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There is little agreement about when life begins

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Crabtownboy, Jun 11, 2009.

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  1. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    As can be seen by the article below there are many opinions on this issue:

    http://www.kansascity.com/255/story/1240804.html
     
    #1 Crabtownboy, Jun 11, 2009
  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Libbies love to minimize their sinful positions. Calling abortion anything other than the slaughter of unborn children would be placating murderers.There is no discussion needed.It is what it is.

    Woe to them that calls evil good,and good evil.
     
    #2 Revmitchell, Jun 11, 2009
  3. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant Well-Known Member

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    I guess it's been settled. The "faith" writer in Kansas City has told us that because the Dalai Lama and the Pope and, possibly, W.A. Criswell, disagree, that we have to just let every view is just as good as every other view. :BangHead: I was waiting for someone of his stature to tell us what to think.
     
    #3 Tom Bryant, Jun 11, 2009
  4. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    Ah, yes. So since we don't have total unanimity among all 300 million Americans, let's just kill what we don't want to keep.

    What a lovely plan. :rolleyes:

    I always love seeing the logic..."well, there are many opinions...so we just can't know."

    Thank God I know there is a standard of objective truth.

    CTB...this is black or white: Do you believe the Bible, or not? If you do, then you cannot support abortion. If you don't, then I guess you can do whatever you want.

    Do you believe God's word? Do you believe Psalm 139? Or do you not?

    There is no in-between.
     
    #4 rbell, Jun 11, 2009
  5. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    W.A. Criswell later became a serious abortion opponent. Wonder why the article never mentioned that.
     
    #5 Revmitchell, Jun 11, 2009
  6. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    Yes, there is disagreement. But disagreement, or even total agreement for that matter, cannot invalidate the absolute truth.

    This passage is not about an assualt. It's about an accidental harming of a pregnant woman.

    It's about the legal recourse to follow when she either miscarries or has a pre-mature birth because of the accidental harm caused by two men who are fighting each other. The text is not clear as to whether this is talking about a miscarriage or a pre-mature birth.

    Exodus 21:22-23 is not about abortion, the timeline of personhood, purposeful killing of the unborn, nor the sanctity of life. And it is not saying that an unborn baby is worth "less" than his mother.

    Apparently Criswell hasn't read the following verses where God, Himself, believes the unborn to be separate individuals from their mothers.

    "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you. Before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations." Jeremiah 1:5

    "The Lord hath called me from the womb: from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name." Isaiah 49:1

    "As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy." Luke 1:44

    This is my personal opinion as to when life begins. Implantation. Until the every-so-tiny blastocyst implants itself onto the wall of the uterus, it will not grow nor development. The mother's body will not take care of it, but will expel it as a foreign entity.

    But my personal opinion counts for nothing. My opinion is about as worthless as Criswell's, Aristotle's, Laura Bush's, Pat Robertson's, or President Obama's.

    The truth is that by the the time the mother knows that she is pregnant, all of this has passed. The fetus has a heartbeat, measureable brain waves, can feel pain, vital organs are growing, and has fingerprints.

    "If the womb had windows, there would be no abortions." - unknown

    All of our opinions put together, whether in agreement or disagreement, wouldn't even make a good pile of horse manure.

    And whether we agree or disagree has absolutely nothing to do with the absolute truth.

    "In the tiny, almost invisible thirty two cell blastocyst--in that one gram or so of tissue--there is a physical potential and moral destiny unparalleled in our universe. Next to it, a gram of plutonium is a triviality: plutonium cannot compose a symphony, cannot cure cancer, cannot plan our course to the stars". -Bernard Nathanson, M.D. and former abortionist-

    "Did not he who made me in the womb make them? Did not the same one form us within our mothers?" Job 31:15

    "For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made." Psalm 139:13-14
     
    #6 Scarlett O., Jun 11, 2009
  7. Me4Him

    Me4Him New Member

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    Mr 10:9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

    Ge 29:31 And when the LORD saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb: but Rachel was barren.

    Job 31:15 Did not he that made me in the womb make him? and did not one fashion us in the womb?

    Isa 66:9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.

    Isa 49:15 Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee.

    Lu 2:23 (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord.
     
    #7 Me4Him, Jun 11, 2009
  8. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Dr. Criswell passed away a few years back and the article fails to mention his hcange in position on abortion. He was a staunch abortion opponent.
     
    #8 Revmitchell, Jun 11, 2009
  9. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    Thank you for that clarification. :flower:
     
    #9 Scarlett O., Jun 11, 2009
  10. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    the only opinion I care about is God's, not man's.
     
    #10 donnA, Jun 11, 2009
  11. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    I feel babies really early on in pregnancy but 40 days after conception is just 8 weeks along - WAY too soon to feel a baby. I felt babies around 13 weeks and most first time mothers don't feel their babies until after 20 weeks. The majority of moms feel baby's first movements around 15-18 weeks once they've already had a child. I have NO idea how he got 40 days after conception.
     
    #11 annsni, Jun 11, 2009
  12. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    I believe this to be incorrect. If the child is born and everything is OK there is just a fine. If the baby or the mother dies, then the death penalty is the rule.
     
    #12 annsni, Jun 11, 2009
  13. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    What bible do you read ? Maybe you CAN'T read. This is a false statement. You should repair this. This verse describes a fight between two men, not an assault on a woman. And the fine is if the child is born alive, prematurely. This kind of post makes me wonder if you read your bible at all.
     
    #13 Bro. Curtis, Jun 11, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 11, 2009
  14. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    Sorry, I see Scarlett O already addressed this correctly.

    CTB, you have posted up a theory that should make all true Christians shudder.

    Shame on you.
     
    #14 Bro. Curtis, Jun 11, 2009
  15. Freedom

    Freedom New Member

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    We all have to determine what we believe based on our understanding of the Bible and our inspiration from the Holy Spirit. I believe that life begins at conception. This isn't a "libby"/conserv thing if you're talking about politics.

    BTW. Grouping a large number of people together and assuming they all believe the same thing or will act in the same way is not Biblical. It's from the devil.
     
    #15 Freedom, Jun 11, 2009
  16. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    If there is disagreement on when life begins, then all (even non-Christians) should err on the side of life.

    I used to believe, as a New Ager with Eastern views, that the soul didn't enter the baby until shortly before birth or at birth. This is a popular view in the New Age and the occult and is one reason many in those areas are okay with abortion.

    As for the Dalai Lama - don't get me started! For one thing, he believes in rebirth, and he also believes that everyone will eventually become a Buddhist in some future life if they are not one now. Buddhism is the only way to liberation and truth, according to him. But no one says the DL is narrow-minded because his statements about letting everyone stay in their own religion make it sound like he's okay with other beliefs. He only says this because he thinks we will all be buddhists one day.
     
    #16 Marcia, Jun 11, 2009
  17. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    Here we have a thread on one of the few issues where there is a definite line drawn in the sand. There are no shades of gray. We have enough shades of gray in drinking, end times, Calvinism, etc, etc. How could anyone in their right mind interpret Jeremiah 1:5 or Isaiah 44:2 any different? What on earth are they teaching in college these days?

    What is today, "Give Attention to the Theologically Challenged" day?
     
    #17 saturneptune, Jun 11, 2009
  18. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    anyone who doesn't believe that life begins at conception has horrifically flawed theology.
     
    #18 rbell, Jun 11, 2009
  19. RevGKG

    RevGKG Member

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    AMEN!!! Every concieved child life - a precious gift from God.
     
    #19 RevGKG, Jun 11, 2009
  20. Jedi Knight

    Jedi Knight Well-Known Member
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    So if a man"boyfriend,husband" hurts the woman and the baby dies before it's born it's murder. If the woman DECIDES to have an abortion it's some how different? We live in an upside down way of thinking here.
     
    #20 Jedi Knight, Jun 11, 2009
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