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Shroud of Turin

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by freeatlast, Jan 21, 2012.

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  1. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    #1 freeatlast, Jan 21, 2012
  2. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    I personally believe the shroud is not the burial cloth of Jesus. I believe this because of scripture.

    John 20:7 And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.


    The shroud is one piece of fabric with the face of the victim on it. Jesus burial clothes would have had the face on the napkin not on the cloth that was on his body.
     
    #2 Amy.G, Jan 21, 2012
  3. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life Well-Known Member
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    According to Scripture and Jewish custom, Jesus' body would not have been wrapped the way the image on the shroud is. So I don't believe it's Him.
     
    #3 Baptist4life, Jan 21, 2012
  4. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    To add to Amy and Baptist4life, the face on the shroud doesn't match the description of the abuse that Jesus suffered prophecied by Isaiah in describing the Suffering Servant and described by Matthew and the other writers of the gospels.
    • Isaiah 50:6 - "I offered my back to those who beat me and my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard. I did not hide my face from mockery and spitting."
    • Mark 15:19 - "Again and again they struck him on the head with a staff and spit on him."
    • Matthew 27:30 - "They spit on him, and took the staff and struck him on the head again and again."
    • Isaiah 52:13-14 - "See, My Servant will act wisely; He will be raised and lifted up and greatly exalted. Just as many were appalled at You - His appearance was so disfigured that He did not look like a man, and His form did not resemble a human being—"
    The face on the shroud has an intact beard, shows no signs of being beaten "again and again" with a staff, and is quite recognizable as a human being. The face shows no signs of abuse.
     
    #4 Scarlett O., Jan 21, 2012
  5. beameup

    beameup Member

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    Jacques de Molay
     
    #5 beameup, Jan 21, 2012
  6. justmichael

    justmichael New Member

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    I believe it is, but that does not matter. I would still have faith with it or without it.
     
    #6 justmichael, Jan 21, 2012
  7. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    I also do not believe it is real.
     
    #7 annsni, Jan 21, 2012
  8. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    I thought he was burned at the stake. The image on the shroud shows no burn marks.

    But interesting. Countless people in history were crucified. What if the shroud were an homage to some poor mortal shmuck or his burial shroud and was never intended to be associated with Jesus?
     
    #8 Scarlett O., Jan 21, 2012
  9. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Why do you believe it's real? What evidence do you have?
     
    #9 Amy.G, Jan 21, 2012
  10. justmichael

    justmichael New Member

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    Too me, I don't see that it could be a forgery from the technology that was in the middle ages. I find it hard to wrap my head around the idea that it could have been forged or created.
     
    #10 justmichael, Jan 21, 2012
  11. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    What do yo do with this verse:
    John 20:7 The wrapping that had been on His head was not lying with the linen cloths but was folded up in a separate place by itself.

    How do suppose the facial image got on the large cloth of the shroud when the bible makes it clear the face was wrapped in a separate cloth?
     
    #11 Amy.G, Jan 21, 2012
  12. justmichael

    justmichael New Member

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    That verse does not tell me that the large cloth was not around His at the time of the resurrection. It tells me that the wrapping around His head was found separate from the shroud after the resurrection.
     
    #12 justmichael, Jan 21, 2012
  13. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    The shroud has no separate wrapping. How do you explain that?
     
    #13 Amy.G, Jan 21, 2012
  14. justmichael

    justmichael New Member

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    But to me this is irrelevant point. For we walk by faith, not by sight
     
    #14 justmichael, Jan 21, 2012
  15. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    No it's not irrelevant. The cloths described in the bible differ from the shroud. Which should we believe? I'll go with the bible.
    Yes, we walk by faith, but not by faith in artifacts. Our faith is in Christ.
    Apparently you just want to believe the shroud is real regardless of evidence. And that is your right. :wavey:
     
    #15 Amy.G, Jan 21, 2012
  16. michael-acts17:11

    michael-acts17:11 Member
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    Who cares? We could have the original cross, nails, hammer, "holy" grail, His dinner spoon, etc & it wouldn't change a single person's eternal state. It's just another idol created to be worshiped instead of the Creator.
     
    #16 michael-acts17:11, Jan 21, 2012
  17. Oldtimer

    Oldtimer New Member

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    The History Channel or one of the similar ones had a special on the Shroud a few months back. Much like police age children's photo's to give an approximation of a missing child's appearance, the image from the Shroud was run through this type software. Final result was a 3-d model of the face of Christ.

    As the lead up to this, many of the items mentioned, so far, in the thread were discussed. If memory serves, there's speculation the face cloth is somewhere in Spain, according to legend. The various wounds, according to scriptures, were where they should be on the Shroud.

    Premise on the face cloth is that it did not interfere with the image transfer, if the Shroud is real.

    So far, according the the documentary, no one has been able to prove it is real nor how it could have been produced, if not real. Even the so-called carbon dating has been questioned, as the sample was taken from an area of the Shroud that shows evidence of being repaired sometime in the past.

    As for my opiniion. I don't have one pro or con. If it is real, God preserved it for a reason, yet to be revealed. If it isn't real, that too, will be revealed, in His timeframe.
     
    #17 Oldtimer, Jan 21, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 21, 2012
  18. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Amy gave the reason the shroud is not the burial cloth of Jesus Christ in the first response!
     
    #18 OldRegular, Jan 21, 2012
  19. justmichael

    justmichael New Member

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    I must have missed it or read it wrong. My apologies. All I saw was a Bible verse.
     
    #19 justmichael, Jan 21, 2012
  20. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Well said Amy.G!:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
     
    #20 OldRegular, Jan 21, 2012
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