The Closed Theism of Calvinism

Van,if you start using language like "the monster God of Calvinism" --you are going nowhere. It just displays your immaturity.

 

AMEN!!!!

In God's eyes yes, our eyes no.

God is not the author of sin. Predestining or preordaining an event doesn't mean that god is the author of that event(sin). Man is the author of his sin. God preordained that He would allow that event to happen.

Not true. Ordination has two parts. The first is God decreeing something in the sense we usually use the term. (Creation...) There are other things that have been ordained to happen by God allowing them to happen (murder). Obviously, God could have stopped the murder from happening if he wanted to.

Who are you to question almighty God? God could do this if He wanted to and would be perfectly right to do so. It's HIS world, not ours. It's ALL about Him, not us!

 

Well, Van is clearly espousing an unorthodox position here.

 

It's not just the God of the Calvinists that believe that God does indeed have a perfect knowledge of everything. It's the God of the Bible. (btw, I am not a Calvinist).

 

Correct. I think it's time for the picture again.

 

Don't ALL Christians though, unless you are denying The Truth That God has absolute knowledge of all things, hold that God has perfect foreknowledge?

IF you are of the "free will"Armenism camp, don't you hold God same way as Calvinists in this area?

God IS all knowing?

Are you saying that we all believe God caused Evil and Sin to happen directly?

God knowing extends that he knows exhaustively all things...
He can see every possible outcome in any given decision, and he can chose to directly interevene and cause things to go a specific way, or can allow it to pass, but knows what will be decided...

So God remains in absolute control, knows all things, directly control as he choses to fulfill His divine Will and Plans, and allows things to happen...

Think we are saying at no time is God not Sovernign,as He CAN chose to directly intervene at any time, can bring to pass His will, and choses to allow what he deems fit...

And IF God DID determine All things directly...

Who are we to tell the Creator what he can and cant do?

 

Jbh—you often have very humorous & clever add ons in your posts (I’ve seen at least 2 in past few days)---I personally appreciate the comic relief in this otherwise gang war we Baptist seem to be having against each other about soteriology!

 

oh, I guess I had read your OP. So what is it about Calvinism that you want to discuss. I didn't see anything in the OP about it.

I believe I answered this in my first post on this thread.

 

As one who doesnt embrace the Reformed position, I must say the OP is a fairly convoluted theological construction. Closed theism isnt the opposite of Open Theism. Also just because Reformed thought doesnt (rightly) condone the error of Open Theism doesnt mean it suddenly becomes "Closed."

Brother Van, while I appreciate your credulity and fervor in posting perhaps we can collaborate and find a way to properlu focus your theological efforts. I say this as a friend and pastor-teacher.

 

Did you not read my post?

 

From the Westminster Confession of Faith:

The first two points represent the mainstream of reformed thought on this point.

 

You would do well to study basic logic before you go on such blasphemous rants.

Foreknowledge does not equal causation. You have not established otherwise.

 

God does not directly cause all things. The WCF does not claim that he does. Foreordination includes the acts of the wills of moral agents; it doesn't mean direct causation in every instance.

 

Van-I’m not a full-blooded Calvinist—so I can’t speak for my reformed brothers—but I think (despite your misconstruction of their system) jbh & Stefan did a good job answering & I’d be concerned if I were you--- if glf, Luke, or many of the other highly intelligent Calvinist read your faulty accusations! It will not be a pretty sight!