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Faith Received

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by preacher4truth, Jun 20, 2011.

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Faith Received

  1. I believe Gods Word that He granted My Faith.

    7 vote(s)
    53.8%

  2. I had my own faith, God didn't give it to me.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  3. I have received everything from God, including salvation, but had my own faith.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  4. God does not get the glory for giving me faith. I owned it inherently.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  5. God not only granted me faith, He also granted me repentance, and salvation.

    8 vote(s)
    61.5%

  6. I repented and believed by my own power (faith) within myself, God did not give it me.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  7. I praise God that He alone Granted All of it, and None of it was on my own.

    8 vote(s)
    61.5%

  8. It disturbs me that God grants faith to whom He Wills.

    1 vote(s)
    7.7%

  9. God knows best and knows to whom He should grant these things.

    3 vote(s)
    23.1%

  10. I simply trust God in this and in His Granting to Whom He wills to Do So

    4 vote(s)
    30.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    2 Peter 1:1; Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:

    Clearly here, faith is referred to as something we have received. What do any of us have that we did not receive?

    Romans 12:3 For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.

    Yet another passage proclaiming God as the One who has granted to believers their faith.

    Php 1:29 For to you it has been granted for Christ's sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,

    Yet another passage declaring faith, or belief in Christ as a gift that God Himself has given to believers, or more specifically, His elect.

    Arminians. Semi-Pelagians. Pelagians. Those that deny they are such, yet are. Anti-Calvinists. These groups attack this tenet in Scriptures that declare God has even granted to us the very faith that we do have. They demand their rights in this, and declare they had their own faith.

    I’ve provided Scriptures proving faith a gift. Many of you argue that it is not the case. And you have nothing in Gods Word to back it up.

    Show me one verse or passage of Scriptures that prove you exercised a faith that you inherently had within yourself, and did so out of some free will also that you had in yourself, given to you by yourself. And then explain how you gave this gift to yourself before birth.

    Now, it is established it is a gift from God. Sovereignly He grants it. The Scriptures back it up.

    Now, let’s say you did inherently have this faith within yourself, where then did it come from? You? Think of how absurd that is, like you’ve created anything, as if you have anything that you have not received from God. If you are arguing against this what exactly do you possess that you did not receive from God? We brought how much into this world, 1 Timothy 6:7? Did you also grant to yourself your physical attributes? The number of hairs upon your head? What exactly did you give to yourself? To even declare you have given one thing to yourself, you are declaring yourself to be God. Did you create yourself? This of course is to play on the false hypothesis that somehow you just happened to have gifted yourself with “faith” and then exercised it and saved yourself to. This versus being saved by His grace.

    I’ve provided Scripture showing faith to believe is given from God Himself. It’s not from you.

    Why is this decried by the above who disdain God’s Sovereign will (and even if you deny you decry His Sovereignty, you still do)? Do you claim God unfair (unjust) because He solely grants faith? Why didn’t He grant this to every single person? Obviously He claims in His Word that He Himself grants faith. He also chooses to make certain are reserved unto punishment.

    I declare that anyone saying they had, possessed, their own faith, that they are saying that they granted this to themselves, and are claiming to be their own Sovereign against God’s Word and reject the truth of Scripture that He Himself alone grants faith.

    No need for your logic, just proof from God’s Word that you had your own faith, inherently, given to you, by you, that it was definitely not a gift from God, but wholly from you, granted by you to you that helped save your soul. This is what you have argued against, that it is not a gift, now prove it.
     
    #1 preacher4truth, Jun 20, 2011
  2. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    I'm sorry brother, but this is just blatantly false information. You can read Arminius' actual teaching on the subject of faith HERE.

    I'm a non-Calvinist and have stated on this board numerous times that faith comes from God. We just disagree as to the effectuality of the method/means it is given.

    You may be debating a straw-man brother?
     
    #2 Skandelon, Jun 20, 2011
  3. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Show me in the Bible where God gives faith to the unsaved. He does not.
    Look at the verse you posted.

    Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: (2 Peter 1:1)
    --The obtained like precious faith through the righteousness of God...
    Peter is speaking to believers. Faith is given only to believers.
    Spiritual gifts are only given to believers; not to the unregenerate.
    What is the context?
    Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; (Romans 12:6)
    --Gifts, spiritual gifts that are given to the members of the body of Christ:

    For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. (Romans 12:4-5)
    --The gift of faith is given to the saved, not the unsaved; God does not give faith to the unregenerate.
    I never denied this. You don't read carefully. God does not give spiritual gifts as faith to the unsaved. One must put their own faith in Christ, not God's faith in God.
    That is right; it is given to believers, not unbelievers.
    You are very confused. You should study on this matter before you post.
    God does not give the unregenerate spiritual gifts; plain and simple.
    You have not provided one Scripture that says anything contrary to what I believe; so what is your problem?
    I have already given you dozens in another thread. You never answered them then. Why would I expect you to answer them now? The Bible clearly teaches that salvation is by faith alone.
    Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God (Rom.5:1)
    Where does the Scripture back up that God gives the unregenerate faith. Scripture please!!!
    Where does an infant get faith from? The faith to trust his parents rather than a stranger? Please answer. For Jesus said unless you have faith as a little child you cannot enter into the Kingdom of heaven.
    The difference between man and animals is that man is made in God's own image and likeness. He created him with a will to choose between good and evil; to choose whether to reject Christ or receive him. That is how God created us. In his sovereignty he gave us the free will to choose. I gave myself nothing. God gave me everything I am. Adam gave me a depraved nature, as he did you. That is the source of your personal attacks. It is also the source of your arrogance and obstinacy to study these things out before posting on them.
    You haven't provided even one verse of Scripture.

    God does not grant faith to the unregenerate. You have not shown that to anyone.
    Where does it say that in the Bible. You need to study it before commenting on it.
    Go and study your Bible. You obviously don't know what you are talking about.
    I have given you enough to answer for tonight. Answer the post. Study your Bible first. See how well you can do this time.
     
    #3 DHK, Jun 20, 2011
  4. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Spare me. My information is not blatantly false and was not meant nor intended to exhaustively treat all that Arminianism falsely teaches. Nice try, but you're just bowing out and that is your out excuse.
     
    #4 preacher4truth, Jun 20, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 20, 2011
  5. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    More personal attacks, condescension, misunderstanding of Scripture, inablility to interpret Scripture, and drivel from DHK. How rare. :wavey:

    So chalk it up to DHK that he generated his own faith, then used it to believe, and did not receive it from God. :thumbsup:

    So God granted them ability to believe in Him after they believed in Him? Uh. Not even close.

    Yes, believers gave themselves their own ability to believe, and transcended God.
     
    #5 preacher4truth, Jun 20, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 20, 2011
  6. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    It is because of God's grace that salvation is offered to mankind. It is also God that grants all men the ability to have faith, yet He leaves that "choice" in the hands of each to exercise that faith and believe. It really is simple, without enough moral freedom granted to mankind to choose, then it really is in all ways a determined system (which God has every right) to have. But I do not see the God of scriptures revealed in that way. Just my thoughts.
     
    #6 quantumfaith, Jun 20, 2011
  7. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    ...and no Scripture.

    So you gave yourself your own faith?

    Or, you were born with it inherently, and if so, who gave it to you then? You?

    1 Timothy 6:7

    Scripture?

    God gets the glory.
     
    #7 preacher4truth, Jun 20, 2011
  8. jbh28

    jbh28 Active Member

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    I Peter 3:15 "but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,"

    Just thought I would share a verse.
     
    #8 jbh28, Jun 20, 2011
  9. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    I do wished some would understand that and take it to heart, rather than delighting in casting dispersions.
     
    #9 quantumfaith, Jun 20, 2011
  10. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Why not answer the questions proposed, instead of assuming the person asking them is not being gentle, and give the benefit of the doubt?

    jbh28 has been on other threads trolling to get off subject and track, and besides, his proof text doesn't apply here, it's for witnessing to unbelievers and those outside.

    So let's stay Scriptural here.

    I ask again. You saw them. Please answer.

    Thank you.
     
    #10 preacher4truth, Jun 20, 2011
  11. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    This mentality of "throwing" scripture at one another, like hurling bumper stickers simply maintains the differences in how we "look" at and interpret various scripture. I quote 3 Hezekiah 81:6, you tell me how I have it all wrong. etc.

    I simply gave you my conviction of where I stand on the "issue", take it or leave it.
     
    #11 quantumfaith, Jun 20, 2011
  12. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    I'll take it bro. You have no Scripture on it. That's not an attack. It's just the facts. You have no proof other than you yourself.

    And that is not eternal.

    I have not only a conviction on it, but have Scriptures also. Thus, I have asked for others to provide Scriptures on it. We all say it (Gods Word) is the final authority, and concur that our convictions (finite reason) are not authoritative when dealing with eternal matters.

    I raise these questions and make these statements in the OP for our benefit, not to slam others, but to cause us to think, which we like to do.

    Yes, I defended myself that my OP was not "blatantly false" and it is not. That's just a personal attack. Neither was the OP intended to represent every degree of every Arminian. That's impossible. But for a large percentage, most Arminians, and likewise, don't believe God gave them faith. This is the crowd I am addressing in the OP, those that don't believe God gave them faith.

    I believe God gave us faith. It says so in His Word. And although I do not understand all the whys as to why He does as He wills, I still trust Him, Psalm 62:8.
     
    #12 preacher4truth, Jun 20, 2011
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  13. jbh28

    jbh28 Active Member

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    I've never trolled a thread. I've never purposefully tried to get a thread off subject. Maybe you should learn from what the text said. Your prideful spirit is shameful. I'm not worried about you making a false claim about me trolling as I have a track record. Your track record...well, it could be improved. This entire thread started with a mean spirit. You need to take a break. I was only trying to give some friendly advice. It's obvious by your reply and PM that you needed it.

    As for the question, I believe faith and repentance are gifts of God.
     
    #13 jbh28, Jun 20, 2011
  14. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    There was no personal attack but this is.

    There also was no response to the post, except for a personal attack. That's sad.
     
    #14 DHK, Jun 20, 2011
  15. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    But you send me a pm saying that was not for me, but then publicly say it is? Attaboy! :thumbsup:

    Lie much? Looks to me you're the one who needs to cool his jets and simmer down.

    This thread didn't start with a mean spirit, unless you are referring to anything after the OP. As a matter of fact, a family member and myself discussed this entire thing before it was posted. You don't know me. Nothing in me started this with a mean spirit. Stop your personal attacks and false assumptions and be like Jesus.

    But here you are again, getting the OP off track. :rolleyes:

    Should I supply the PM proving you said your remark was not for me, which you now say is?

    Let's keep this on track.

    You're trolling now, just as with askjo. Drive by epidemic from you.
     
    #15 preacher4truth, Jun 20, 2011
  16. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    All abilities we have are God given, no one disputes this.

    I believe all men have the ability to believe or trust. Does this mean man can believe in Jesus without God's grace? Absolutely not!

    In Romans 10 Paul explains exactly "how" faith comes.

    Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

    What does Paul imply is necessary for man to believe here? Regeneration? NO. He asks how a man can believe in Jesus unless he has heard of him.

    Then in verse 17 he plainly states that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

    Let me ask you, how did you hear of Jesus? Did you invent Jesus in your mind or receive revelation of him by your own spiritual ability?

    I don't know about you, but I learned of Jesus by hearing him preached in church, and reading about him in the Bible, just as Paul shows.

    Man has the ability to believe, but no man can believe what he does not know. It is only God's grace in revealing Jesus to us through his prophets, written word, and preachers that we are ENABLED to believe, an option you did not provide in your poll.
     
    #16 Winman, Jun 20, 2011
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  17. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Oh, really?

    Then what was that?


    Yep, it's sad you have double standards. And mocked God's Grace in another thread. Attaboy mod! :thumbsup:

    Please answer the OP. You either had your own faith, or God gave it to you. Prove by Scripture your position, or bow out if you cannot.
     
    #17 preacher4truth, Jun 20, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 20, 2011
  18. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    You're right, the "FAITH CAME BY HEARING, (not from me) and HEARING BY THE WORD OF CHRIST." Romans 10:17. Thus it (faith) came solely from Him.

    However you came to this "did I invent Jesus part" is illogical, not in context of the discussion, and nothing I've said ever came close to even suggesting it. But, OK. I'll look past that.
     
    #18 preacher4truth, Jun 20, 2011
  19. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Yes, I stand by my word.
    It was good advice. Go and study your Bible more. It would be helpful if you did that before you posted. That is not a personal attack.
    To say that I mocked God's grace is a false allegation and utter nonsense. If you keep on repeating such I will put it in the hands of another moderator. I advise you to read the rules posted at the bottom of each page.
     
    #19 DHK, Jun 20, 2011
  20. jbh28

    jbh28 Active Member

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    please quote the phrase where I said I quoted the verse for you.
    I only quoted a verse. you could have just read the verse and not whined about it. you are the one that started sending me pm's complaining about it.
    Well, it was a "private" message. But there is no need for it. I said it without quoting your name. It was just a verse. I was trying not to call too much attention to you personally, but you made that the case.
    of course my track record says otherwise. Anyway, my last response to you about it.
     
    #20 jbh28, Jun 20, 2011
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