Learning from David and Michal

David's dancing apparently caused bitterness in Michal, since she thought he embarrassed himself before others. I am sure having many wives to compete with didn't help either.

 

If you're going to mention competing with other wives, then you've got to mention that during this same time he is apparently caught up in an apparent gay relationship with Jonathan, and specifically said that his love was better than a woman's.

Also in regards to his dancing, he wasn't just dancing. Keep in mind that he was nearly naked, and danced like that in front of everybody. She didn't criticize the dancing, she criticized him for uncovering himself in front of everybody including the maids and being vain about it. His response was but "it was before the Lord".

 

What garbage! Nowhere does it say that David was involved in a gay relationship! Women were property in those days, and the love from Jonathan as Saul's son was a special brotherly bond (Saul even refers to David as his son)...a unique closeness that one would give their lives for the other. Nowhere in the OT would a man give their life for a woman, as they held an inferior place in society.

He also wasn't nearly naked...Michal accused him of this...big difference, most likely falsely out of bitterness and jealousy. The judgment of God closing her womb is evidence of this.

 

There is nothing in Scripture to indicate that David was involved in a homosexual relationship.

 

I believe you are reading way too much into David's relationship with Jonathan. You need to remember that David's society was very patriarchal. Many men, like David, had more than one wife. Therefore, I don't believe they looked at marriage in the way that we do today. David had a close love and friendship with Jonathan, but no where in Scripture does it say anything about an inappropriate relationship. To imply that David had a sexual relationship with another man is going beyond anything Scripture reveals.

 

I think we need to be careful and not read too much into scripture, and especially not read it in terms of modern marriages and relationships.

The point of the Bible saying Michal despised David when he danced before the Lord is that she was embarrassed - rather than sharing the joy David had in the return of the ark, she had a personal, bitter reaction.

Remember, David was beloved by God and was the king who foreshadowed the Messiah and was the ancestor of the Messiah. To despise one beloved or chosen by the Lord is often spoken of in the Bible in very negative terms.

The point of this episode is the joy in the return of the ark - David rejoiced but Michal didn't - she chose embarrassment over joy in the Lord. Beyond that, it's all speculation.

 

This view is part of the propaganda of the homosexual community about David. They are Bible revisionists. They do not interpret the Bible correctly at all but are attempting to reinterpret it so that their lifestyle is validated.

 

It speaks of the deep friendship that David had with Johnathan. There are some things that men can share together that cannot be shared with a woman and it has nothing to do with sex.

 

1 Samuel 18:1 - Their souls were knit together.

1 Samuel 18:3 - they loved each other so much they made a covenant together.

1 Samuel 18:4 - David pretty much stripped naked and gave all his clothes he was wearing to Jonathan, including his robe, garments, and girdle.

1 Samuel 19:2 - Jonathan "delighted much in David".

1 Samuel 20:30 - Saul apparently gets mad at their relationship -
"Then Saul's anger was kindled against Jonathan, and he said unto him, Thou son of the perverse rebellious woman, do not I know that thou hast chosen the son of Jesse to thine own confusion, and unto the confusion of thy mother's nakedness? "

1 Samuel 20:41 - They kissed each other.

2 Samuel 1:26 - "very pleasant hast thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women"




... sounds pretty gay to me. :thumbs:

 

2 Samuel 6:14 says that he had on an ephod, and never mentions anything else. An ephod is pretty much just an ornamental breastplate held in place by shoulder straps. That's all it is. Considering this plus the fact that Michael said he was exposing himself, you don't really have any grounds to claim that he wasn't nearly naked, plus David never denies this allegation. Michael saw him with her own eyes... she wasn't making stuff up or hearing rumors, she saw him, and as soon as she did, this is when she despised him. It has nothing to do with jealousy, he wasn't with another woman or anything, she just saw him dancing, and if he was simply dancing for the Lord and nothing else, she really had nothing to be jealous of in terms of other wives or whatever. Apparently he was going well beyond that though because as soon as she saw him do whatever he was doing, she dispised him.

 

Then you have a corrupt and perverted mind. There is nothing gay about it. This was a man after God's own heart.

 

David had tons of wives on his own, got all of Saul's wives, had several more concubines, and still committed adultery outside of these relationships. In Psalms 38:7, apparently he even has an STD. His perversion was legendary. Yet you say I'm the pervert? If we were talking about somebody like Paul I'd agree with you, but we're talking about David here.

Since I'm typing though, I should ask... I'm sure you have some real close buddies, so tell me... you ever kissed them? You ever told them their love was better than any woman's? Ever strip naked and give them your clothes? Ever make a covenant with them because of your love? Ever admit that you delight in them? Ever consider your souls to be knit together?

 

Corndoggy, you have been duped by the homosexual agenda. This is the propaganda that they use to twist and pervert the scripture to promote their lifestyle as being legitimate.

 

I don't see how this is proof of it being legit, only that it happened. There's plenty of bad stuff in the old testament that was described in detail but that don't make it legit, good, acceptable, or anything else. With this argument you should also say that his adultery with Bathsheba was legit and acceptable.

 

So let me get this straight: Because David sinned that somehow makes a statement about you?

You get this straight: You have a perverted and corrupted mind if you think that David was a homosexual based on those passages.

It's not our culture. I have embraced them, yes. The NT tells us to greet the brothers with a kiss of love or a holy kiss. So in the ancient culture (if you took time to understand it), and in some cultures today in the middle east and Europe, kisses are common ways of greeting.

The point there is that there is a relationship between men that women can't give. It's shared manhood, just like there is between women.

That was another ANE custom that we don't practice today.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

There's not many friends I have like that, but there are maybe one or two.

Sounds to me like you have no grasp on true friendship or biblical relationships, and no grasp on the Bible in the culture.

 

Or maybe I'm just a pervert because I don't "delight" in my male friends and strip naked for them after we make a covenant that knits our souls together then tell them their love is better than any woman's. Hopefully I never will. How awful of me. I would in fact be curious to see how many guys here would though.

It is curious though, the only two situations that I'm aware of that the Bible says that two become one is with marriage, and sex with a harlot. With that in mind, how can you read "their souls were knit together" and not think that it's a relationship like this?

If this were common with biblical relationships, show me any other place in the Bible where these things were done, especially with mentioning "their souls were knit together". I bet you can't. Yes I understand the kissing part as a way of greeting or saying goodbye, but not the rest. Seriously, just show me another place that shows this that would prove that this was common. You act like it's real common in biblical relationships, but I bet you can't show me any other place where two men's souls were knit together. Mentioning it one time doesn't make it normal and common.

 

Not nearly enough. You are a pervert because you take a straightforward description of mature male friendship and turn it into homosexuality.

Furthermore, as was already pointed out, no one stripped naked. You need to study the Bible.

Because the "two becoming one flesh" is not the same as their souls being knit together.

Neither does it make it homosexual. How is homosexual described as a man after God's own heart?

Why does it have to be mentioned more than once? Why does it have to be common? Only a perverted mind could come up with what you came up with.