Do you think Pharaoh being hardened is a foreshadowing of Israel?

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The thing here is the Jesus claimed that the Jews who refused to accept him as messiah were childreren of Devil...

NOT a special hardening case, all except those whom God drew to Christ would stay in same state, lost "as the Devil is"

So think cals can indded use Romans to show that God has chosen out of a reprobate Race a group of people unto His Name!

 

I'd say you're right on track, except that I'd modify it to say that the entire account of the exodus from Egypt (the land of bondage) is one huge type of the repemption of His people from apostate Judaism and the curse of the law.

[edit] I'd also say that Pharoah would be the personification of the first head of the seven headed beast of Revelation.

 

In Romans 1 Enhances Your Thoughts on Pharoh

Paul tells us in Romans 1:18-32, especially verse 26 (and several others) - that, "For this reason God gave them over and abandoned them to vile affections and degrading passions."

This turning over of mankind to their own thoughts, passions, lusts, self-love, etc., is the NT version of the hardening of the heart of Pharoh. However, instead of the leader of a nation paying the price, individuals will pay the price for rejecting God!!!

Great post....:thumbs:

Shalom,

Pastor Paul :type:

 

A few comments:

To me, it appears that you are trying to say that the Pharaoh types are either (in fact) of the elect or that there is no such thing as the elect. Hard to tell from a strict reading of your statement. Could you clear this matter up?

I will take the liberty of removing the double negative from the first part of your statement. It thus reads: So, those hardened (as spoken of in Romans 9) are reprobates. If this is a valid method on my part, I ask what of these reprobates?

I'm not a big fan of John Piper with respect to his popular works but to say that Calvinists are unwilling to deal with this doctrine tells me that you are unaware of Pipers work The Justification of God: an exegetical and theological study of Romans 9:1-23 (1993 Baker Academic). This is one of those works that every serious student of the Bible in general and Romans in particular should read (and enjoy).

 

You left out the part where you discuss how this effects the apostate Church and the curse of sin.

 

?????

What has this to do with the price of eggs in China?

[edited for offensive remark]

 

A fearful thing:

Falling into the the hands of The Living God. Jehovah showed Himself sovereign and omnipotent many times to Israel and Egypt, i.e. the elect and the lost. He has shown Himself omnipotent through His other sheep, not of the fold of Israel (probably not called latter day saints).

The Pharaoh thought himself to be God. Lucifer has a similar notion. Mankind is in there too--following the god of this world--including Humanism and a large portion of "Christendom". Jehovah has revealed Himself in many ways(not the religions of the world) in many generations--all of us are without excuse. Interesting: a lot of effort has been expended to prove the Exodus never happened--probably by the same group who believe Jesus never happened. Satan is alive and well on planet earth.

This thread speaks of hardening of the heart and making choices--and then kind of stumbles through the doctrines of election and predestination. Has anyone stumbled across Ephesians Ch. 1? Has anyone considered what "according to the good pleasure of His Will", vs. 5, means? See also vss. 9-11; the whole chapter speaks to these doctrines. See also Ch. 2.

We still have two kinds of humans: children of God and children of Satan.
Yet, God is still calling the lost sheep--Jesus is calling them out daily through the preaching of the Word--for His good purpose and pleasure. When the last one is called--then what?

Praise the Lord for His Sovereign Grace. We all deserve Hell.

Peace,

Bro. James

P.S. I am not a Calvinist.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------
No insinuation intended. Sorry, for apparently having offended.

It is a fact: the battle between Jon Chauvin and Jacob Arminius continues. There is a sizeable schism among "Baptist" ranks regarding how one chooses to accept Jesus as Savior. Some say we have a chance to make the right choice using our free will; others say we find the Grace of God irresistible by the conviction by The Holy Spirit bearing witness to the preaching of The Word; in as much as our free wills are enslaved to our sin nature in total depravity. We know not of ourselves how to make the correct choice. Eph. 2:8 makes a good case for this position.

The names of the children of God were written in the Lamb's Book of Life, before the foundation of the world. Jesus said He kept them all safe--except one. God calls them out according to His good purpose and pleasure--whether they are willing or not. Moses did not want to go--yet he was born to go. He went anyway; yet never made the promised land.

Paul was selected before he was born--long before he was called--kicking against the pricks. This is all the purpose, pleasure, and will of Jehovah. On the other side: yes, Sir, Pharoah and his army were born to perish in the Red Sea by the wrath of the True and Living God--a witness to the world and to His people.

The lost sheep are still being called to the fold--they hear His voice and follow Him; another they will not follow.

The goats are still goats--they will follow most anybody--usually themselves. We live in a world of narcissists.

This surely helps answer the question: Why do millions die, never having heard The Gospel?

Peace,

Bro. James

 

Ok.

But there are those who are considered (or consider themselves) Calvinistic who like myself who are dispensational but struggle with the concept of Limited Attonement and would not agree with our Covenant brethern who claim that God is finished with the Jews as a people. I have been accused of being a 5 pointer on this board, a label I'm uncomfortable with though I'm convinced that man is totally depraved.

 

I'm just trying to process your thinking. What do you mean by "sealed him in his disobedience?"

In your mind what does God's hardening look like, how does He do it? How do you think a Calvinist thinks God did it?

Back to my first question, how did God harden? Was it something God had to do within them or something God didn't do within them? If it is something He intentionally does in their hearts "so they won't believe" what are the implications? If it is something He does not do (IE leaves them in depravity?) what are the implications?



I realize I didn't hit the main point of your post and that is due to the need to spend time looking at Romans 9-11, its been awhile.

 

Think Apostle paul point here to not presume upon the Grace and mercy of God, as the covenant people of isreal still were lost due to being sinners who willfully rejected Chrsit as the messiah, while the gentiles who did NOT have a relationship with God did find mercy and favor by god granting them grace to believe in jewish messaih!

 

Answer: Lost

 

Lost sheep. Not goats, but sheep that are out of place (with no home or husband). Once they are brought into the kingdom they are 'saved'.

 

Could you explain the necessity of being a child of ________ before accepting Christ?