Read the book of Jude: fellow fundamentalists

[Jillian]

I believe the times it describes are now, as we are moving into the Last Days.

Notice on this board, how many so called Baptists are in support of uniting with Rome. Dont let the liberal Prots. and other unity defenders fool you, many do claim there are some errors, but still rush to defend Momma Rome!

How many Baptist churches have now sold out to follow the siren call of Rick Warren [who is technically Southern Bpatist] and others? Remember RIck preaches the same Dominionist save THIS WORLD, collectivism, and join with the UN, as does the Pope.

Rick Warren after all signed the latest paper with the Muslims where he like the Pope and other false evangelical leaders declared Allah of Islam as being God. {Its in Nostra Aetate and repeated by the Popes for the RCC}

I believe the Great Falling away is NOW. And many fundamentalists are finding themselves without a church home, as so many churches have now compromised.

This is why so many good solid BIble Believers and those who love Jesus Christ cannot find a church home.
My years in my last one I didnt know how fortunate I was to be in a church that adhered to God's Word.


The book of Jude is one that is the best to read to explain all this, and read in prayer.
Quote:
The Book of Jude
by Chuck Missler
PURSUE THIS TOPIC:
RESOURCES
Jude
ARTICLES
Mischievous Angels or Sethites?

This smallest book of the New Testament is also, in many ways, the most provocative.

The Roots Go Deep

The Epistle of Jude is a tiny book, tragically neglected by students, yet overflowing with fascinating Old Testament references and allusions: lessons from Israel in the Wilderness,1 the angels that sinned,2 the strange events in Sodom and Gomorrah,3 Michael and Satan's contention over the body of Moses,4 and other insights from Cain, Balaam, Korah,5 as well as the mysterious person known as Enoch.6

It is surprising to learn of allusions to events in the Old Testament that are only found in the New Testament: the Second Coming prophecy of Enoch, 7 that Noah was a preacher of righteousness, 8 the names of the two magicians in Egypt, 9 that Elijah prayed to stop rain for 3 1/2 years, 10 and that the Pharaoh of the Exodus was not Egyptian. 11

One of the more mysterious allusions in Jude is about the dispute between Michael and Satan over the body of Moses. Why were they both interested in Moses' body? (There are over 500 Old Testament references to Moses: only one refers to his body.12) Is there a relationship between the mountain containing Moses' sepulchre and Elijah's departure?

The Real Reason

Why study the book of Jude? Because it is written for us today. It is written for the end times, for the end of the Church Age. The beginning of the Church Age was, of course, the Acts of the Apostles. However, the end of the Church Age might be called the Acts of the Apostates. Jude is the only book devoted entirely to the great apostasy.13 "Shall the Son of Man find faith on the Earth?"14

Jude is the "vestibule" to the book of Revelation. It includes the oldest prophecy uttered by a prophet: of the Second Coming of Christ, declared before the flood of Noah! There are four facts emphasized:

1) We know the Lord's coming is sure;

2) We know who will accompany the Lord;

3) We know the purpose of His coming;

4) We know the result of the Lord's coming.

This letter was written by the "brother of James," one of four brothers of Jesus.15 (James was the head of the church in Jerusalem; neither James nor Jude were among The Twelve; they didn't believe at first.16)

Why did Jude write this letter? James' epistle deals with good works as evidence of saving faith; Jude's letter deals with evil works as evidence of apostasy. Why must we contend for the faith? Because there are tares among the wheat,17 false brethren have stolen into the church,18 and the saints are in peril, 19 all due to the "doctrines of demons." 20 This letter was written for the church in the end times. This letter was written for us today.

I TOTALLY AGREE!

[Squire Robertsson]

Just remember this when earnestly contending for The Faith. Others will not contend for The Faith using the exact same tactics and strategies you use. The operative words in the previous sentence are "exact same".

Bradley, Patton, Montgomery, Holland Smith, Eisenhower, and MacArthur all fought on the same side. Much of the discussion today about the men centers on the fact none were clones of the other. Don't even get me started on the Monty\Patton split.

[tinytim]

Jillian, you paint with too wide a brush...

I have went through 40 days of purpose, and our church grew spiritually with it.. granted all churches don't...

You need to narrow down your concerns to what really bothers you...
There are good Christians on all sides and Squire is right..

We are all fighting Satan..
But when you come on here ready to fight one another, it destroys unity... We are on the same side...
Maybe not fighting the same way... but still fighting Satan...

[Ed Edwards]

I believe the times it describes are now, as we are moving into the Last Days.
...
Amen, Brother Jillian -- Preach it! :thumbs:

In fact, we have been IN THE LAST DAYS
since the day of Pentacost AD0033 (some say
AD0030 or AAD0028). 2007 - 33 = 1, 974 years
and continuing as long as the Lord Tarries.

Act 2:15 -21 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition):
For these are not drunken, as yee suppose,
since it is but the third houre of the day.
16 But this is that, which was spoken by the Prophet Ioel,
17 And it shalbe in the last daies, saith God,
I wil powre out of my Spirite vpon al flesh,
and your sonnes, and your daughters shall prophecie,
and your yong men shall see visions,
and your old men shall dreame dreames.
18 And on my seruauntes, and on mine handmaides
I will powre out of my Spirite in those daies, and they
shall prophecie.
19 And I wil shew wonders in heauen aboue, and tokens
in the earth beneath, blood, and fire, and the vapour of smoke.
20 The Sunne shalbe turned into darkenesse, and the moone
into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come.
21 And it shalbe, that whosoeuer shall
call on the Name of the Lord, shalbe saued.

This clearly states that on the Day of Pentacost that
Peter says that the Last Days begin.

I have proof, if anybody is interested that
Matthew 24:4-14 describes the Last Days.
As long as these signs in Matthew 24:4-14 continue,
then The Last Days continue.

I believe The Last Days (aka: Times of the Gentiles, the Gentile age,
the Age of the Gentiles, the Age of Grace /see Acts 2:21 above/, etc.)
will end with the pretribulation rapture of the mostly Gentile,
saved, redeemed, elect saints.

[Salamander]

Doesn't RW deny the necessity for the Blood to accomplish redemption>??

[standingfirminChrist]

Doesn't RW deny the necessity for the Blood to accomplish redemption>??

You weren't supposed to bring up that fact, Salamander!

[Squire Robertsson]

Can we leave that to a Rick Warren thread?

[TCGreek]

I'm doing a Wednesday night study of the book of Jude---I'd be glad to share my feeble notes. :thumbs:

[LeBuick]

I'm doing a Wednesday night study of the book of Jude---I'd be glad to share my feeble notes. :thumbs:

Please do.

[C4K]

Just remember this when earnestly contending for The Faith. Others will not contend for The Faith using the exact same tactics and strategies you use. The operative words in the previous sentence are "exact same".




Thank you Squire for these words of wisdom.

[Fred Moritz]

I believe that Jude not only urges us to contend for the faith, but he also outlines in very positive fashion the character of New Testament Christianity. I am now "tooting my own horn," but ask you to read my book Contending for the Faith (Greenville, SC, Bob Jones University Press, 2000) for a development of that theme.

Fred Moritz

[C4K]

I think at times "contending for the faith" sadly turns into "contending with those of the faith we don't agree with."


Just for clarification this statement has nothing to do with Bro Moritz' excellent book which presents a wonderfully balanced view on the subject.

[Fred Moritz]

I think at times "contending for the faith" sadly turns into "contending for those of the faith we don't agree with."


Just for clarification this statement has nothing to do with Bro Moritz' excellent book which presents a wonderfully balanced view on the subject.


Right on, Roger. Thanks for your comment about my book. We have to contend for the faith. So many today are using this biblical command to breed a divisiveness that must grieve the Lord. On the other side, so many are so tolerant they are drifting toward a syncretism of the Gospel and the whole counsel of God.

[Jillian]

I believe that Jude not only urges us to contend for the faith, but he also outlines in very positive fashion the character of New Testament Christianity. I am now "tooting my own horn," but ask you to read my book Contending for the Faith (Greenville, SC, Bob Jones University Press, 2000) for a development of that theme.

Fred Moritz

Sure I will check it out.

[Jillian]

Right on, Roger. Thanks for your comment about my book. We have to contend for the faith. So many today are using this biblical command to breed a divisiveness that must grieve the Lord. On the other side, so many are so tolerant they are drifting toward a syncretism of the Gospel and the whole counsel of God.

I am united with every born again Christians and they do not have to even be fundie or even an Baptist. I have met Pentes, reformed, methodists and others who have been born again even Lutherans who while their church retains some RCC errors, because their church teaches salvation by faith, they are there.

Christians need to be united in that way.

However united with those under another gospel or interested in unity with the Pope, forget it!:)

[Mexdeaf]

I am united with every born again Christians and they do not have to even be fundie or even an Baptist. I have met Pentes, reformed, methodists and others who have been born again even Lutherans who while their church retains some RCC errors, because their church teaches salvation by faith, they are there.

Christians need to be united in that way.

However united with those under another gospel or interested in unity with the Pope, forget it!:)

Sounds like you have it right. :thumbs:

[Jillian]

Sounds like you have it right. :thumbs:

Thanks Mexdeaf :)

[TCGreek]

Please do.

1. Here are some notes from verses 8-10 (I have to get the previous offer my office computer):

Notes on Jude 8-10: Application: Three Sins Warranting Judgment

8 Yet in the same way these men—“these men” refers to the intruders who turned the grace of God into sensuality (v. 4). “These men” by “dreaming” defile the flesh, and reject authority and revile angelic majesties (2 Pet 2:9, 10)—the Greek participle enypniazomenoi—refers to dreams “as the medium of prophetic revelation” (Acts 2:17; Deut 13:4, 6)—governs all three verbs that follow, signifying that these intruders based their loose lifestyle on dreams they had received. Note also that the sins of the intruders parallel those of the OT examples in general terms (vv. 5-7).
Defile the flesh—this refers to their sexual perversion, as in the case of Sodom and Gomorrah—who “went after other flesh” (v. 7). The word “defile” is often used to refer to sexual sin in the OT (Gen 34:4, 13, 27; Lev 18:24, 27-28; Hos 5:6).
Reject authority—they rejected all authority, civil and spiritual—even Christ (v. 4). Schreiner thinks kyriotēs best points to the Lordship of Christ (v. 4). “Authority” is a reference to either: 1. human; 2. angels; 3. Lordship of God or Christ. Bauckham makes a solid case why kyriotēs refers to the Lord as in v. 4.
Revile angelic majesties—“angelic majesties” is the Greek word doxas, “glories.” We have the same problem as in 2 Peter 2:10—NIV renders it as “celestial bodies.” In both Peter and Jude, doxas is followed by a direct reference to angels. But why did they revile angels? Schreiner believes that these are demons and so were reviled by the intruders, because they thought the demons couldn’t hurt them. Bauckham, however, thinks these glories refer to angels, because the Law was mediated through angels (Acts 7:38, 53; Heb 2:2).

9 But Michael the archangel (archangelos)—Michael is considered in Scripture the chief angel of God who watches over Israel (Dan 10:13, 21; 12:1) and leads the holy angels (Rev 12:7).
When he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses—nowhere is this reference in Scripture (God buried the body of Moses, Deut 34:6). The only other such reference we have is in Daniel 10:13. Why did Satan want the body of Moses? Jewish belief says that because of Moses sin in killing an Egyptian.
Did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”—Jude uses this to illustrate the outrageous conduct of the intruders, who dared to revile angelic beings—not even Michael the archangel of God dare to do such, but left judgment to God (Zec 3:2). Within the scholarly community a consensus has been reached that Jude drew upon what is called the Assumption of Moses, an intertestamental work (Paul quotes philosophers in Acts 17:28; 1 Cor 15:33 and Titus 1:12).

10 But these men revile the things which they do not understand—they do not understand the angelic world; therefore, they should not revile angelic beings.
And the things which they know by instinct—their knowledge came instinctually. “Instinct” translates physikōs, with the more common meaning of “naturally.” The noun form of physikōs is physis, “nature” (Rom 2:27; Gal 2:15). Only by the Spirit of God can the natural man understand the things of God—things which God has prepared for those who love Him (1 Cor 2:9-16).
Like unreasoning animals—animals operate instinctually—by their natural endowment. Animals do not sit down and reason, or say, “Let me think about this for two or three days, before I make decision” (2 Pet 2:10-12).
By these things they are destroyed—these intruders, by their sensuality and blasphemous behavior, are bring destruction on themselves (2 Pet 2:12).

2. My Scripture references are primarily from the NASB and the NLTse. Works cited are from Richard Bauckham commentary on Jude and 2 Peter in the Word Biblical Commentary, and Thomas R. Schreiner commentary on 1, 2 Peter and Jude in the New American Commentary--both are excellent commentaries. I consulted Douglas Moo commentary on 2 Peter and Jude in the NIVAC, but I didn't include him in these verses.

[Salamander]

Can we leave that to a Rick Warren thread?Considering i didn't know nor was aware that there was a RW thread and he fits directly into the realm of which we speak, I can see that his mention is relevent to two things:

1. His books fall into the catagory of which the OP suggests as inline with the Book of Jude.

2. Since his name was mentioned in another post, I thought it best for the casual onlooker to know RW's adding to the apostacies relevent to the OP.

If I have somehow broken some hidden commandment, please inform me of that hidden commandment.:praying:

[Squire Robertsson]

I mean a discussion of Rick Warren is worthy of its own thread (s) rather than causing this thread to drift. If you want to start one, go ahead.

[Salamander]

OK, let's shift the discussion to a more positive thought, being we might be "shifting gears" here.

Jude 22 "And of some, having compassion making a difference"

Seems the more positive thought is to move beyond the apostacies and to earnestly contend for the faith is rather more that we have compassion on the apostates due to their ignorances than to rail upon them for that very ignorance.

RW may be just a person for some to have compassion.

I like to define passion as having a zeal but without knowledge, whereas compassion would be a zeal according to knowledge.

Thus signifying that having the compassion referenced in Jude 22 is for those who know the truth about salvation and having knowledge of the Saviour can in turn be compassionate instead of venting according to our differences.

I know some who are passionate about winning souls, but yet they lack the compassion on how to appraoch and then deal with that soul.

Apostates need to be won to Jesus, not argue with them.:godisgood:

[Mexdeaf]

I was of the understanding that an apostate was one who at one time claimed to be a Christian but later rejects it.

From Encarta-

a·pos·tate [ ə pós tàyt, (http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/Pronounce.aspx?search=apostate)ə póstət (http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/Pronounce.aspx?search=apostate) ] (plural a·pos·tates)
noun
Definition:
somebody who renounces belief: somebody who renounces a belief or allegiance

Two questions-

1. How does that make Rick Warren an apostate? (I am no RW fan BTW).

2. How Jude indicate that we should 'win apostates to Jesus'?

Thanks!

[Salamander]

I was of the understanding that an apostate was one who at one time claimed to be a Christian but later rejects it.

From Encarta-

a·pos·tate [ ə pós tàyt, (http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/Pronounce.aspx?search=apostate)ə póstət (http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/Pronounce.aspx?search=apostate) ] (plural a·pos·tates)
noun
Definition:
somebody who renounces belief: somebody who renounces a belief or allegiance

Two questions-

1. How does that make Rick Warren an apostate? (I am no RW fan BTW). Even the devils believe and tremble, so believing isn't salvation. For God chose the foolishness of preaching to save them which believe.

2. How Jude indicate that we should 'win apostates to Jesus'?Jude 18:How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
Jud 1:20 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Jud&chapter=1&verse=20&version=kjv#20)¶But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Jud 1:21 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Jud&chapter=1&verse=21&version=kjv#21)Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Jud 1:22 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Jud&chapter=1&verse=22&version=kjv#22)And of some have compassion, making a difference:
Jud 1:23 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Jud&chapter=1&verse=23&version=kjv#23)And others save with fear, pulling [them] out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

V. 19 They have NOT the Spirit, they are lost, even though they believed.

V. 20 We, who are saved, are the "Beloved". We can be built up through the promptings of the Spirit/ we have the Holy Ghost, they do not.

They are those who once being enlightened it is impossible to renew them to repentence for they would crucify Christ afresh and thereby count His death for nought the first time. They will never crucify Him again!

V. 21 We should never leave our first love/ Christ, for in so doing we lose our perspective and focus on the world and its sorrows failing of the grace of God and displacing our hope. Our Blessed Hope and His glorious appearing is the expectation of the saints and worth more than this life could ever afford!

Apostates have not this hope. In turn for the worse, they turned from excersizing faith unto salvation and made only a false profession at best and have attempted to rationalize the Gospel in another fashion trodding underfoot the Blood of Christ. RW does this, he is as Cain offering the work of his hands/ a bloodless offering.

V. 22 The compassionate will recognize the ignorance of these apostates and will exhibit the love of God shed abroad in their hearts and shall shut the mouths of the gainsayers by exposition of the Truth according to the Word of God.

V. 23 Rationalization of the word of God leaves one in the state of an intellectual dilemma: they once knew Him as God but now as the sodomites have done, are worshipping the creature more than the Creator by congratulating their advanced revelations beyond the Gospel. Omitting the Blood and attempting to surpass it by works. The same will always be a thief and a robber in the sight of God and thereby be under fire/ judgement.

Only the truth can and will expose their fallacies and then that would have them in the place to acquire that hope as well as we who are the saved and the called according to the purpose of God.

[webdog]

Even the devils believe and tremble, so believing isn't salvation. For God chose the foolishness of preaching to save them which believe.

So you are basically calling Rick Warren lost, correct?