Allowing Calvinism to block support

I am not an expert on calvinism, but it doesn't sound like a Calvinist to me. I've never known a calvinist who would not have ascribed to people in hell the knowledge of why they're there. On the other hand, they are quite strong about the fallen nature of man and his responsibility for his end.

I may be mistaken, but a Calvinist would say that the same God who unconditionally elected a person to heaven would also have established the means by which that person would be saved.

I think it sounds like he heard it some where, thought it sounded good and started using it.

 

No...it does not sound like something most Calvinists would say, or write.
Calvinists know and understand that Jesus saves everyone of the lost sheep.
If a person fails to present the gospel to one of God's elect.....God will have another servant minister to that person at another time.
However most calvinists I know are very aggresive to obey the command to preach the gospel to all men.
God 100% guarentees that each person for whom our Lord died...will be savingly drawn to Christ.;

Still learning .....read some solid calvinistic men before you make up your mind based on mis-represented positions and caricatures of the truth.

http://www.founders.org/library/dagg_vol1/all.html

http://www.banneroftruth.org/pages/home.php

http://homepage.mac.com/shanerosenthal/reformationink/classic.htm

If you have any specific questions about it ...I will help if possible.

 

Still

I must drive more now...but will try and post something that will be good food for thought on this later on tonight......

It is not that the unsaved have "no knowledge" of God.
It is that they are truth suppressors....they hold down, twist, and pervert the true knowledge ...that can only be savingly understood by divine illumination.

I will post more later on....:type: I think I came across something that will be helpful to you.

 

Your minister friend appears to be resorting to manipulating you or shaming you into supporting his ministry to the deaf. I'm wondering why somebody in your church didn't challenge him on his statement.

 

Because, unfortunately, this is a "tried and true" tactic. Being IFB myself, and having been a member of 7 different IFB churches, this is not the first time I've heard of such a maneuver.

I've been teaching my kids to pay attention to what they hear a pastor say; for example, they attended a youth retreat where a young man talked about the strict requirements for the guards for the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier; never mind that it took me 3 minutes to look up those requirements, and find out that it's a load of baloney. My goal is not to have my children question their church leadership; it's to get them to compare everything against scripture, search out the truth for themselves, and ensure that what they're hearing and being exposed to is backed by the Word.

 

So who does?

 

Nothing in what that missionary said was Calvinistic. I believe he simply was saying they aren't being reached, and his heart was to reach them. I think you and your church are incorrect in your judgment altogether. There may be some Calvinist missionaries you are supporting and you may not be aware of it. We support missionaries who preach the Gospel, whether or not they are Calvinistic in belief.

 

You saying your decision not to support him due to Calvinism betrays your thread title. It is also betrayed by your OP. This is true even though you try to veil it with "(on the surface)" as up above.

I saw nothing manipulative, but perhaps a burden to reach the lost.

Calvinism isn't foolishly following a man, as I and others embrace DoG who have not employed works of Calvin or others to come to these conclusions concerning these truths. Also to those who do study, or have studied reformed theologians, and have concluded the teachings correct, this study does not make them followers of men at all. Simply God has shown some of us these truths in Scriptures first hand, some of us found them out through looking at a reformed theologians works, and through this some have embraced the truth contained therein. Jonathan Edwards himself would be one who struggled with the teachings, and specifically with Sovereignty and then embraced them fully himself. For you to call this, and those who believe these things foolishness is unwarranted and uncalled for brother.

Also there is no need to say that what one believes about freewill keeps one from meaningful ministry, and that if they are Calvinist it "limits" them, fair enough? No need for the personals innuendoes from you here.

My belief that man doesn't have a freewill doesn't prevent ministering in a meaningful way. What motivates me is that the elect are out there and that they will be brought into the fold through the preaching of the Gospel. So as a matter of fact, contrary to your deficient understanding and false assumptions, others and also my acceptance of the DoG/Calvinism/Reformed theology has rather enhanced our ministering and preaching of the Word of God.

 

No problem. Actually, belief in election, being chosen, bondage of the will, other DoG's are serving a purpose opposite of anti-evangelism. The false notion of being ant-evangelistic is rampant enough, and comes along with the term "hyper-calvinism" being incorrectly applied to all persons who accept Reformed theology.

Read 2 Timothy 2:8-10, and take notice for whom in wording exactly (v. 10) Paul suffered and preached the Gospel, to see this specific group come to Christ. Note also how many times Paul refers to his recipients as elect, as also Peter, others.

 

Calvinists also believe that God is pleased to save through the foolishness of preaching.

And Jesus clearly taught that "my sheep hear my voice."

 

Interesting quote and quite believable as being Calvinistic. I say that because I attended a Calvinistic Baptist church for a while and I remember the pastor saying, "There are elected people in foreign countries that haven't heard the gospel yet and we've got to reach them for Christ."

 

Which would make the pastors statement true, none saved are non-elect. His statement also has support within 2 Timothy 2:8-10, and shows this is exactly how the apostle Paul felt, and in essence is the same thing this pastor you've alluded to allegedly said. It amazes me to this day people have problems with this Biblical truth.

What the missionary said at SL's church had nothing to do with Calvinism whatsoever. You attempt to make his statement as Calvinistic by your "because I attended a Calvinistic Baptist church for a while and remember the pastor saying?" Whatever this pastor said doesn't retro back and make the missionary at SL's church Calvinist, as there is absolutely no connection whatsoever between the two.

 

The statement in the OP is not calvinistic in any way whatsoever, but it is thoroughly manipulative and unsupportable in any theological system.

 

Quote:

I see nothing Calvinistic about the statement. It is as non-Cal as you can get.

Your pastor's statement is not an explicitly Calvinist statement. The statement is true, however.