John 6:37-39

Jn6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

QUESTIONS:

1. Will any of those given to the Son by the Father fail to come to Him?

2. Will the Son lose any of those the Father gave him?

3. Is Christ providing the expression of God's will in verses 38-39 as additional confirmation of what Christ states to be matter of fact conclusions in verse 37?

4. Should any interpretation of any passage in the Old or New Testament be considered correct that would openly contradict this explicit conclusion by Christ in John 6:37 and the explicit expression of God's will in verses 38-39?

 

Some on this forum have interpreted passages in the book of Hebrews and the parable of the soils in Matthew 13 to support the doctrine of apostasy of true believers. My point is that such an interpetation makes Christ a liar.

They would not budge from their interpretation of apostasy in these scriptures but persisted in saying that our interpretation, which was consistent with these words of Christ, was a wrong interpretation. Therefore, I am simply confronting them with the predicament their interpretation of Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 6:4-6 and Matthew 13 puts them in with these words from Christ.

They have one of three options. They can continue to hold to intpretations of these passages that openly contradicts these words from Christ. They can recant their interpretations of these passages. They can reject the inspiration of the Scriptures and claim that the writer of Hebrews teaches contrary to Christ.

 

Some believe that John 6:38-39 is simply God's revealed will or desire but is conditional upon man's will and may be overthrown by any man just as the ten commandments are his revealed will but are overthrown every day by men.

The point that I was trying to awkwardly make, was that verses 38-39 follow a statement of unconditioned absolute fact (v. 37) and therefore should be understood by Christ as expression of the Soveriegn will of God rather than merely the expressed revealed will or desire of God.

In other words, in verse 37 Jesus says this is the way it is and in verses 38-39 Jesus says the reason this is the way it is, is because it is God's absolute unchangable sovereign will in this matter and I have come to perform that Will.

Sorry for the clumsy wording.

 

The criteria of selection/election has been debated. They flee to one verse where the term "foreknowledge" is found and interpret it to mean that God chose us because He foreknew we would choose Him. Therefore since He forenew our choice He rubber stamped it by making those foreknown believes His choice.

However, that is not the meaning of "foreknowledge" when used in context of the redemptive purposes of God. Foreknowledge is based upon God's purpose or blueprint (Rom. 8:28 "according to His purpose"; Eph. 1:11 "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:").

This interpretation of "foreknowledge" also directly contradicts other passages that define the design of election. Ephesians 1:4 defines election to be the cause of future acts of holiness rather than the consequence as their explanation of "foreknowledge" demands. Romans 9:11 defines election as uninfluenced by any kind of future decisions or acts of goodness or badness

(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

Yet their definition of election based upon their definition of "foreknowledge" direction contradicts election as defined by Paul in Romans 9:11 as Paul denies election is determined by foreknown acts of men.

Their defintion of "foreknowledge" also contradicts passages of scripture which clearly define election to be strictly of "grace" or undeserved faor and yet the have God choosing those who He sees choose him.

Their definition of "foreknowledge" also contradicts John 17:2 with John 6:37, John 6:44 and Eph. 1:4. All these passages cleary establish that it is the Father who chooses (Eph. 1:4) and gives the chosen ones to the Son in order to give eternal life unto (Jn. 17:2) while not choosing to do wo with the rest:

As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. - Jn. 17:2

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out....that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
- Jn. 6:3739

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. - Jn. 6:44-45

Who does He have power over? ANSWER: "all flesh"

Who does He give eternal life to? ANSWER: "as many as thou hast given him"

Who comes to Christ? ANSWER: "ALL that the Father giveth me"

How many that come will be lost ANSWER: "of all...I should lose nothing"

Who can come? ANSWER: "no man can..exept the Father...draw him"

How many will be taught by the Father? ANSWER: "ALL taught of God"

How many taught will come to Christ? ANSWER: "EVERY MAN..cometh"

What is the consequence of being elected, given, and drawn by the Father? ANSWER: "every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

What is that John 6:40 is introduced by the very same words as verses 38-39 "This is the Father's will" showing that those in verse 40 who believe are those in verse 39 who were given to the Son that none should be lost.

Election by the Father is restricted to only those the Father gives to the Son in order for the Son to give eternal life unto (Jn. 17:2). Therefore ALL those given by the Father to the Son will come to the Son (Jn. 6:37) and not one shall be lost (Jn. 6:39) because they are the "every one" that believeth on him" (Jn. 6:40). The same ones given by the Father who effectuallly come to the Son in faith (Jn. 6:37-40) are those drawn by the Father (Jn. 6:44) because the very same person drawn "him" is the very same "him" that is raised (Jn. 6:44) demonstrating that "ALL" the Father teaches, "EVERY MAN" thus taught "cometh unto me" (Jn. 6:45).

Thus election is not based upon looking forward to see who would believe and who would not believe, but it is based upon God's eternal purpose of salvation to give unto the Son some of fallen depraved underserving mankind to Christ for the purpose to give eternal life (Jn. 17:2) so that might become holy (Eph. 1:4) and might come to Christ for eternal life while leaving the rest of mankind free to follow their FORESEEN rejection of God (Psa. 14:2-3; Rom. 3:10-11).

The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.
3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one. - Psa. 14:2-3

This is the passage from which Paul quotes in Romans 3:9-11 in order to prove there are no human beings within the human race that freely choose to seek God or do righteousness. This is what God foresaw "The LORD looked down from heavn to see." He saw NONE that would freely choose to seek Him and yet the Arminian definition of "foreknowledge" directly contradicts this thrice repeated statement by God (Psa. 14:2-3; 54:2-3; Rom. 3:9-11).

There is a clear cause and effect relationship in these verses (Jn. 17:2; 6:37-40; 44-45). The cause of coming to Christ is being GIVEN by the Father and the very term "GIVEN" in John 6:65 is used as a synonym of "draw" in John 6:44 and so the cause for coming is equally being DRAWN. All that are GIVEN come and all who are DRAWN come.
Eternal life is the EFFECT of the CAUSE of being GIVEN to the Son for that purpose (Jn. 17:2). The Father did not give "all flesh" to the Son for that purpose (Jn. 17:2). The effect of coming to the Son is first being GIVEN by the Father to the Son (Jn. 6:37). All who are willing to believe in him is the EFFECT of being first GIVEN to Him (Jn. 6:39-40).

 

I agree that Hebrews 6:4-6 reaffirms John 6:37-40. Hebrews 3 ought to be interpreted in the light of the writers own explanation given in Hebrews 4:1-2 - or those who rebelled against God never really believed the gospel although they heard and knew the gospel.

There is no distinction between the kingdom "of God" and the kingdom "of heaven" as both designations are used in the same parable by different gospel writers showing they are synonyms.

 

Possible in whose mind?

 

No Sir, it is scriptures that define "grace" as unmerited favor and your order is wrong. It should be "no grace no faith" rather than "no faith no grace" as faith is of grace not vice versa (Rom. 4:16).

1. "justified freely by grace" - Rom. 3:24 - term translated "freely" means "without a cause." No cause found in the justified but rather in Christ.

2. "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed;" - Rom. 4:16. What makes "the promise" "sure " is grace as it is not conditioned upon our obedience - Faith is a gift of God (Eph. 2:8; Phllip. 1:29) of which God is the author (Heb. 12:2) and therefore is a "work of God" (Jn. 6:29) that must be "given unto him" of the Father (Jn. 6:64-65).

3. "and if by grace it is no longer or works" - Rom. 11:6 - contrasted with what man does "works".

4. "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth" - Grace is not the product of our work and neither is faith. If it were then God would be in our "debt."

Faith has no existence in a vacuum or by its self. "Faith is the substance of things hoped for." Faith is inseparable from the object that provides the basis for hope. Faith saves no one. Faith justifies no one. It is the object of faith that determines its validity for salvation or justification. Faith is not a substitute for righteousness. Faith that saves or justifies is always IN something that can save or justify. Faith is a "gift of God" (Philip. 1:29) and not all have been given faith (2 Thes.3:1) because faith is "of grace" not of us.