Is our freedom more important that our weaker brother

It's not a matter of degrees. Our freedom is important. But our freedom should not be used as a stumbling block for the weak. One is not "more important" than the other. It's simply an admonition to use one's freedom responsibly.

We tend to misuse the "stumbling block" reference. For example, we tend to think that we shouldn't do something if it might cause someone to stumble. That's not what the verse is saying. It's saying we should not participate in an action that directly causes a person to stumble. A common example is consuming wine. If my neighbor has a problem with drunkenness, of which I'm aware, and I take him out and buy him a beer, I'm causing him to stumble. Of, OTOH, I take my wife out to a nice dinner, and we have a glass of wine with our food, and during that dinner, my neighbor passes by and sees us having a glass of wine with dinner, I'm not causing him to stumble.

 

For a great many, yes.

The weaker brother is of no consquence as long as they can enjoy their personal indulgence. What is interesting is that Pauls example is often left -unpreached/taught or simply ignored by many if not most today. He states that if it cause them to stumble he will NEVER partake of it. Why? For their sakes.

Now who is thier? Those overseas, no. It refers to those directly in his sphere of influence.

I also agree with John that it doesn't state 'might' but it is something we already know these people view as sinful.

 

The faith which thou hast, have thou to thyself before God..... Ro 14:22

What does that statement mean to you all?

I take it to mean 'don't flaunt your exercise of liberty' before others.

If your Christian brother, who believes any indulgence of alcohol to be wrong, comes to dinner, then don't drink your usual glass of red wine in their presence. Is that hypocritical?

(heheh.....Happy is he that judgeth not himself in that which he approveth)

Edited by me to rephrase:

'If someone you know who believes any indulgence of alcohol to be wrong comes to dinner, then don't drink your usual glass of red wine in their presence. Is that hypocritical?

 

No it is not. We must love. Is not the perfect example in Christ. This is a root cause maybe of why today's church is as it is.

We are all so very selfish.

 

True, but just because someone, somewhere, views something we might do as sinful, that doesn't oblige us to categorically refrain from that action. The question that this verse addresses is whether our action will directly cause a reasonable person to stumble. In my example, where a Christian married couple is out at a nice restaurant, and have a glass of wine with their dinner, this might cause someone somewhere to stumble, but it won't directly cause a reasonable person to stumble. The action is therefore not only permissible, it is not in need of discouragement.

 

My question is this. How far do we go in an effort not to "offend a weaker brother?" How many here love their coffee? Would you give it up if a weaker brother or sister sincerely believed it to be sinful? I had a cousin like that. I remember back in the 60's that she believed TV, comic books and coffee to be sinful. Her children couldn't watch TV or read comic books, and that was in the 60's when both TV and comic were clean.

Unfortunately, they no longer are clean. The filth (especially the language) on TV is atrocious. I can't have coffee because of my extreme reaction to caffeine, but is it sinful to drink it? I quit reading comic books over 40 years ago when the price went up to 15 cents. I didn't think they were worth it. Should we change our whole life because of a weak brother or sister in Christ who sees sin in anything that is enjoyable when God says nothing about it?

I knew a young man who believed that any game that included any kind of cards was sinful. Therefore all games involving any kind of cards should not be played by Christians. Some people see sin in just about everything; if it's fun it's sin; if it's enjoyable it's sin; if it feels good it's sin.

Rather than condoning and joining their weakness in faith, maybe we need to seek to educate them on our liberty in Christ--not liberty to be able to sin and not feel guilty, but to be free to enjoy the pleasures of life that are not sinful and to know the difference. Just my opinion. You're welcome to tell me how wrong I am, everyone else does. :BangHead:

 

That's exactly the question. I believe the verse implies that we should take a reasonable step to doing so. But the measures often cited (i.e., drinking is always wrong, because it might cause someone somewhere to stumble) are way beyond reason.

 

prehaps our churches should try properly teaching these people, and this might not be such an issue.

depends on whose view we value more, men or God.
some christians think computers are sinful, somethink cars, and buttons, and zippers are sinful.
but I don't see anyone here volunteering to not cause them to stumble.

 

How can coffee be sinful? It sounds Mormon.

I can understand alcohol, but coffee? Coffee is actually good for you - up to 6 cups a day.

Would I give this up? If a Christian was visiting me and thought this, then I would not drink coffee while he/she was visiting me even though I don't get the rationale here. But that is not the same as giving it up totally.

 

some are saying if theres a christian somewhere who beleives something like coffee is sinful, then christians should not use coffee. not just when they aren't there at your house. what if they were to find out you drink coffee, or see it in your house. nope, if someone thinks it sinful, you can not drink coffee according to what we're being told.

 

In that case we would have to give up nearly everything, because some brother or sister in Christ would believe it to be sinful. Some people go to extremes in their effort to "Be ye holy, for I am holy." 1 Peter 1:16. The Bible says to refrain from "all appearance of evil", and some take that to mean pretty much everything for fear of sinning. Their idea is "It's better to be safe than sorry."

On the "sinful TV" I hear the phrase, "It's better to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission." To some degree that is true since the person you ask might consider it to be sin even if it's not. I get my beliefs on what is sin or not from the Holy Spirit and not from man.

 

Either way, just because someone, somewhere, views something we might do as sinful, that doesn't oblige us to categorically refrain from that action.

 

Yes, I used to wonder if it was OK to watch football. I don't think football is evil, but a majority of the commercials are for beer. So, am I endorsing beer by watching?

A person has to be careful that this doesn't become an obsession. You can get to the point where you seperate yourself from the whole world because you see everything as sinful.

 

I concur, winman. I have two beers in the fridge. Oh, the heathen I must be.

 

It all depends on the social context in which freedoms are to be exercised or not exercises. No context would ever warrent flaunting one's freedom to the offense of a brother, and there may be places and times in the ministry where total abstinance from certain liberties may benecessary, and in other cases, a more or less limited exercise will do.

In any case, our intent and objective must be to give no offense, and to dwell peacefully with all men, as much as lies in us.