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Should we address prayer to the Holy Spirit?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by CF1, Oct 22, 2011.

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  1. CF1

    CF1 New Member

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    Should we address prayer to the Holy Spirit?

    The Lord Jesus did not pray to Himself, the Son. He only prayed to the Father. That only makes sense.

    Sometimes people in the new testament prayed to the Lord Jesus.

    The Holy Spirit gives us illumination, words and power to pray.

    Should we ask the Holy Spirit for what the Holy Spirit does?

    The Holy Spirit is equal with God the Father and Son as part of God?

    When we pray, should we address any of our words to the Holy Spirit?

    Wayne Grudem, in his book Systematic Theology, on the chapter on prayer says it does not "seem" wrong to pray to the Holy Spirit, although our primary prayers should be to the Father, or the Son. Nothing forbids us directly from praying to the Holy Spirit.

    Chafer says in his book Stematic Theology on the section on prayer, that we should pray TO the Father, through the name of the Mediator, the Son, in the Power of the Holy Spirit. Chafer says we should not address prayer to the Holy Spirit, because that is not the model to follow.

    What do others think?

    What about worshiping the Holy Spirit? Should we worship the Holy Spirit, or does the Holy Spirit exist to glorify the Father and/or the Son, and thus should not be worshiped?
     
    #1 CF1, Oct 22, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2011
  2. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    I don't see anything wrong with praying to the Holy Spirit since He is God. We pray in Jesus' name because He is our access to God through His blood & our faith in Him.
     
    #2 Amy.G, Oct 22, 2011
  3. joey

    joey Member

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    When the apostles asked how they should pray Jesus said "Our Father in heaven" (Matthew 6:9). He always directs people towards the Father.

    The Holy Spirit will assist us (John 16:7-14) but the Father will answer our prayers (John 16:23-24).
     
    #3 joey, Oct 22, 2011
  4. seekingthetruth

    seekingthetruth New Member

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    I have family that is charasmatic. They pray to Jesus. Of course lots of the Apostolistic Pentecostals, and Church of Christs believe that Jesus is God the Father in the flesh, (oneness theology)

    But as far as Baptists. and the teachings of the Bible, aren't we instructed to pray to the Father.

    Like Joey said, Jesus prayed to the Father, shouldn't we?

    And yes, the trinity is equal in authority, but does the seperate identities of the trinity have different roles?

    The Father? Creator of all?

    The Son? The creator of the Earth and our advocate to the Father?

    The Holy Spirit? The spirit of God that dwells within us?

    Jesus prayed to the Father, (and He was our Earthly example of Holiness) and the Holy Spirit helps us when we don't know what to pray for.....but the prayers still go to the Father.

    So, who should we pray to?

    I pray to the Father, but I also acknowledge that the only way I can speak to the Father is through Jesus, so I acknowledge Him also.

    I believe that the Holy Spirit is in us and speaks to us, but moves us according to the direction of the Father.

    John
     
    #4 seekingthetruth, Oct 22, 2011
  5. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter New Member

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    May I ask WHO is it that is set forth in Scripture to be our example in all things and WHAT is set forth in scripture as our example of prayer? Answer those questions and you have your answer.
     
    #5 Dr. Walter, Oct 22, 2011
  6. 12strings

    12strings Active Member

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    1 Cor. 1:2, "to the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours."

    Here is an example of praying or calling to Jesus.

    I tend to side with Grudem here that prayer to the Holy spirit is not forbidden, but is also not modeled or commanded.

    We are allowed for sure to simply pray to "GOD" which would include the Holy Spirit.

    The only example even close [and I admit it's not a good one] is when Ananias & Saphira lied about their financial gift, Peter said they had "lied to the Holy Spirit." I don't really know what that means, does anyone here know?

    All Said, this as in other areas, I lean toward a normative principle rather than a regulative principle. Things that are not forbidden explicitly or in principle in scripture are not sins. If we believe in the sufficiency of scripture, we must allow others leeway on certain issues that are not forbidden in scriptures. If the Bible does not call something a sin, it is not a sin. So I don't believe it is a sin to pray to the Holy Spirit, since we are told to pray to God, and The Holy Spirit is God.
     
    #6 12strings, Oct 22, 2011
  7. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter New Member

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    When we ask the Father in the name of Christ we are calling upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ as the grounds/basis for our petition.

    No prayer involved.

    If the bible makes clear the right way, then any other way is not the right way whether it is explicitly condemned or not by Scripture. For example, the Bible does not explicitly condemn sprinkling or pouring on infants. However, The scripture does provide the consistent terms and example of the right way.

    We have our example in Jesus Christ. We have the example of prayer given to us by Jesus Christ. We have his explicit instructions to ask the Father "in my name" from Jesus Christ.

    We have the precept from Paul:

    Eph. 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
     
    #7 Dr. Walter, Oct 22, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2011
  8. 12strings

    12strings Active Member

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    #8 12strings, Oct 22, 2011
  9. 12strings

    12strings Active Member

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    One more thing, the bible speaks in various places about praying with lifted hands, laying on our face, looking toward heaven...etc. That doesn't mean it is a sin to pray while driving, or while standing on one leg.
     
    #9 12strings, Oct 22, 2011
  10. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter New Member

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    You cannot intepret Biblical language in the frame work of today, but that must be interpreted within the Biblical context. The preposition "upon" or "epi" may refer to a "basis" or foundation rather than an action. We know from the overall Biblical context that any approach to the Father must be upon the authorized basis of the atoning Person and work of Jesus Christ.






    I think your being funny. However, if not, infants as subjects of immersion is missing as much as sprinkling and pouring are absent from the Biblical record.




    Jesus would be our preeminent example. Do you think he had fellowship with the Spirit? Where are his prayers or talk with the Holy Spirit? Is it possible that we can have more fellowship with the Spirit of God than Jesus?
     
    #10 Dr. Walter, Oct 22, 2011
  11. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    I agree. Jesus said for us to ask in His name. We are never instructed pray to the Holy Spirit, or to the HS in Jesus' name.

    That said, I can't imagine that God, upon hearing someone pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit, would say, "oops, he's praying to the wrong one of us. Ignore him."

    Even if we get it wrong, the scriptures tell us that Jesus intercedes for us, and the Holy Spirit helps us when we don't even know how to pray. To whomever our prayer is addressed, it'll get to the Father sooner or later.
     
    #11 Tom Butler, Oct 23, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2011
  12. CF1

    CF1 New Member

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    Thanks for your many replies.

    What should our relationship to the Holy Spirit be like?

    The Holy Spirit dwells in us, sometimes filling us. He is our constant comforter and companion as we abide in Christ.

    We should desired to not grieve or quench the Spirit.

    What should our relationship to the Holy Spirit be like?

    Can we talk to the Holy Spirit, our Helper?
     
    #12 CF1, Oct 23, 2011
  13. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    #13 JesusFan, Oct 24, 2011
  14. CF1

    CF1 New Member

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    John 16 says this on the Holy Spirit:


    Some people interpret the above to mean that we should not worship the Holy Spirit, since the Spirit
    a. does not speak on his own authority, and
    b. will glorify the Son

    The Holy Spirit is a mystery to me, how it fits together in the Trinity.

    I don't see how these verses forbid worshiping the Spirit or praying to the Spirit.

    Maybe others can explain that part to me.
     
    #14 CF1, Oct 26, 2011
  15. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    IF we talk to/pray to One of the Trinity though:
    Aren't we talking to all 3 anyways? Would talking to HS upset Ftaher and Son?
     
    #15 JesusFan, Oct 26, 2011
  16. joey

    joey Member

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    #16 joey, Oct 28, 2011
  17. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    I think Joey nailed it. When asked this question Jesus told us exactly how to do it. I've heard it explained as we pray to the Father through the Holy Spirit in the name of Jesus.
     
    #17 webdog, Oct 28, 2011
  18. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2 Well-Known Member
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    Faith:
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    I Never Address Prayer Directly to the Holy Ghost....

    .....However, when I pray, I do pra in the power and presence of the Holy Ghost.:praying:

    Pastor Paul
     
    #18 righteousdude2, Oct 28, 2011
  19. CF1

    CF1 New Member

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    Here are some verses that show we communicate with the Holy Spirit in some way.


    2 Corinthians 13:14 English Standard Version (ESV)
    14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

    2 Corinthians 13:14
    The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you all. Amen.

    fellowship   
    noun
    1.the condition or relation of being a fellow: the fellowship of humankind.
    2.friendly relationship; companionship: the fellowship of father and son.
    3.community of interest, feeling, etc.
    4.communion, as between members of the same church.
    5.friendliness.

    communion
    2. a group of persons having a common religious faith; a religious denomination: Anglican communion.
    3.association; fellowship.
    4.interchange or sharing of thoughts or emotions; intimate communication: communion with nature.
    5.the act of sharing, or holding in common; participation.
     
    #19 CF1, Oct 28, 2011
  20. CF1

    CF1 New Member

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    Thanks for sharing this link to biblical and sensible balance on true and false attributes of the Holy Spirit.

    MacArthur's interpretation of the Bible in this sermon is that because the Holy Spirit is fully God the following applies:

    "Can we pray to the Holy Spirit? Of, Course, He's God"
    "Pray to the Father, Spirit, Son all three"

    "Can we worship the Holy Spirit? Absolutely, fall down and worship the Holy Spirit"

    "He is fully God"
    but
    "Don't attribute anything to the Holy Spirit that is not of Him"
    "...replace this frivolous superficial abusive approach"
    "...get him out of the shadows, so he is not forgotten..."

    These are quotes from MacArthur's sermon linked above.

    In his closing sermon he prays "Thank you, Oh Holy Spirit for .... We give you our worship today for ... show your power in your church.... "

    It seems the Father, Son, and Spirit are all harmonized and blended and intertwined together in an inseparable manner. They are described separately but also often described as one and inseparable. So intertwined and bonded together and one union. If only the Spirit would Teach us and illuminate God in our hearts more.
     
    #20 CF1, Oct 28, 2011
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