and a related article, as well about this.

I do not often drop this word, but frankly, the position of "the Reverend Ann Holmes Redding" is heresy.

Enough said.

Ed

Actually, heresy isn't strong enough of a word.

[BobRyan]

"I am both Muslim and Christian (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003751274_redding17m.html)"

Thoughts?

Wow - fascinating article. Makes perfect sense!

I ask the objective reader to pay attention to the salient points in the link.

A few key ones come to mind


Redding, who until recently was director of faith formation at St. Mark's Episcopal Cathedral, has been a priest for more than 20 years. Now she's ready to tell people that, for the last 15 months, she's also been a Muslim — drawn to the faith after an introduction to Islamic prayers left her profoundly moved.
...
Redding, who will begin teaching the New Testament as a visiting assistant professor at Seattle University this fall, has a different analogy: "I am both Muslim and Christian, just like I'm both an American of African descent and a woman. I'm 100 percent both."

Redding doesn't feel she has to resolve all the contradictions. People within one religion can't even agree on all the details, she said. "So why would I spend time to try to reconcile all of Christian belief with all of Islam?
"At the most basic level, I understand the two religions to be compatible. That's all I need."

Question: What do Episcopalians teach as "The most basic level" of fact that is actually true and reliable "in detail" when reading scripture?

Question - what Do Episcopalians teach that would allow for this level of "flexibility" in understanding the Christian faith EVEN if the person teaching was not inclined to be Muslim?

Question: What do you suppose is the "orthodox standard" view of the accuracy and believability of the NT text at Seattle University?

Answer: The Bible at it's most basic level is not factually true in detail but is true "in general principle" in that it is culturally and emotionally "uplifting" to the human spirit.

Throw out Genesis creation, fall, flood, Babel... stories since they are not factually accurate in their details - accept them as cultural myths that teach a more general yet basic spiritual moral.

Throw out any and all miracles found in places like the book of Acts since they are not historical truth - but rather historical myth designed to address cultural and spiritual needs of the human spirit. Declare that the "Fact" that IS reliable and true is that these writings are "culturally significant literary works" allegory used to teach a basic general morality and principle. The only real question for them when reading that kind of liturature is "What MOVES you"? A painting, a poem, a curious reading from the NT?.

(Remember no respected humanist, agnostic, or atheist-darwinist-believing historian is going to accept the accounts of miracles in the book of Acts or NT writings as "factually accurate" in details).

(Note how similar this "what moves you" lingering motivator is to some of the pro-RC testimonies we have seen on this thread? How similar is the current RC view of scripture to the Episcopalian view of the accuracy in scripture? hmmmm)

Given this as the "starting position" for many Episcopalian clergy - what GAP is left when bridging that watered-down downsized view of the Word of God to Islam??

How much WORSE of a hatchet job COULD Islam possibly be doing to scripture??

Think about it!!

in Christ,

Bob

[Matt Black]

She is a heretic and needs our prayers. The Bishop of Washington should fire her and she should return to the pews until she knows better.

[mcdirector]

I sent this to my Lutheran friend yesterday. Her first queston was the same as mine -- why hasn't she been defrocked?

15 months is a long time for her church to look the other way? Why hasn't someone in her congregation pitched a fit? Why does she still have a congregation?

[Matt Black]

By way of answer, here's a piece of liturgy to explain How the Anglican Communion Works:-

Bishop of Washington (for it is he): Dearly Beloved, we are gathered here today in the presence of Almighty God [or here he may say "Allah" depending on which way the wind's blowing] to remember the theologically confused, the Christologically heteredox and the downright heretical of this Diocese.

All: You're not kidding, mate!

Bishop[Greeting]: There's something wrong with this minister

All: And also with you

[A Redding (surely 'reading'?) shall then be taken from the pulpit and be defrocked and returned to the pews in civvies. Or she may not...]

Bishop: It's all a bit complicated really, I'm rather old and silly and I'm about to retire, and I expect my predecessor will be a bit more robust about this sort of thing.

All: Thanks be to God

[mcdirector]

By way of answer, here's a piece of liturgy to explain How the Anglican Communion Works:-

Bishop of Washington (for it is he): Dearly Beloved, we are gathered here today in the presence of Almighty God [or here he may say "Allah" depending on which way the wind's blowing] to remember the theologically confused, the Christologically heteredox and the downright heretical of this Diocese.

All: You're not kidding, mate!

Bishop[Greeting]: There's something wrong with this minister

All: And also with you

[A Redding (surely 'reading'?) shall then be taken from the pulpit and be defrocked and returned to the pews in civvies. Or she may not...]

Bishop: It's all a bit complicated really, I'm rather old and silly and I'm about to retire, and I expect my predecessor will be a bit more robust about this sort of thing.

All: Thanks be to God

Well, heaven help us!

[Matt Black]

Well, rather like Treebeard in Lord of the Rings, we Anglicans don't do anything 'hastily'

[mcdirector]

Well, rather like Treebeard in Lord of the Rings, we Anglicans don't do anything 'hastily'

Ha! Obviously ;)

I kindof like old Treebeard, but in this case . . .

[LadyEagle]

She is a pioneering member of a new faith called the last days one world church of Antichrist. Everyone is welcome, except for these fundies who won't welcome everyone.

You are absolutely correct. It is happening before our eyes - Bible prophecy being fulfilled right before us.

[BobRyan]

It is EASY to spin this around with blinders on to "hey one Episcopalian priest has a problem".

But consider that what is being done is in fact a LOGICAL outcome built upon prior steps ALL being taken by Christains today and many of them being taken by Christians on this board!


Question: What do Episcopalians teach as "The most basic level" of fact that is actually true and reliable "in detail" when reading scripture?

Question - what Do Episcopalians teach that would allow for this level of "flexibility" in understanding the Christian faith EVEN if the person teaching was not inclined to be Muslim?

Question: What do you suppose is the "orthodox standard" view of the accuracy and believability of the NT text at Seattle University?

Answer: The Bible at it's most basic level is not factually true in detail but is true "in general principle" in that it is culturally and emotionally "uplifting" to the human spirit.

Throw out Genesis creation, fall, flood, Babel... stories since they are not factually accurate in their details - accept them as cultural myths that teach a more general yet basic spiritual moral.

Throw out any and all miracles found in places like the book of Acts since they are not historical truth - but rather historical myth designed to address cultural and spiritual needs of the human spirit. Declare that the "Fact" that IS reliable and true is that these writings are "culturally significant literary works" allegory used to teach a basic general morality and principle. The only real question for them when reading that kind of liturature is "What MOVES you"? A painting, a poem, a curious reading from the NT?.

(Remember no respected humanist, agnostic, or atheist-darwinist-believing historian is going to accept the accounts of miracles in the book of Acts or NT writings as "factually accurate" in details).

(Note how similar this "what moves you" lingering motivator is to some of the pro-RC testimonies we have seen on this thread? How similar is the current RC view of scripture to the Episcopalian view of the accuracy in scripture? hmmmm)

Given this as the "starting position" for many Episcopalian clergy - what GAP is left when bridging that watered-down downsized view of the Word of God to Islam??

How much WORSE of a hatchet job COULD Islam possibly be doing to scripture??

Think about it!!

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

She may be a Muslim but she isn't a Christian. And unless she repents she will stand before the One True And Living God just before He sends her to her god. May God have mercy on her.

[BobRyan]

If you read the article carefully you will find that BEFORE she became Muslim the Islamic religious leaders where invited to her church several times to teach and to lead out in prayers.

You will also find that the Episcopal leadership was interviewed and was not opposed to her position. Although it is easy to target this one priest as though SHE is the problem - it simply is not the case.

In the teaching institutions of many liberal denominations Christianity itself is experiencing a meltdown at the basic doctrinal level where the Bible is no longer accepted as a reliable trustworthy source.

That is true with atheist-darwinism vs the Genesis account for the origin of all life on earth.

That true with almost all other OT accounts that involve miracles and that is true with the vast majority of NT accounts involving miracles.

The "it could be" and "some scholar's believe" arguments have taken over the liberal denominations so that in that context - finding this bridge to Islam is not at all unnexpected.

in Christ,

Bob