1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

luke 18:16

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Harold Garvey, Dec 19, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Top Posters
Page 1 of 4
  1. Harold Garvey

    Harold Garvey New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    Who does the Kingdom of God belong to? Seems the NIV says it belongs to children, but isn't it God's? Of course the KJV TELLS us it is made up, or "such is", of children
     
    #1 Harold Garvey, Dec 19, 2009
  2. sag38

    sag38 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,395
    Likes Received:
    2
    Harold it means the same thing. You are trying to make the NIV say something that isn't there in order to make an attack. Most folks of any reasonable intelligence would have no problem with the proper interpretation of this verse.
     
    #2 sag38, Dec 19, 2009
  3. Harold Garvey

    Harold Garvey New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    Seems the term "belongs" means something different Than what some admit. The KJV is attacked by those who can't comprehend the word "suffer" by saying it gives the indication of pain.
     
    #3 Harold Garvey, Dec 19, 2009
  4. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2007
    Messages:
    1,695
    Likes Received:
    82
    Faith:
    Baptist

    Cannot the same thing be said about the supposed "hard" verses in the KJV?
     
    #4 Baptist4life, Dec 19, 2009
  5. Harold Garvey

    Harold Garvey New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    The NIV says the kingdom BELONGS to the children. The KJV states the kingdom is "made up of" where it says "such is", but some people think this is unreasonable.
     
    #5 Harold Garvey, Dec 19, 2009
  6. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    30,285
    Likes Received:
    507
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Trolling again?

    It is the same thing. One is older style wording; one is modern

    "Of such" is translated as a genitive of possession and we'd say "belongs to" today (showing they possess it). Is does not mean "is comprised of" or "made up of" - totally different wording had God inspired that. God used the correct word.

    Of couse, modern translations DO say "belongs to". You should read one to help you understand archaic wording of the AV . . .
     
    #6 Dr. Bob, Dec 19, 2009
  7. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    4
    No it doesn't.

    NIV - Luk 18:16 -
    But Jesus called the children to him and said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.


    I do not like the NIV, but giving false information about it is just wrong. Things like this actually turn people away from the KJV because this is obviously an untruth and ruins your credibility.
     
    #7 Amy.G, Dec 19, 2009
  8. AntennaFarmer

    AntennaFarmer Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    610
    Likes Received:
    0

    Now who is applying a double standard? Harold didn't attack the NIV. He only noted a difference. Rather than accusing Harold of "attacking", "trolling" or "giving false information" you can choose to have a reasonable discussion.

    I disagree. There does seem to be a difference between the versions.
     
    #8 AntennaFarmer, Dec 19, 2009
  9. sag38

    sag38 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,395
    Likes Received:
    2
    Forgive me but I make my accusation based on a well established and illustrious reputation. And yes, there is a difference but they mean the same thing. Dr. Bob pointed it out well.
     
    #9 sag38, Dec 19, 2009
  10. AntennaFarmer

    AntennaFarmer Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    610
    Likes Received:
    0

    Are you saying that "of such" in the KJV = "belongs to" of the NIV?
     
    #10 AntennaFarmer, Dec 19, 2009
  11. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    14,362
    Likes Received:
    668
    Faith:
    Baptist
    All the more reason for English readers not to be limited to just one 400-yr-old version.
     
    #11 robycop3, Dec 19, 2009
  12. Harold Garvey

    Harold Garvey New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ok, my camaro is of such of Harold's but I know who it belongs to. Amazing how the scholars have to explain something so relatively simple and call it archaic. The kingdom belongs to God and is made up of believers. If you say I am wrong then lay aside the bent sword of babble and show me
     
    #12 Harold Garvey, Dec 19, 2009
  13. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    9,492
    Likes Received:
    1,239
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Harold belongs to the human race.
    Do you deny eather of these?
    …for of such is humanity.
    …for humanity belongs to such as these.

    Harold belongs to the Baptist Board.
    Do you deny eather of these?
    ...for of such is the Baptist Board.
    …for the Baptist Board belongs to such as these.

    Rob
     
    #13 Deacon, Dec 20, 2009
  14. Harold Garvey

    Harold Garvey New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    Humanity doesn't "belong" to anyone, I am only a part of it. BB belongs to those who created it and owns the rights to the website, I am just another member and belong to it within those parameters. In no way does it belong to me or does it belong collectively, each having equal authority, to its members. The kingdom of God, I am a member and God is its owner, it all belongs to him and he allows us to have a part within it, not over it. The NIV is giving the impression of coequal ownership.
     
    #14 Harold Garvey, Dec 20, 2009
  15. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    9,492
    Likes Received:
    1,239
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I'm impressed Harold, you discovered exactly what the two different comparisons were about.

    One can own the Baptist Board but one cannot own humanity.

    In the same way, no one can own the kingdom of God.

    The NIV (and many others) uses English as you have just expressed it.

    Yes it can be misunderstood but only if you want to misunderstand it.

    Rob
     
    #15 Deacon, Dec 20, 2009
  16. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2007
    Messages:
    1,695
    Likes Received:
    82
    Faith:
    Baptist
    :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


    That's funny.
     
    #16 Baptist4life, Dec 20, 2009
  17. David Michael Harris

    David Michael Harris Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,362
    Likes Received:
    1
    Jesus is stating the attitude and demeanor of those who will dwell there as against the worlds ungodly and very mistaken attitude. I would say.

    Basic Christian teaching.

    Becoming a Christian is a massive wake up call.
     
    #17 David Michael Harris, Dec 20, 2009
  18. Thermodynamics

    Thermodynamics Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2009
    Messages:
    357
    Likes Received:
    1
    Well stated Amy!
     
    #18 Thermodynamics, Dec 20, 2009
  19. Harold Garvey

    Harold Garvey New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'LL stick with the Bible that doesn't allow anyone to misunderstand. THE KJV tells us the kingdom is made up of children, the NIV says it belongs to children
     
    #19 Harold Garvey, Dec 20, 2009
  20. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    11,851
    Likes Received:
    1,084
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Just a few observations:

    1. This rendering is certainly not new. Both John Gill and John Wesley agreed with it.

    2. The first translation that I can readily find (though my research certainly is not exhaustive) with the modern rendering is the American Bible Union revision of the KJV in 1865. (That's the "Baptist" version, which substituted immersed for baptized.)

    3. Your objection that "The NIV is giving the impression of coequal ownership" seems weak. I don't not suppose you are willing to throw out "Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven" and "Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven" on the same grounds or to excise passages such as "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."
     
    #20 rsr, Dec 20, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 20, 2009
Page 1 of 4
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...