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What happened to us at Christ death ?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by dan p, Jul 16, 2010.

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  1. dan p

    dan p New Member

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    Hi to all and some believers say that at Christ death we are WATER Baptized into His death .

    In Gal 2:20 , " I am crucified with Christ , neverthe less I live , yet not I but Christ liveth in me . And the life which I now live in the flesh I LIVE BY THE FAITH of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me .

    And this is just the tip of the iceberg .

    I am crucified is the Greek verb SUSTAUROO , and means " to crucify along with " .

    #1 , First person Singular , and this means are saved are named here , whether you know it or not .

    #2 , It is in the Greek Perfect Tense , which means it covers two time periods , Past and Present . This means that the Results of what happened in the Past , Continue on into the Present time , never to be REPEATED AT AND OTHER TIME .

    #3 , PASSIVE VOICE , refers to and action upon the believer , and in this case God is Reckoning the believer to have been CRUCIFIED spiritually with His Son , like in Rom 6:3 and 4 .

    #4 , In the Indicative Mood , tells us this trutth is a FACT .

    That means that we are dead to the follow things ;

    #5 , Dead to the world , Gal 6:14 .

    #6 , Dead to the flesh Gak 5:24 .

    #7 , Dead to sin Rom 6:2 , 7 , 11 .

    #8 , Dead to the Law of Moses Rom 7:4 .

    And like I said , it will need to be fleshed out and I do not have time and will be gone for a week .
     
    #1 dan p, Jul 16, 2010
  2. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    dan P:".....some believers say that at Christ death we are WATER Baptized into His death....."

    GE:
    Is this what you are writing about, "WATER Baptized", or, "Baptized into His death"?

    Because the first I don't see written in any manner anywhere, although I can see the second and CONTRARY notion written, implied, and truly MEANT in the New Testament EVERYWHERE.
     
    #2 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jul 17, 2010
  3. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter New Member

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    Romans 6:2 precedes Romans 6:3-4. In Romans 6:2 Paul refers back to Romans 5:12-21 and the representative Person and work of Jesus Christ that we identified with in justification "by the law...of faith" in Romans 3:24-5:2. The Aorist tense points back to a completed action in the past when we were justified "by the law...of faith" which Romans 3:24-25 defines as the law where faith is terminated "IN" the object of Christ's death as the propitiation of God's righteousness for us.

    In Romans 6:3-4 Paul gives an additional reminder of that object of faith wherein we were justified as it is symbolically expresed in baptism. In baptism that identification with the death, burial and resurrection of Christ is made clearly visible as the expression of our faith IN Christ just as circumcision for Abraham was the external visible "sign and seal" of justfication he ALREADY HAD in uncircumcision (Rom. 4:12). However, circumcision gave it a symbolic expression in the life of Abraham.

     
    #3 Dr. Walter, Jul 17, 2010
  4. dan p

    dan p New Member

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    Like in Gal 2:20 !!!

    Hi GE , and I do not know where Paul says I WATER BAPTIZED , and I am ready to defend Paul IN what will be said !!!

    We are BAPTIZED/PLACED into His death , like in Gal 2:20 !

    So , how did we get into Christ Crucifixion on the cross , by Water is false teaching and 1 Cor 12: 13 , placed into Christ bythe Holy Spirit is the ANSWER.
     
    #4 dan p, Jul 17, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2010
  5. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    GE:

    Then why should 'baptism' --- Christian baptism "in the Name" --- do different than circumcision that "gave ... symbolic expression in the life...."? Is Christian baptism a SPIRITUAL thing or not? It is 'spiritual' and it is WITH and BY and THROUGH the Holy Spirit, and IN and INTO and WITHIN "The Name" of God Tri-Une "the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit". Christian baptism is the baptism which SAVES because it a baptism "IN THE NAME"-- THIS Name of God Tri-Une "WITHOUT WORKS", and therefore WITHOUT WATER.

    However, I closed case in peace with a Church that sees things differently; and wish to contribute to its peace in Christ, and not to the terrible dissent and division and strife caused by the very baptism so made the bone of contention by the Church.
     
    #5 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jul 18, 2010
  6. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    Something happened but nothing happened to us. We would not exist for 2000 years.

    But if one wants to play a game of "what happened to future generations when God made a deal with someone in the past," The Abraham incident might be logical place to start. What happened to Lubavitcher Jews living in Brooklyn, New York when God made a deal with Abraham?
     
    #6 billwald, Jul 18, 2010
  7. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    GE:

    That is truth! There - in our day - is NO other 'Christian', Bible, -baptism!

    But, can we help for the fact the Church does not believe the same? Must we leave the Church because of water-baptism? It's a VERY DIFFICULT ISSUE. I thought I shall stay loyal to the Church despite water-baptism. The little toe cannot tell the head because you have a headache I'm going to cut myself off your foot.
     
    #7 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jul 18, 2010
  8. dan p

    dan p New Member

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    Where does it say christian Baptism ???

    Hi , and where are the christians, so-called in the Matt. , MARK , LUKR AND JOHN ??? Show that verse , please and I will be leaving and going to a convention , on the 19 th and be back on SAT . DAN P
     
    #8 dan p, Jul 19, 2010
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