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Another Poll for everyone on the Baptist Board to see what side of the fence youre on

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Skandelon, Dec 29, 2009.

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  1. NUMBER 1

    26 vote(s)
    72.2%
  2. NUMBER 2

    10 vote(s)
    27.8%
  1. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    Please tell us which of these statement best represents what you believe about salvation:

    1. God has chosen to provide the means and ability for all sinful men to willingly turn from their sin and be saved.

    2. God has chosen to save a select number of people who he irresistibly draws to Himself while passing by all others who were born without the ability to willingly repent from their sin and be saved, and who will spend eternity burning in a lake of unquenchable fire; all to the praise of God's glorious grace and justice.
     
    #1 Skandelon, Dec 29, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2009
  2. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Aren't you going to vote in your own poll?
     
  3. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Some people like to wait to vote because if they are the first to vote, everyone knows what they voted. Some wait for others to vote first out of politeness.
     
  4. jcjordan

    jcjordan New Member

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    how about neither? I'm very close to #2, but it's not quite worded correctly.
     
  5. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    People who do polls should always, always, always offer the option of "neither" or "other" or "not sure." I always do this on my polls. This way, everyone can see the results.
     
  6. jcjordan

    jcjordan New Member

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    to be clear, it implies that one group has able to respond while the other group is unable. I would agree if it was clear that both were unable.
     
  7. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    I assume you mean the two groups represented in Number 2? Those being irresistibly drawn are enabled by the effectual/irresistible drawing, right? Only the rest, the non-elect, remain unable to willingly believe, right? How is that not accurate?
     
  8. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    As someone who claims to have been a Calvinist for 10 years, we would have expected you to know that salvation is to the glory of GOd's grace, while the eternal punishment of the wicked to the glory of his justice.
     
  9. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    grace for the first part and justice for the latter...I edited it just for you :smilewinkgrin:
     
  10. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    How about 3.
    God, in his mercy and grace, has chosen out of the whole number of lost humanity, all of whom are deserving of eternal punishment, to save some, and to encompass both the means and the ends within his purpose to save, to his glory.
     
  11. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    Or 4

    By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise of his glorious grace; others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of his glorious justice.
     
  12. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    Fine, but how is number 2 not an accurate description of what you believe? (though I admit, its purposefully worded to be hard to swallow)
     
  13. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    Just a sugar coated way of saying the same thing. You still haven't shown what it is about number 2 that is inaccurate.
     
  14. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Couldn't vote. There's no "both" option in the poll.
     
  15. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    I know I'm going to regret asking but how does number 1 also represent you? Before you respond, keep in mind that it says, "willingly turn" so the whole, men are "able but not willing" argument doesn't work.
     
  16. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    You're presuming that choice 2 negates choice 1, and/or vice versa. The doctrine of election doesn't negate a person's need to willingly believe and accept.
     
  17. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    No one has said that Calvinism's view of election negates a person's need to willingly believe, it only indicates that no one can willingly believe unless they are irresistibly drawn (in the Calvinistic system).
     
  18. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the Bible teaches against man's ability. This is why some more recent men of God have referred to the doctrine of total depravity as total inability.

    That verse speaks to ability. No man CAN. I don't one flippy do-da whether someone says I am trying to prove calvinism from this Scripture or not. What this text says is that NO MAN CAN COME TO JESUS....except the Father draw that person.

    End of story.
     
  19. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    Well stated! :thumbs: I agree.
     
  20. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    If you agree with that, then I am at a loss as to what your fighting against. Glad we can agree.
     
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