Billy Graham Answers

You said that this was in a newspaper article. As such, the length was dictated by the editors of the newspaper, not by Mr. Graham or Scripture. I think he got the main point across in the space allotted to him.

 

The question is, does Billy Graham still believe what he wrote in "My Answer."

All over the internet is an interview he did with Robert Schuller in which he seems to deny the exclusivity of Christ in salvation.

 

I think his response was just fine, particularly concise, articulate and clear for the non-theologian masses.

 

I would like to know that too. Was that written before or after this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axxlXy6bLH0

 

Sometimes when people get older they lose some of their faculties.
At least he preached repentance. He has been often criticized for his altar calls,and telling people to go back to whatever church they were in..but His ethics were good...no scandals

 

Personally, I think people preach this due to the fact they just do not understand Sovereignty, and Election. They wonder what happens to that poor innocent tribesman in some jungle somewhere. Don't worry, there is no such thing as a poor innocent tribesman somewhere or anywhere because there is none innocent, all are guilty before God, so if this person dies and goes to hell it is because he rejects the general revelation/knowledge concerning God and is a sinner. To punish any person outside of Christ is just. All the world is accountable, or guilty; Rom 3:19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;

People have a problem with this and call God unfair for sending guilty sinners into eternity for this. Well, God is not "unfair" or "unjust." The punishment of all lost is a just punishment. Part of believing it isn't fair is an over-emphasis and false premise that somehow we are good and that for this we have a right somehow to God. This is a fallacy and is not Scriptural.

God is just in punishing those outside of Christ, and the Justifier in saving those in Christ:

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
Rom 3:25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;
Rom 3:26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

This explains how He stands as Just on both sides, punishing sinners, and Justifying those whom He has elected before the foundation of the world.

To be able to explain why some hear and some haven't is difficult to explain, maybe impossible. If anyone here can elaborate on that, go for it. But God is not sending these to hell because they haven't heard of Jesus, nor is He punishing them for not receiving Christ for Whom they have not heard, they are already guilty and lost at this point in time whether they have heard or not.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
Rom 1:19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
Rom 1:21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

Why God elects some and some remain in this state is hard to understand and to explain. 2Pe_2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: And let His do this: 2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Everyone who names the name of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness."

No one goes to hell for rejecting Jesus Christ as Savior. This statement I have heard for years, but it is not well thought out and is not purely Scriptural. Instead of this, all are guilty and condemned to hell before ever hearing this Gospel message. So also is that poor innocent tribesman guilty(that doesn't exist) because all are. We need to understand this, people aren't going to hell for rejecting, they are just plainly and simply going to hell and the answer to this is the Gospel being preached and the elect coming forward through this preaching.

People also struggle with this because they see "such nice people." We have two "nice men" who live across the street as Sodomites. Nice gets you nothing, and that poor tribesman will spend eternity in hell with all who leave this world in their sins, "nice" or not. There may be a such thing as "nice" but there is not a such thing as "good" because all are guilty. Let's not paint mankind any other way but in their lost biblical state, guilty, condemned, under wrath, at enmity with God, with wicked works.

- Grace and Peace to all His

 

How about this: Ephesians 4:11

It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers.

 

In Grace and Peace,

Perhaps some do in fact understand God's Grace and Sovereignty differently from the pages of scripture. Perhaps they are not simply crying "not fair" or "not just" but they actually do see and understand one of God's attributes of Justice differently. I do not think anyone around here attempts to excuse themselves of God's judgement or justice on the basis of being a "nice person". Perhaps these people (myself included) actually do read the totality of God's Word and revelation to mankind genuinely different from your own reading and understanding.

People go to hell for two reasons, first the sin and separation from God, and second for rejection of Christ as the only means of salvation.

 

Well, they are already on their way to hell prior to "rejecting" Christ as Savior, so it cannot be "for" rejecting Him. It's not for that. They simply did not allow the Gospel to stop them, by believing. So it cannot be "for" this/

Who are you claiming that know Gods Sovereignty "differently from the pages of Scriptures?" Please explain this. It sounds like extra-biblical revelation in your wording, in other words, "in spite of what some see about the truth of God in Scripture, we see it like this..." I believe in Sola Scriptura.

Understand I am not putting words in your mouth above, just describing how you seem to come across here, how I understand/see what you are saying.

What exact "attribute" of Gods Justice are "they" seeing different? Can you name this attribute of His Justice that they see differently?

Brother, can you use Scripture? This is not to nit-pick, but out of honesty, I rarely see you use Scriptures in any arguments you raise. I hope you see this from Christian love. We debate, let's back it up with His Word. I hope you can say to answering with Scripture "gladly." I think that should be our attitude.

To believe that some believers aren't calling God unfair or unjust in this is just plain not the case. It happens.

- Peace

 

No I am not going to callously throw around once again scripture so that each of can claim that "we have a better understanding" of it. I often see (percieve) in your (and others) that those who disagree with the DoG implications that "we" just do not believe God is Sovereign going even further with the charge that "we" believe that "we" are in charge. Not going to go down this whole road again, it has been traveled extensively. And so I bow out of this one. Not of fear, but out of weariness of conflict with other believers.

 

Well certainly no one would want you to callously use God's Word at anytime.

Not a problem.

Are you though claiming to hold some view of it (God’s Grace and Sovereignty and Justice) that is extra-biblical, not found nor supported in His Word then when you state: “Perhaps some do in fact understand God's Grace and Sovereignty differently from the pages of scripture.”

In grace, I think a portion of this bowing out is because this cannot be validated in the Word of God.

Many see how claiming any truth outside of Biblical revelation as dangerous. This is why I am Sola Scriptura. To teach that His Justice has an element not revealed in His Word is to make other avenues (thought in this case) an authority on eternal issues.

I know these things are hard to deal with, but all of these are guilty now.

Do you see then how man is not going to hell "for" rejecting Christ?

- Peace

 

P4T, whether intentionally or not, you constantly misrepresent non-Cal/Arm views. As a non-Cal, I believe God is perfectly just.

It is your Ref/Cal VIEW that I believe MISREPRESENTS God as revealed in the scriptures and makes God to APPEAR unjust.

No one for one second is denying that all men are sinners and worthy of God's punishment, but you often misrepresent non-Cals of teaching we believe a person can be saved by their own works. This is absolutely false. I think you know this and do not understand why you constantly misrepresent what I and others are truly saying.

It is your VIEW that makes God to APPEAR unfair to others. If God only elects to save some men and passes by others, he is showing favor to only some (the very definition of grace). To be fair to all men, and if only God determines who is saved and lost, then God should either damn all men, or save all men, for all men are equally guilty.

This is not what scriptures teach, they teach that Jesus died for all sinners, and that God freely offers pardon to all sinners if they will submit to God's righteousness and trust in Jesus alone.

The scriptures do not make God to appear unfair or unjust, YOUR VIEW does.

 

Show me where I claimed any of this as arminian. I didn't. That's your assumption. So let's not go down your accusatory road of unfounded statements. That's your first error.

Neither have I claimed anyone denying man a sinner. Yet another accusatory avenue of unfounded statements. This is your second error.

When I say something, and want to say something, I'd come right out and say it plainly and name names. No need to add to my statements, or make some intangible argument out of something I've never said. You go on like you're rebutting something actually said, but you're rebutting things you've made up.

My view doesn't make God appear unjust. Perhaps you not facing all these things said is unfortunate. Nothing I've presented is untrue, and as I said it is hard to understand these things.

By the way, this "unjust" accusation has been argued and attributed to God long before I came along, especially from unbelievers. Oprah even argues this point today.

Stick to what is said, not what you want me to say so you can argue. It gets ridiculous, you consistently do this. Then when you draw a conclusion upon unsaid statements, you pretend you've just defeated it. You're only arguing with yourself, Winman.

You really need to quit saying I've said things that I have not said, or quoting me then saying "what you are saying." Put an end to it, it's not necessary. If I wanted to say what you've attributed to me, I would state it outright and plainly. Hint, this means I don't believe what you say I believe.

:wavey:

 

You are correct, people have been saying Calvinism misrepresents God as being unfair and unjust for hundreds of years. They can say this because it is true.

An analogy:

You have a swimming pool with a tall fence around it with signs posted "No Trespassing". Four boys climb the fence and jump in, the problem being none can swim well and all begin to drown. You come upon the scene and see all four boys drowning. You extend a long pole to one, he grabs it and you pull him out. But the other three you do not offer to help and callously watch as they all drown.

Now, all four boys were guilty of trespassing and brought their own calamity upon themselves. But are you equally (justly) loving and merciful to all four boys? I don't think so, I think you would be guilty of gross neglect in allowing the three boys to drown when you could have at least attempted to help them.

The whole world recognizes this, and in any civilized country you would be charged with negligent homocide.

But this is exactly what your doctrine teaches. It teaches that God callously allows men to perish when it is in his ability to save them.

This is not what the scriptures say. The scriptures say God loves all men and is not willing that any should perish. Calvinism does not simply deny this, but must go to great extremes and mental gymnastics to explain away scripture that says God wants all men to be saved.

That's why people have been accusing Calvinism of misrepresenting God as being unjust for hundreds of years, and will always do so.

 

Yes I agree and it is a good reason to retire at some point less they confuse what they once taught. A good reminder to us all. :thumbs:

 

Winman,

I will attempt one last time to have debate with you. If you desire to turn my words to something I am not saying, then that's your problem, not mine, and there will be no need for us to have dialogue from this point further. This is what you do consistently, and I am graciously requesting you refrain from this.

Let's stick to what I actually address here without saying this is an attack upon some theological camp, and without saying I am telling others they don't believe man to be sinful. Put an end to this.

Stick to the topic and what is actually said, Winman, or bow out.

You say I make God appear unjust. I reject that comment, as also unfounded.

Let's stick to what I present, without turning it into a cal/arm rabbit trail, OK?

Here is what I present: Those who have not heard will die in their sins. This is a tangible reality that is taking place, as some have never heard, and in that, God is just to punish them as sinners and guilty.

Is it unjust for them to be eternally punished Winman? Yes, or no?


Now:

We have 1) one who has heard, and doesn't believe, and we have 2) one who has never heard. Obviously both die in their sins, because they are guilty, both of them. This is according to Scripture.

Now, where do each of these spend eternity, having died in their sins?

No need to make it that I make God appear unjust. I think yuo just can't handle facing this. Face the reality and answer the questions without turning contentious on me.

If you can't handle facing this and directly answering my questions, then simply bow out.

I'll await direct answers to direct questions. Any deviation from this, and further accusations will be ignored and not addressed.

- Peace

 

While I agree, what I call hyper cal., is incorrect, I think that the analogy you posed is also incorrect. I realize that no analogy is perfect and can be broken down, but this one leaves out a vital point. In the scenario only one gets the opportunity to express his volition. If the other three were offered the pole and decided not to trust the one offering the pole and decided to do it their way and drowned then it would better represent what I think is accurate.

 

That is Arminian doctrine. If God sincerely extended the pole in a real and genuine effort to save them, but they refused, that is Arminian doctrine.

However, if God did not extend the pole, or let's say only extended it half way (general calling versus effectual calling) to the boys, well out of their reach, then the boy's volition really doesn't come into play does it? You can't refuse something not truly offered and that you were not truly able to accept can you? This is Calvinist doctrine.

If you only extended the pole half way to the boys, well out of their reach, not only would it be an insincere effort to save them, it would actually be a cruel mocking and torture as they drowned.

 

The command is to preach the message to all. That menas the call is to all as the preaching does not change. Each has the ability to reject or accept. That is volition.