20 Questions to Ask before Joining a Church

Still learning....

I dont believe that the answer should be "Yes" to all of these questions.

number 10...

My answer to that is no. I completely agree that there is counterfiet "tongues" that are masquarading as the authentic, but I believe there are probably some who could have the legitimate gift.

I give a no to that one as well.

All of the tried and true versions of the Bible are equally the literal "word of God."

Of course the Mormons bible, and the JW's bible are not Gods word. And I have issues with the NIV.

But the King James version is definetly not the ONLY version that is the word of God.

 

Gee, I flunked. I got four or five wrong.

I I believe in inerrant scripture, but I'm not sure we have a perfect extant copy.
II. If the question means that the KJV is the only infallible copy, I don't think so.
IX I don't believe that the Holy Spirit baptizes into the body of Christ. That's water baptism, in my view.
XIII The church is the bride of Christ, but only when it convenes at the Marriage Supper. Until then, there are only local congregations, each one the bride, each one the body. There is no Universal Church. It is confused with the Kingdom, made up of subjects of the King.
XVII I believe in a physical return of Christ, but I don't know about imminence.

If you were the pastor would you let me join your church based on my views?

My disagreement with those four items, however, would not prevent me from seeking membership in that church. We're not talking heresy here, just different views.

 

Needs Updated

I can get along and agree with all of it with a minor adjustment.

As far as #2, I would not ask a pastor that question, but would instead, leave out the KJV part, and ask him if he believes in the Bible he is holding, as the Word of God. I am talking within Baptist churches, no need to hypothesize that perhaps he is holding the Message, the NSB or NWT or similar.


A simple "Yes" answer would suffice.

There are many more issues today that could be asked before joining a church, and added to this list, whether to be vocally asked, or to look for before joining.

I'd say his list could definitely be updated. It sounds as if it came out of the 4 volume set "The Fundamentals" c. 1900.

 

I'll answer these as if I were the pastor...

I believe God has preserved His Word for us, but not an infallible copy.

No. I don't believe any translation to be "infallible". I believe the KJV is one of many good english translations of God's Word.

Yes

If by man you mean "male", the answer is yes. If by "man" you are referring to humankind, the answer is no.

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

No. I believe God in His sovereignty can use any of the gifts displayed throughout time if He so chooses to do so.

Yes

Yes

yes

Yes, if it aligns with God's Word

Yes

I cannot agree to something I cannot have knowledge of.

Yes

Yes, although we cannot know what Hell will be like, whether it is "burning" or not.

Yes

Yes

 

Well I wouldn't not join a church just because they didn't answer all my questions perfectly. There are some places where there are not an abundance of churches. (Not everyone lives in the "Bible belt.") I would say that there are some on here that I would make a stand on. (deity of Christ, infallible Scripture...though not the false definition given here, and a few others.

I. Do you believe God has preserved an infallible copy of His word for us today?
I believe what God says and nothing more. I believe God has preserved His word perfectly. Show me one Scripture that says that God will preserve an "infallible copy" of His word. (I'm assuming it's referring to a complete Bible of Genesis to Revelation.)

II. Do you believe the King James Bible is God's infallible word for the English speaking people?
No. The Bible is God's infallible Word. The KJV is an excellent man made translation of that infallible Word.

III. Do you believe that God is a Holy Trinity, consisting of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?
Yes

IV. Do you believe that the Lord Jesus Christ was born of a virgin, without a man being involved, and lived a sinless life for thirty-three years as God manifest in the flesh?
Yes

V. Do you believe that the Lord Jesus Christ died and paid for our sins on Calvary's cross through the shedding of His own sinless blood?
Yes

VI. Do you believe that the Lord Jesus Christ rose physically from the dead for our justification?
Yes

VII. Do you believe that the Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ, currently sits at the right hand of God the Father as our High Priest?

Yes

VIII. Do you believe that the Holy Spirit is a Divine Person who convicts the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment?
Yes

IX. Do you believe that the Holy Spirit is the Supernatural Agent in regeneration, baptizing all believers into the body of Christ?
Yes, and to make a note. I notices somebody says water baptism. That sounds very catholic to me, but would need more info on what he means. Water baptism isn't required for salvation or to be into the body of Christ.


X. Do you believe that the apostolic sign gifts of the Holy Spirit, such as speaking in tongues and the gift of healing, are not for today, since they were for the purpose of confirming the preached word of God to Israel in the first century?
Yes/No. I don't believe the junk that goes on today has anything to do with the signs of the gifts of the spirit. People speaking garbage talk is pointless. It isn't edifying anyone. It's not necessary. In the NT when people spoke in tongues, it was to get a message across. Speaking in tongues to an all English congregation is pointless. Also, hitting somebody on the head to "heal" them wasn't part of the gifts either.

So, in answer to your question, I haven't seen anybody with these gifts and don't think they are necessary anymore today. That doesn't mean that God couldn't give the gift to somebody that would need it in a situation.


XI. Do you believe that all men are born with a sin nature, and that salvation through Christ is needful for all?
Yes

XII. Do you believe in the eternal security of those who have received Christ as Savior?
Yes

XIII. Do you believe that the church is the bride of Christ, consisting of all born-again believers?
Yes - though supprised to see this question. I thought this type of person was a "local church" only type

XIV. Do you believe in the autonomy of the local church?Yes

XV. Do you recognize water baptism and the Lord's Supper as Scriptural ordinances of obedience for the church?
Yes

XVI. Do you agree that the majority of professing Christianity is in apostasy, and that true Christians need to practice Biblical separation from such people?


As noted above, I don't have this knowledge and it's sad this type of question is being asked. Comes from pride.

XVII. Do you believe in the literal, physical, imminent Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ?
Yes

XVIII. Do you believe in a literal glorious Heaven for the saved, and in a literal burning Hell for the lost?
Yes

IXX. Do you believe that Satan is a literal living being who opposes God, and who will be condemned to eternal punishment in the Lake of Fire?
Yes

XX. Do you believe in the literal word-for-word Genesis account of creation?

Yes

 

Not so friend. Not even close.


From Wikipedia:

(I own the Volumes.)


The Fundamentals or The Fundamentals: A Testimony To The Truth edited by A. C. Dixon and later by Reuben Archer Torrey is a set of 90 essays in 12 volumes published from 1910 to 1915 by the Bible Institute of Los Angeles. They were designed to affirm orthodox Protestant beliefs and defend against ideas deemed inimical to them. They are widely considered to be the foundation of the modern Fundamentalist movement.
The essays were originally financed by Lyman Stewart[1] in 1909[2] to set out what they believed to be the fundamentals of Christian faith.[2] These were to be sent free to ministers, missionaries, Sunday School superintendents and others active in Christian ministry.[3]
The volumes defended orthodox Protestant beliefs and attacked higher criticism, liberal theology, Catholicism (also called by them Romanism), socialism, modern philosophy, atheism, Christian Science, Mormonism, Millennial Dawn (an early term for a particular Christian Bible Student movement which mostly later became the "Jehovah's Witnesses" denomination), Spiritualism, and evolutionism (an article by geologist George Frederick Wright). (Wright did not attack biological evolution.)

Thus my c. 1900.


Also, maybe the Fundamentals do need to be updated? I said updated, not changed. They were a reaction to Higher Criticism and liberal thelogy. There is a lot of bad theology out there today. I am certain thinking Christians can come up with a few more Fundamentals.

Thanks for the rebuttal friend, but you need to look into this further. Your timing is way off. It makes me think you have no clue as to what The Fundamentals truly are, nor why they were written. Look into it perhaps?

:thumbs:

 

Hey stilllearning,

I appreciate your reply. It shows you as a genuine person with humility. Everyone can respect that.

You should go out and purchase this set of books, being a fundamentalist, and read them. They are written by men of God who loved His Word so much, that they attacked the criticism set forth against tenets of the faith.

I hear what you are saying in your respect of the Word, and not of what else is written, but do remember, God set in the church teachers and others gifts to help all of us, to edify us.

Don't go down the road of only ever reading Scriptures, as God gifted other men and women to help you and enlighten your understanding. God uses men to help us.

Keep in mind also, that in order to answer mankind, you must be filled with the Spirit, 1 Cor. 2, and as Paul and others, wise to the times and traditions of men. God uses all of these things.

Keep learning friend, and I hope to hear from you again.

Thanks a lot.

:thumbs:

 

What an poor list. Nothing on it about missions, evangelism, methodology of outreach. Nothing about approach of teaching, church discipline, priority of worship, spiritual formation.

Guess we can have all the "right" doctrines but no way to reach or teach them.

Oh and this:

Yeah I 100% disagree with. You know I think if the list isn't from The Fundamentals it was written by someone who learned from the books.

I can list on one hand the number of churches that I know of that would agree with all of these points. I'll give you guess at the number...

It's a terribly bad list.

 

I was the one who mentioned water baptism, and here's why.

Statement IX is based on I Corinthians 12:13 "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into the body."

The word "by" comes from the Greek "en" which can just as easily be translated "in." I think that's the proper rendering. "In one Spirit we are all baptized into the body." Paul spends a good deal of time in I Corinthians instructing the folks there how to behave in church--their local congregation. I believe that's what he means here. The body into which they were baptized is the Corinthian congregation, having been led by the Spirit.

I hold that the body referred to in v 13 is the Corinthian church because later in the chapter, in v. 27, he specifically says "now you are THE body, and members in particular. Corinthian church=the bodyl

Further, Acts 2:41 relates that those who responded to Peter's message, who received his word, were baptized, and added to the Jerusalem congregation. Note the order: baptized, added to the church.

You mentioned that my view sounds catholic. On the contrary, the King James scholars, who were Church of England (Catholic without the Pope), applied their biases (baptismal regeneration, universal church) to 12:13.

To be clear, my view in no way contributes to salvation. And there is no such thing as the universal church.

See also Acts 20:28, where the Paul counseled the Ephesian elders to feed the church of God. The church of God=the congregation at Ephesus over which the Holy Spirit had made them overseers. Note that it is THE church of God.

In Luke 3:16 John the Baptist said, "I baptize you with water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you WITH the Holy Spirit and with fire."
Jesus does the baptizing WITH the Spirit. The Spirit baptizes no one.

And finally, Paul, in Ephesians 4:5 says there is only one baptism. I believe it's water baptism.

Again, this view is probably a minority view in most churches, including my own church. So it's obviously not a test of fellowship for me, and would not be a deal-breaker if a church held the opposite view.

 

Tom
Many see 1 cor 12:13 as Spirit baptism......water baptism following same with eph4 rom6 col2 and acts2

 

Wow. There are some real gems here.

First of all, Roman numerals are ridiculous.

Second, I don't have a copy of this book, but I wonder if it has gnosticism or arianism. If not, it's a crappy book of heresies.

Third, a little commentary:

1. Do you believe God has preserved an infallible copy of His word for us today?

Okay, I guess.

2. Do you believe the King James Bible is God's infallible word for the English speaking people?

Here's a real heresy.

3. Do you believe that God is a Holy Trinity, consisting of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?

Unless you're going to a charismatic church or your pastor is as theologically astute as Joel Osteen, you're not going to have this problem. (Most charismatics would affirm orthodox trinitarianism, btw.) Even then, this question doesn't really get to the heart of a trinitarian heresy, which would go into questions of homoousious and all that good stuff.

4. Do you believe that the Lord Jesus Christ was born of a virgin, without a man being involved, and lived a sinless life for thirty-three years as God manifest in the flesh?

Okay.

5. Do you believe that the Lord Jesus Christ died and paid for our sins on Calvary's cross through the shedding of His own sinless blood?

Okay.

6. Do you believe that the Lord Jesus Christ rose physically from the dead for our justification?

Okay...I guess...but "justification" feels a little awkward here. Salvation...maybe?

7. Do you believe that the Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ, currently sits at the right hand of God the Father as our High Priest?

This question is probably a bit superfluous and overly involved.

8. Do you believe that the Holy Spirit is a Divine Person who convicts the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment?

Omit. Already had a trinity question.

9. Do you believe that the Holy Spirit is the Supernatural Agent in regeneration, baptizing all believers into the body of Christ?

Stop at regeneration...if you really need this question in the first place.

10. Do you believe that the apostolic sign gifts of the Holy Spirit, such as speaking in tongues and the gift of healing, are not for today, since they were for the purpose of confirming the preached word of God to Israel in the first century?

I'm not strictly a cessationist, but either way, this is not an essential. No reason for this question.

11. Do you believe that all men are born with a sin nature, and that salvation through Christ is needful for all?

I hate "sin nature" here. This is one of the few times the King James gets it best. "Flesh" is the key. A "sin nature" implies something organic to created human nature. We were created without a "sin nature." It's not part of who we are at our core. "Flesh" merely gives reference to the parasitic, pervasive effects of sin on us as people and the world around us.

12. Do you believe in the eternal security of those who have received Christ as Saviour?

Eternal security is a contrived doctrine intended to help people feel un-reformed.

13. Do you believe that the church is the bride of Christ, consisting of all born-again believers?

Wow...I thought most fundies didn't believe in a universal Church. I, of course, affirm this, but many folks would get all weird about it.

14. Do you believe in the autonomy of the local church?

Not essential. And not important.

15. Do you recognize water baptism and the Lord's Supper as Scriptural ordinances of obedience for the church?

Not essential. Of course, I'm more of a sacrament person, myself.

16. Do you agree that the majority of professing Christianity is in apostasy, and that true Christians need to practice Biblical separation from such people?

*sigh* Okay. Whatever.

17. Do you believe in the literal, physical, imminent Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ?

Okay.

18. Do you believe in a literal glorious Heaven for the saved, and in a literal burning Hell for the lost?

Is hell going to be hot? I don't know. All I know is that it's gonna suck and I don't want to be there. This question needs to be rephrased a bit.

19. Do you believe that Satan is a literal living being who opposes God, and who will be condemned to eternal punishment in the Lake of Fire?

Okay.

XX. Do you believe in the literal word-for-word Genesis account of creation?


What the heck? What does "word-for-word" mean here? Ridiculous.

Do I think the world is billions of years old? No. Do I know exactly how it happened, besides being ex nihilo by fiat? No. Do I need to know to come to be called to salvation? No. Does this need to be preached? No. All we need to hear is sound exegesis of the text. Any honest evangelical scholar will admit that the Genesis text is one of the more difficult to exegete in all of the Bible because of issues of genre and language. This should never be given creedal status.

 

Upon further reflection the list is a great example of why the fundamentalist movement has increasingly been entering intellectual and social twilight.

 

My thoughts, and though it likely means I'm less holy, I'll use Arabic numerals instead of Roman:

1. I find it humorous to put foundational questions of the Christian faith next to hyper-fundy pet doctrines. Shows some pretty poor discernment as to what's really important...

2. The above set of questions in the OP is a de facto admission that anyone who doesn't agree with KJVO is guilty of heresy in the minds of many. I assume stilllearning has bought into this, er, wagonload of organic crop yield enhancer.

BTW...question 2a (IIa?) would be, "Do you believe that the King James Bible of 1611 is God's infallible word for the English speaking people?"--and then have them read a page of it, without stammering, to prove their authenticity in the matter.

3. Gotta love the open-ended separation question.

Several of the questions were quite important to ask, and I agree with the need for them. But the KJVO is outright silly...and the separation question is just vague enough to open up a can of worms, without really dealing with the issues at hand.

But hey...I'm sure that some churches appreciate all of the questions: even the ones that quite frankly shouldn't be asked (or at least shouldn't be answered in the affirmative, if one is seeking Biblical answers).

But the key point is what I highlighted in red...you've got folks who consider not buying into the KJVO myth heretical. Once that grenade has been lobbed, not sure we'll find much common ground. Sad that we've got Christians so deceived as to trivialize true heresy over their pet doctrine (and doctrinal error).

 

I. Do you believe God has preserved an infallible copy of His word for us today?

No

II. Do you believe the King James Bible is God's infallible word for the English speaking people?

No

III. Do you believe that God is a Holy Trinity, consisting of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?

Yes

IV. Do you believe that the Lord Jesus Christ was born of a virgin, without a man being involved, and lived a sinless life for thirty-three years as God manifest in the flesh?

Yes, though the question needs some rewording

V. Do you believe that the Lord Jesus Christ died and paid for our sins on Calvary's cross through the shedding of His own sinless blood?

Yes

VI. Do you believe that the Lord Jesus Christ rose physically from the dead for our justification?

Yes, though again questions needs rewording

VII. Do you believe that the Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ, currently sits at the right hand of God the Father as our High Priest?

Yes, rewording

VIII. Do you believe that the Holy Spirit is a Divine Person who convicts the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment?

Yes

IX. Do you believe that the Holy Spirit is the Supernatural Agent in regeneration, baptizing all believers into the body of Christ?

Yes, though Holy Spirit questions could be reworded into one question

X. Do you believe that the apostolic sign gifts of the Holy Spirit, such as speaking in tongues and the gift of healing, are not for today, since they were for the purpose of confirming the preached word of God to Israel in the first century?

Ehh

XI. Do you believe that all men are born with a sin nature, and that salvation through Christ is needful for all?

Yes

XII. Do you believe in the eternal security of those who have received Christ as Saviour?

Yes

XIII. Do you believe that the church is the bride of Christ, consisting of all born-again believers?

Yes

XIV. Do you believe in the autonomy of the local church?

Yes

XV. Do you recognize water baptism and the Lord's Supper as Scriptural ordinances of obedience for the church?

Yes

XVI. Do you agree that the majority of professing Christianity is in apostasy, and that true Christians need to practice Biblical separation from such people?

How in the world could I know this?

XVII. Do you believe in the literal, physical, imminent Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ?

Jesus will return it may or may not be imminent

XVIII. Do you believe in a literal glorious Heaven for the saved, and in a literal burning Hell for the lost?

I believe heaven is much better and hell is much worse then limits of human language could ever describe

IXX. Do you believe that Satan is a literal living being who opposes God, and who will be condemned to eternal punishment in the Lake of Fire?

Yes

XX. Do you believe in the literal word-for-word Genesis account of creation?

God is Creator, that is enough for me

 

Don't blame "The Fundamentals" for this errant doctrine.
When one is stillearning the fundamentals, and getting it wrong, there's a problem.

We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn.
In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food!
Hebrews 5:11–12 (NIV)

Answers from "The Fundamentals"

II. Do you believe the King James Bible is God's infallible word for the English speaking people?

The doctrine of verbal inspiration is simply this: The original writings, ipsissima verba, came through the penmen direct from God; and the critics are only throwing dust into the air when they rail against verbal inspiration and attempt to disprove it by pointing out the apparent errors and discrepancies of the authorized and revised texts.
R. A. Torrey, Charles Lee Feinberg and Warren W. Wiersbe, vol. 2, The Fundamentals : The Famous Sourcebook of Foundational Biblical Truths (Public Domain), 45.

XVI. Do you agree that the majority of professing Christianity is in apostasy, and that true Christians need to practice Biblical separation from such people?

The one true Church is composed of all believers in the Lord Jesus. It is made up of all God’s elect—of all converted men and women—of all true Christians. In whomsoever we can discern the election of God the Father, the sprinkling of the blood of God the Son, the sanctifying work of God the Spirit, in that person we see a member of Christ’s true Church.
It is a Church of which all the members have the same marks. They are all born of the Spirit; they all possess “repentance towards God, faith towards our Lord Jesus Christ,” and holiness of life and conversation. They all hate sin, and they all love Christ. They worship differently and after various fashions; some worship with a form of prayer, and some with none; some worship kneeling, and some standing; but they all worship with one heart. They are all led by one Spirit; they all build upon one foundation; they all draw their religion from one single Book—that is the Bible. They are all joined to one great center—that is Jesus Christ. They all even now can say with one heart, “Hallelujah”; and they can all respond with one heart and voice, “Amen and Amen.”
R. A. Torrey, Charles Lee Feinberg and Warren W. Wiersbe, vol. 3, The Fundamentals : The Famous Sourcebook of Foundational Biblical Truths (Public Domain), 315-16.


XX. Do you believe in the literal word-for-word Genesis account of creation?

It does not follow that because the Bible does not teach modern science, we are justified in saying that it contradicts it. What I see in these narratives of Genesis is that, so true is the standpoint of the author, so divine the illumination with which he is endowed, so unerring his insight into the order of nature, there is little in his description that even yet, with our advanced knowledge, we need to change. You say there is the “six days” and the question whether those days are meant to be measured by the twenty-four hours of the sun’s revolution around the earth—I speak of these things popularly. It is difficult to see how they should be so measured when the sun that is to measure them is not introduced until the fourth day. Do not think that this larger reading of the days is a new speculation.R. A. Torrey, Charles Lee Feinberg and Warren W. Wiersbe, vol. 1, The Fundamentals : The Famous Sourcebook of Foundational Biblical Truths (Public Domain), 237.

Rob