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ESV Compared To The NIrV

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Rippon, Jul 30, 2010.

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  1. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    I have said before that the ESV is a conservative and sound translation.However, the way in which it uses the English language is rather poor in numerous cases.

    There is that classic line in Leviticus 26:10 :"You shall eat old store long kept" for example. Now that's just Tonto-talk;there's no way to get around that fact.

    A 21st century translation should not use Yoda-speak. It may sound very soothing to some when that kind of biblish is employed.No one speaks like that. It is certain that a modern version should use standard,21st century English.Remove the antiquated phraseology.Perhaps a future ESV edition will reflect better English. We can hope -- can't we?

    In this thread I will compare snippets of both the ESV and the NIrV. The latter is far superior to the former in the examples I will furnish.

    The ESV will be at the top, and the NIrV will be below.

    Isaiah

    1:6
    ESV : they are not pressed out
    NIrV : They haven't been cleaned up

    2:22
    ESV : stop regarding man
    NIrV : Stop trusting human beings

    3:12
    ESV : they have swallowed up the course of your paths
    NIrV : They have turned you away from the right path

    5:9
    ESV : without inhabitant
    NIrV : no one living in them

    8:7
    ESV : the waters of the River,mighty and many
    NIrV : the mighty Euphrates River when it is flooding

    19:3
    ESV : the spirit of the Egyptians within them will be emptied out
    NIrV : The people of Egypt will lose hope

    21:4
    ESV : horror has appalled me
    NIrV : fear makes me tremble

    33:18
    ESV : Where is he who counted the towers?
    NIrV : Where is the officer in charge of the towers

    38:10
    ESV : the middle of my days
    NIrV : the best years of my life

    38:11
    ESV : I shall look on man no more
    NIrV : I'll never see people anymore

    41:15
    ESV : I make of you a threshing sledge
    NIrV : I will make you into a threshing sled
     
    #1 Rippon, Jul 30, 2010
  2. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Continuing In Isaiah

    43:4
    ESV : I give men in return for you
    NIrV : I will give other people for you

    43:13
    ESV : I work, and who can turn it back?
    NIrV : When I do something, who can undo it?

    48:2
    ESV : and stay themselves on the God of Israel
    NIrV : You say you depend on Israel's God.

    49:4
    ESV : yet surely my right is with the Lord
    NIrV : the Lord will give me what I should receive

    49:9
    ESV : They shall feed along the ways
    NIrV : they will eat beside the roads

    50:5
    ESV : I turned not backward
    NIrV : I haven't turned away from him

    52:14
    ESV : beyond human semblance
    NIrV : he did not look like a human being anymore

    53:3
    ESV : we esteemed him not
    NIrV : We didn't have any respect for him.

    54:3
    ESV : people the desolate cities
    NIrV : settle down in the deserted cities
     
    #2 Rippon, Jul 31, 2010
  3. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Concluding Isaiah

    55:2
    ESV : Why do you spend your money for that which is not bread
    NIrV : Why spend money on what is not food?

    58:5
    ESV : Is such the fast that I choose
    NIrV : Do you think that is the way I want you to fast?

    60:20
    ESV : Your sun shall no more go down
    NIrV : Your sun will never set again.

    60:22
    ESV : in its time I will hasten it
    NIrV : When it is the right time, I will act quickly.

    62:6
    ESV : You who put the Lord in remembrance
    NIrV : You who call out to the Lord

    63:15
    ESV : beautiful habitation
    NIrV : glorious throne

    65:22
    ESV : They shall not build and another inhabit
    NIrV : They will no longer build houses only to have others live in them.
     
    #3 Rippon, Jul 31, 2010
  4. jonathan.borland

    jonathan.borland Active Member

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    I don't think anyone will argue that the ESV is less readable than the NIV. At least I certainly won't. I gave my daughter the NIrV and she really likes it. And I can vouch from my own experiments that international students who have English as their second language prefer the NIV over the ESV almost always.
     
    #4 jonathan.borland, Jul 31, 2010
  5. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    Certainly.

    The crux of the matter lies in the translation methodology. Does one believe the words of a translation should strictly adhere to the words of the mss, or does one believe we have considerable lattitude relative to the version's reflection of the words of the mss. At some point, it relates back to a view of inspiration.

    That said, it doesn't mean a person who is NIV/TNIV de facto is unorthodox relative to their inspiration mode. No one argues that the ESV could use better wording here and there (just like the NIV/TNIV could).
     
    #5 TomVols, Jul 31, 2010
  6. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    No,that's not it. The ESV doesn't use a cumbersome style to somehow enhance it's so-called essentially English philosophy. Although it seems that quite a lot of folks believe that if a given version employs awkward English -- it must be essentially literal.


    Do you actually think the ESV adheres to the actual words of manuscripts?

    Are you saying that the NIV family uses considerable latitude?

    You are speaking rubbish here.

    LOL! The ESV could use better English here and there?! Come on! Its deplorable English is pervasive. The TNIV needs an update -- but not nearly to the ESV needs an extensive revision. Then it should be called the REPV = the Revised English Provisional Version.
     
    #6 Rippon, Aug 1, 2010
  7. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    You don't believe translation methodology matters to the final product? Wow.
    begs the question.
    Perjorative, assumes facts not in evidence.
    In totality, a red herring.
    Fallacy...assumes facts not in evidence.
    Like all translations, they do and they don't. so? Extrapolation noted :tongue3:
    Since I never said that, I recommend you conclude I didn't say that :smilewinkgrin:
    From the Rippon dictionary: Rubbish = that which doesn't agree with me :smilewinkgrin: Seriously, you don't think a translator/team's view of inspiration affects the final product in any way? Answer carefully.

    Perjorative. Assumes facts not in evidence.
    The former is true. The latter is true to an extent. Extensive? Depends on the opinion. But then again, that's our biggest difference. My opinion is opinion. You view yours as unquestionable fact.
     
    #7 TomVols, Aug 1, 2010
  8. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    I never said such a thing. The translators of the NIV,NIrV and TNIV all believe in plenary inspiration. That's the bottom line. You're trying to say by implication that any version which is not formally-equivalent does not adhere to plenary inspiration . You are flat-out wrong.

    Perry Mason lives!

    So you are maintaining that the NIV family adheres to plenary inspiration.Further, that the NIV family does not use considerable latitude in their respective translational methodologies.

    No,rubbish is in reference to remarks made which are completely invalid.

    The translators of the NIV family all adhere to verbal and plenary inspiration. Since this thread deals specifically with the NIrV and ESV -- Do you think the translators of either translation team have compromised in this area?

    You're a riot sometimes. I could cite many times in which you have admitted the sad state of the ESV's English. You are arguing against yourself.

    Yes, the ESV needs an extensive revision. That's just a fact Mac. Just review my many threads comparing the ESV to other translations. The deplorable English of the ESV is indeed pervasive throught the canon. The TNIV needs an updating -- which was just completed. It didn't need an overhaul like the ESV demands.
     
    #8 Rippon, Aug 1, 2010
  9. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    I use both the ESV and the NIrV on a daily basis (as a matter of fact, I am reading through the NIrV this year). Neither is perfect. However, if I had to pick just one I would go with the ESV because the NIrV is too 'loose' in it's translation at times.

    But again, that is just my opinion and worth much less than 2¢.
     
    #9 Mexdeaf, Aug 2, 2010
  10. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    God bless you, Rippon.
     
    #10 TomVols, Aug 2, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 2, 2010
  11. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    ESV :..."a striving after wind."
     
    #11 Rippon, Aug 2, 2010
  12. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    MSG: "it’s nothing but smoke—smoke, and spitting into the wind."

    Who knew Jim Croce was involved working on the Message :laugh:
     
    #12 TomVols, Aug 2, 2010
  13. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Joshua

    2:9
    ESV : all the inhabitants of the land melt away before you
    NIrV : Everyone who lives in this country is weak with fear because of you.

    4:6
    ESV : this may be a sign among you
    NIrV : The stones will serve as a reminder to you.

    6:27
    ESV : his fame was in all the land
    NIrV : And Joshua became famous everywhere in the land.

    7:14
    ESV : you shall be brought near by your tribes
    NIrV : come forward tribe by tribe

    7:14
    ESV : shall come near man by man
    NIrV : will come forward one by one

    11:7
    ESV : suddenly ...fell upon them
    NIrV : attacked them suddenly

    17:5
    ESV : Thus there fell to Manasseh ten portions
    NIrV : Manasseh's share was made up of ten pieces of land.

    20:3
    ESV : the manslayer who strikes any person without intent or unknowingly
    NIrV : Those who kill a person by accident...[or] those who kill a person without meaning to.

    22:31
    ESV : the Lord is in our midst
    NIrV : the Lord is with us
     
    #13 Rippon, Aug 5, 2010
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