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The contradiction with the Christology

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Askjo, May 29, 2010.

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  1. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    When I found 2 verses in modern versions, these verses contradicted each other. That means that God contradicts Himself because the Bible is the God-speaking. If so, the Bible is wholly N.G. Look at these contradictions here:

    Jesus said, “My testimony is not valid”

    Jesus said, “My testimony is valid.”

    Or

    Jesus said, “My witness is not true”

    Jesus said, “My witness is true.”

    Either is found in modern versions. Check with NIV and NKJV for an example. Look at John 8:14 and 5:31.

    When you use modern versions, you have a trouble with that because of the dishonesty in modern versions

    If the Bible CANNOT contradicts itself, therefore God CANNOT contradict Himself. The KJV is perfect for the doctrinal clarification.
     
    #1 Askjo, May 29, 2010
  2. jbh28

    jbh28 Active Member

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    John 5:31 "If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true."
    John 8:14 "...Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true:..."

    You talking about this?
     
    #2 jbh28, May 29, 2010
  3. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    John 8:14 "Jesus answered, "Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going." (NIV)

    Jesus answered, "Even if I do bear witness about myself, my testimony is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going, but you do not know where I come from or where I am going. (ESV)

    Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go. (KJV)


    John 5:31 "If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid. " (NIV)

    If I alone bear witness about myself, my testimony is not deemed true. (ESV)

    If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. (KJV)

    What's the problem? All the versions say the same thing.
     
    #3 annsni, May 29, 2010
  4. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    In a similar vein, I came across this one while studying for tomorrows class on Luke 9

    My question --- How can we reconcile Luke 9:50 and Matthew 12:30?

    He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
    Matthew 12:30 (AV 1873)

    And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
    Luke 9:50 (AV 1873)

    Contradition or something else?

    Rob
     
    #4 Deacon, May 29, 2010
  5. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Actually, looking at the passages a bit more, I think the ESV handles the translation the best. Definitely better than the KJV.
     
    #5 annsni, May 29, 2010
  6. jbh28

    jbh28 Active Member

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    I agree. I don't think the OP did his homework because I quoted the KJV in my post. Reading the passage in context, none contradict. People who try to show contradictions have done this one too. It is just simply misreading the text.
     
    #6 jbh28, May 29, 2010
  7. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    In Askjo's defense, I have done the same thing, right on this board. English is such an imperfect and confusing language.
     
    #7 Mexdeaf, May 30, 2010
  8. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Prov 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

    Prov 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

    Seeming contradictions are within single translations, too.
     
    #8 Dr. Bob, May 30, 2010
  9. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Especially when it is not your first language as in Askjo's case.
     
    #9 NaasPreacher (C4K), May 30, 2010
  10. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    When you come with your presupposition firmly in place (like those who deny God's Word do and assume there are contradictions), you already have your answer and no amount of fact or truth will dissuade you. They begin with the end. That's the problem. Thus, they set themselves up as jury over God's Word.

    I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.
     
    #10 TomVols, May 30, 2010
  11. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    It is also found in the KJV:

    My witness is not true
    My record is true

    Askjo, are you still unwilling to think before you post?


    No you don't.

    Actually, this is totally backwards, like most of your arguments. Since God cannot contradict himself, therefore the Bible cannot contradict itself.

    This is exactly the reason why your OP is wrong. You say that God contradicts himself. I totally reject that kind of God. If you think God contradicts himself, as you argued, then you are the one with the problem. The problem is not with the Bible. You cannot try to make the Bible fit your scheme. You are bound to submit your heart and mind to the Bible.

    If you read the Bible, the answer to your problem is actually very clear and surprisingly easy. There are some very difficult issues in translations; this is not one of them.

    Actually, it is very confusing on some points, particularly with respect to language.
     
    #11 Pastor Larry, May 31, 2010
  12. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    I need to start living in a world where I begin with the end. I'd be a whole lot smarter :thumbs:

    Pastor Larry, good to see you. We miss you around here.
     
    #12 TomVols, May 31, 2010
  13. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    Can you tell me if these contradict each other or not?
     
    #13 Askjo, May 31, 2010
  14. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    When reading their context, it's clear that they are not contradictory at all.
     
    #14 annsni, May 31, 2010
  15. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    The same thing? One word on 2 verses in modern versions contradicting WHO Jesus Christ is. For example, when you sit at a table -- ready for dinner, can your 2 hands hold one knife and cut the meat? Where is a fork? Sure, YOU CAN”T! Most people have one hand for a knife and other hand for a fork then they can cut the meat easily.

    You see one word, “TESTIMONY” on 2 verses in NIV there. You see they could be one sentence for ONE word, “testimony.” Then you absolutely have the problem like 2 hands holding ONE knife then it is incapable to cut the meat. Let’s look at ONE sentence for illustration:

    Jesus said, “My testimony is true and not true.”

    Here is the biggest problem that affects the doctrine of Jesus Christ.

    Ok, now look at the KJV. The KJV has 2 DIFFERENT words that do not contradict WHO Jesus Christ is. The same thing? NO!
     
    #15 Askjo, May 31, 2010
  16. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    jbh28 pointed at the KJV. You are right.
     
    #16 Askjo, May 31, 2010
  17. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    So why do you think John the Apostle used the same word in both verses?


    If John, under the inspiration of the Spirit used the same word in both verses, why did the KJV change it? Is the KJV at fault for changing the inspired word of God? Or was John's use of the same word in both verses not inspired?

    And why is the NIV wrong for doing what John did?
     
    #17 Pastor Larry, May 31, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 31, 2010
  18. jbh28

    jbh28 Active Member

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    No, my point was that even in the KJV, there is the supposed "contradiction." When one reads it in context, it is not a contradiction. Record and witness is speaking of the same thing here. Just because the KJV changes the English term doesn't make the contradiction go away. When it does go away is when the context of the passages is read.
     
    #18 jbh28, May 31, 2010
  19. jbh28

    jbh28 Active Member

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    Why is the NIV wrong?

    The KJV is right.
    The NIV isn't the same as the KJV
    The NIV is wrong..


    come on, simple logic...:D
     
    #19 jbh28, May 31, 2010
  20. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Very true. LOL Of course we know that the KJV is the measuring stick! The original writers got it wrong and the KJV's translation is what they really meant to say.
     
    #20 annsni, May 31, 2010
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