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New "Seminary" Experience

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges & Seminaries' started by Rhetorician, May 1, 2009.

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  1. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    To all who have an ear to hear (or whomever might have an interest?):

    My family and I have just in the last three months joined a new church to us. We had been at a "mainline" SBC church for nearly 20 years. I had been a "staff member" as a contract church planter, SS Teacher with the same class for over a decade where I actually "pastored" the folk, deacon, et al.

    We have now moved our membership to a "Founders friendly" church that is much smaller. And for various reasons we left the large church for the smaller one:

    1. I have not had a "pastor" myself for all of these years b/c it was a so-called mega-church; now I do.

    2. The preaching was not exegetical and expository at the mega-church and now in the "new church" pastor preaches that way.

    3. I could not be involved in the total life of the mega-church but can at the new smaller church.

    I have said all that to say this: the new church has a serious pastoral internship. The pastor-teacher-elder has asked me to participate as co-leader in the internship process, mentoring, and teaching. And it will be/is a major work for these young ministers in training.

    My point is that in times gone by we have discussed the pros and cons of seminary (para-church) education vs. the "in-church" type models here. I wanted to let everyone know that I have not changed my mind. I am probably still an "education snob." But I think this church is doing "the best of both worlds."

    Thoughts?

    "That is all!":thumbs:
     
    #1 Rhetorician, May 1, 2009
  2. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    Rhet, you are filling a great need. I'm all for seminary and Bible college education, but one-the-job training is also needed. Your church is providing one way to do it.

    A former pastor of mine took under his wing several young ministerial students from a nearby Baptist college. After the Sunday morning service, then lunch, these young students would gather back at the church to sit under the tutelage of my pastor.

    I don't know everything he taught them, but I do remember that one afternoon he taught them the mechanics of baptizing a new convert. He got 'em all in the baptistry and had them practice on each other.

    That may be a small thing, but we've all seen baptisms go wrong.

    Good for you, and good for your new church.
     
    #2 Tom Butler, May 1, 2009
  3. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    Tom Response

    Tom,

    Thanks for the good word. I was afraid you would move the post to another "ministry post?" I am glad you have not. Thanks!!

    My pastor developed the syllabus. It is quite strenuous. When I first saw it I looked at it and then at him and said: "That is master's level work."

    They have to do several book reviews and present them, they have to undergo the teaching method that we use--the Socratic method rather than lecturing, he allows them to preach--requires them to preach, they get to sit in on the Elder's meetings, they can and are encouraged to visit with us when we do personal work or pastoral visitation, they have to do exegesis papers and practical hermeneutical applications, and on and on and on it goes.

    It is certainly no "gimme" like some of the churches, who just throw a young man in some ministry context and he must fend for himself. Everything done will be critiqued.

    I might add that my pastor has taught homiletics as a Fellow at the Olford Center for years and of course I have been the classroom teaching Speech for years also. This is the "real deal." In fact one of the interns from Summers gone by stated that this internship was as valuable as anything he had done at seminary.

    This is FYI! Thanks for the good word. I really do believe that is was the Lord's leading and timing for me to be involved at this time.

    "That is all!":thumbs:
     
    #3 Rhetorician, May 1, 2009
  4. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member
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    Sounds great! I think one we have several missing links in our seminary education across the board. One of the them is taking the young men who are graduating and heading out to do ministry and putting them in a context where its okay to fail. Where they have a safety net and a strong pastoral mentor to pull alongside of them and really show them the ropes. I had the blessing of this experience when I graduated from my MDiv work and it changed everything! (For the good)

    Also we need a standardize, extensive exit examination for all graduates entering the pastoral (not just senior) roles. Every other serious professional degree has some kind of exam to test comptency and knowledge. I think we need something to check our leaders, if for no other reason than we want to ensure quality in the leaders heading out to our precious churches. Sort of like a Bar exam or medical board for ministers. I think we need it.

    Good thread!:thumbs:
     
    #4 preachinjesus, May 1, 2009
  5. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    Preaching Jesus Reponse

    PJ,

    Thanks for the good word.

    There are some issues I am sure you have considered with the "exam" process.

    1. The autonomy of the local church in Baptist life and identity.

    2. The likewise autonomy of the educational institution whether it be a Bible College or seminary.

    3. Do we allow those who have grad degrees from another denom's seminary to use their "exam" as an entrance into one of our churches, and on an on the discussion would go.

    And these are only a few issues with which we would have deal. And then there are still churches our there who do not even want or care if a man has an education or not. Others who see the title "DR." think that one doctorate is just as good as another.

    I am sorry, here I go being an "education snob" again!:thumbs:

    Please forgive.

    "That is all!"
     
    #5 Rhetorician, May 1, 2009
  6. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    Was I the "Tom" you feared would move this to a ministry forum? :smilewinkgrin:

    At any rate, it sounds good to me. I also love the fact you're at a Founders Friendly church :smilewinkgrin:
     
    #6 TomVols, May 8, 2009
  7. paidagogos

    paidagogos Active Member

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    Best of both worlds

    Rhett,
    My idea of the ideal "seminary" is a local church training its own ministers with a large DE support structure from outside. With the current technology, we can offer anything through DE at the local church level with interaction and personal training through the local ministry. I am a big Moodle fan with visions of unlimited opportunity for a rigorous education drawn from worldwide resources. Presently, I am working on developing my ideas into reality with some Bible colleges in both the USA and on the mission field. I am developing diversified, blended model of DE. We have not even begun to explore the limits of DE. With this model, we can solve the problems of inbreeding and lack of church input.
     
    #7 paidagogos, May 13, 2009
  8. Jkdbuck76

    Jkdbuck76 Well-Known Member
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    Mentoring is a lost art!
     
    #8 Jkdbuck76, May 28, 2009
  9. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    In our church, we had 5 men ordained through the church after studying for 2 (or was it more - I can't remember) years together. They worked through Systematic Theology using many different texts and they all met together (along with the ordained ministers at our church and a few outside pastors at times) every 3 weeks. Each man present needed to be prepared to teach on the particular subject they were covering and a name would be drawn out of a hat to choose who would teach. It could have been one of the ordained pastors or one of the pastoral interns. It was a very intense time of teaching and learning and at the end, they were all confirmed to be equipped for the ministry since, along with this program, each was working in the church in their ministries and were watched by our own staff as well as outside pastors.

    Now there are 2 new pastoral interns and a few of the other men of the church (some deacons, some in other ministries) who are doing a hermenutics class. I was helping DH with this next class and it was really interesting. I find this a GREAT way to learn for the ministry - some real-life teaching along with serious study on their own. I'm actually going to make a post of this session's lesson to see what you all would do for it. :)

    I'm so glad you found a church where you can minister and you see God working. That's awesome.
     
    #9 annsni, May 28, 2009
  10. mjohnson7

    mjohnson7 Member

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    Rhet,
    What you described sounds incredible to me. I am a young minister (SBC & Founders friendly) that was educated at a Baptist university (BS in Religion) and then went straight into full-time ministry. I am currently on "sabbatical" and employed in a secular job. I am hoping to use this time to subsidize more education (my secular job pays more than twice as much as my full-time pastoral salary) and seek out a mentor. In retrospect, I don't think I was adequately prepared for pastoral ministry. We need scholar/preacher/pastors today....those things need not be exclusive. Unfortunately, there are fewer and fewer men qualified to mentor young men.

    There are no Reformed Baptist churches near me.....some Reformed Baptist pastors....closet Calvinists, but no reformed churches. As a result, my wife and I drive two and a half hours to Paducah, KY where we attend an ARPC (conservative old-school Southern Presbyterian) church.

    I think Paid is on the right track....combining DE with local church pastoral training and internship....similar to what Rhet is describing would be ideal.

    Just my two cents.....
     
    #10 mjohnson7, Jun 1, 2009
  11. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant Well-Known Member

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    Congratulations on finding what your heart was searching for. Always miraculous when God to supply our need for both ministering and being ministered to.
     
    #11 Tom Bryant, Jun 1, 2009
  12. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    Bro. Johnson,

    I have good news for you. If you have not heard of the Heritage Baptist Church in Owensboro, you need to "beat feet" over there in a hurry. It is a Reformed Baptist Church that also has an "in house" seminary or ministerial academy. I do not know how far you are from Owensboro, but it would be worth while to check it out. Here is the hyperlink. Contact me by PM if you wish, I would love to talk to you about it.:thumbsup:

    http://www.mctsowensboro.org/

    "That is all!"
     
    #12 Rhetorician, Jun 1, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 1, 2009
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