1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Calvinists- How many points?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Winman, Feb 18, 2011.

?
  1. I hold to all five points of TULIP

    25 vote(s)
    71.4%
  2. I reject or have issues with T- Total Depravity

    3 vote(s)
    8.6%
  3. I reject or have issues with U- Unconditional Election

    2 vote(s)
    5.7%
  4. I reject or have issues with L- Limited Atonement

    4 vote(s)
    11.4%
  5. I reject or have issues with I- Irresistable Grace

    4 vote(s)
    11.4%
  6. I reject or have issues with P- Perseverance of the Saints

    2 vote(s)
    5.7%
  7. I reject or have issues with two or more points- Please identify which points

    2 vote(s)
    5.7%
  8. Other- Please explain

    3 vote(s)
    8.6%
Multiple votes are allowed.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,375
    Likes Received:
    1,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I believe RC Sproul would disagree with the use of thug to describe M. Calvin.

    Taken from Sproul's paper " Theologian"

    Calvin brought to the study of theology a passion for biblical truth and a coherent understanding of the Word of God. Of all of the thinkers of the sixteenth century, Calvin was most noted for his ability to provide a systematic theological understanding of Christian truth. His magnum opus, Institutes of the Christian Religion, remains to this day a titanic work in the field of systematic theology. Luther did not live long enough to recognize the full impact of Calvin’s work, though he did see that Calvin would become a towering figure. It was left to one who knew Calvin and his work more extensively, namely, Philip Melancthon, Luther’s assistant and an impressive scholar in his own right, to give Calvin the sobriquet “the Theologian.” Thus, if one mentions “the Philosopher,” we understand that to mean a reference to Aristotle. On the other hand, if one mentions “the Theologian,” the heirs of the Reformation think exclusively of John Calvin.

    In our day there seems to be an ongoing battle between advocates of systematic theology and advocates of biblical theology. We are living in a time of unprecedented antipathy toward rationality and logic. Where systematic theology used to reign supreme in theological seminaries, it has all but vanished, exiled to the perimeter of academic studies. This antipathy toward rationality and logic finds its nadir in the modern allergy against systematic theology, with nothing to fill its place except the expansion of biblical theology. A possible tendency exists in biblical theology to interpret the Bible atomistically without a concern for coherency and unity. This dichotomy between biblical theology and systematic theology is a classic example of the fallacy of the false dilemma, sometimes called the either-or fallacy. If we look to John Calvin, we see a scholar whose mastery of the content of Scripture was unparalleled. Calvin had a passion for the Bible, as well as a monumental knowledge of the Bible, and yet he is known as a systematic theologian. He was not a systematic theologian in the sense that he took some extra-biblical philosophical system and forced it upon the Bible. For him, a system was not a preconceived Procrustean bed to which the Bible was forced to conform. On the contrary, Calvin’s system of doctrine was the result of his attempt to find the coherent substance of the Bible itself. That is, Calvin worked out the system that is within Scripture, not a system that is imposed upon Scripture. Calvin was convinced that the Word of God is coherent and that God does not speak in contradictions or in illogical statements. It has been said a multitude of times that consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds. If that is in fact true, then one would have to come to the conclusion that the smallest mind in the universe is the mind of God, because God in His thinking is altogether consistent and altogether coherent. It is in that appreciation of the nature of God that Calvin sought passionately to set forth the unity of the Word of God. In that regard, he has done a masterful service to the history of Christian thought. Some people see Calvinism, bearing the name of John Calvin, as an odious distortion of the Word of God. Those who appreciate Calvin’s commitment to biblical truth see Calvinism as “a nickname for biblical Christianity,” as Spurgeon said.

    Calvin in debate could draw on his encyclopedic knowledge of biblical passages, as well as the ability to quote at length from ancient thinkers such as Augustine and Cicero. But above all things, Calvin sought to be true to the Word of God. He was the biblical theologian par excellence who was at the same time a singularly gifted systematic theologian.

    We owe a great debt to this man. He is God’s gift to the church, not only for the sixteenth century but for all time.
     
    #81 Earth Wind and Fire, Feb 20, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2011
  2. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    19,715
    Likes Received:
    585
    Faith:
    Baptist
    LOL!! You call John Calvin a "thug" and "garbage" and yet you say you engage in civil conversation?! That does not compute.
     
  3. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    19,715
    Likes Received:
    585
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Are you a Landmarker?

    You certainly say a lot of things with no basis in fact. Crack open a legit Church History book once in a while. John Calvin was never "mayor of Geneva". He didn't even become a citizen of Geneva until five years before his death.
     
  4. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,375
    Likes Received:
    1,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    A letter from Valentin Andrease, A Lutheran Minister passing through Geneva

    "When I was in Geneva, I observed something so great which I shall remember and desire as long as I live. There is in that city not only the perfect institute of a perfect republic , but, as a special ornament, a moral discipline which makes weekly investigations into the conduct, and even the smaller transgressions, of the citizens ...All cursing & swearing, gambling, luxury, strife, hatred, fraud, etc., are forbidden, while greater sins are hardly heard of. What a glorious ornament of the Christian religion is such a purity of morals! We must lament with tears that it is wanting with us (Germans), and almost totally neglected. If it were not for the difference of religion, I would have been chained to Geneva forever."
     
  5. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    11,850
    Likes Received:
    1,084
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This thread has strayed (and not for the better) from the five points of TULIP. It is not about Calvin the man. Please return to the OP.
     
  6. Robert Snow

    Robert Snow New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    4,466
    Likes Received:
    3
    I don't know if Calvin was a thug or not, but he did have a hand in the murder of another believer.
     
  7. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,375
    Likes Received:
    1,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Actually the Council of Geneva begged Calvin to leave his pastorate in Strasbourg to stop the gambling, drunkenness, street brawls, adultery etc that were permeating in Geneva. He did not want to go to Geneva & stated "there is no place I fear more" When he returned, as quoted by Historian Will Durant, Calvin behaved with moderation & modesty that won all but a small minority to his support. He labored 12 to 18 hours a day as a preacher, administrator, professor of theology, superintendent of churches & schools, advisor to municipal councils and regulator of public morals and church liturgy. His successor & biographer, Theodore de Beze, marveled that one little man could carry so heavy & varied a burden.
     
  8. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,375
    Likes Received:
    1,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Who was that...set the stage
     
  9. Robert Snow

    Robert Snow New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    4,466
    Likes Received:
    3
    Was there more than one?
     
  10. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,375
    Likes Received:
    1,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Taken from a conversation @ the Ligonier Conference with Sinclair Ferguson, Ligon Duncon , Steve Lawson & Al Mohler.

    Q: What was Calvin’s role with servetus?

    Duncan: Servetus was a heretic in view of everyone, including Lutherans. He was anti-trinitarian. In any city, in that day, there were “heresy laws”. The State Churches has certain expectations of what was theologically correct. Servetus was warned by both Calvin and the City of Geneva not to come back to Geneva. He did come back, and Servetus was tried and convicted to be burned at the stake. Calvin argued for a “faster” punishment of beheading .

    Mohler: At that time, the State viewed “heresy” as “treason” against the regime. The problem here is that the State . This is why Calvin argued for the separation of the Church from the State. Servetus was a liar, a poser, and a fraud. Had he been in Rome, Florence or Seville, he would have also been executed. Mohler argues, however, that heresy is a greater problem than treason, and the Church should handle the matter of heresy – not the State, and Calvin argued for this as well.

    Lawson: Calvin did not prosecute or put Servetus to death. Calvin himself was not favored by the State, but was an expert witness used to prove that Servetus was, in fact, a heretic. The death of Servetus was inevitable.
     
    #90 Earth Wind and Fire, Feb 20, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2011
  11. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,375
    Likes Received:
    1,568
    Faith:
    Baptist


    Rippon...... are you turning into a Robot? :wavey::laugh:
     
    #91 Earth Wind and Fire, Feb 20, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2011
  12. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,914
    Likes Received:
    706
    I was a free-willer all my life until just more recently. It took reading Scripture through for me to begin to say "Wait a minute. Am I so bold as to think I can control God??" I realized there was nothing in me to warrant salvation and that it was God who called me and made me one who could respond to Him. The more and more I read the Bible, the more and more I see the truth of the doctrine of grace.

    Oh - and I've never read Calvin.
     
  13. Robert Snow

    Robert Snow New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    4,466
    Likes Received:
    3
    I doubt this is the truth. You were influenced by other than reading the scripture. No one would read the bible and come up with Calvinism.
     
  14. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,977
    Likes Received:
    2
    Get your facts straight. I grew up in a very conservative Presbyterian church (PCA) which was in another post. There is not a liberal bone in my body. No doubt your definition of conservative and morality is the Republican Party. We were told by a moderator not to talk about Calvin the man, so why don't you stop? If you want to discuss this advocate for sprinking, the Holy Catholic Church, taking human life and a lust for power, start a new thread.

    I made my position quite clear at the start of this thread. The Bible teaches all five points. Read before you post, or better yet, read and understand.
     
  15. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    233
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Obviously you know better than Ann herself. Sure...because you consider yourself sovereign?

    Your statement is ridiculous absurdity of a kind that is usually seen in the world among political partisans who cannot bring themselves to be cordial in any way to someone who holds a different opinion...probably because they are so insecure (not in their opinion, but in and of themselves) that they think honest disagreement is an attack.

    You have accused a sister in Christ of being a liar--and intentionally misleading through her own testimony. You owe her an apology.

    The Archangel
     
  16. glfredrick

    glfredrick New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2010
    Messages:
    4,996
    Likes Received:
    2
    Thanks for proving my point... You really do need to actually read some church history and set aside those poisonous web sites that you use to get your information. Falshoods are not of God.
     
  17. Robert Snow

    Robert Snow New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    4,466
    Likes Received:
    3
    What did you accuse Saturneptune of doing:

    I believe there is more to her story than what she posted. I don't think anyone can derive Calvinism from reading the scripture alone because the doctrine is not there. It takes a bit of coaching or twisting of the bible verses to make Calvinism appear. Simple reading alone shows God extends His grace to all who will freely accept it.

    You can get off your high horse now before you get a nose bleed.
     
  18. glfredrick

    glfredrick New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2010
    Messages:
    4,996
    Likes Received:
    2
    You are now accusing brothers and sisters in the Lord of lying...

    MODERATORS can we reign in this man?
     
  19. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    11,850
    Likes Received:
    1,084
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The name calling continues and the thread is off track.

    So it is closed, with apologies to the originator.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...