Question

True prayer in public places has ALWAYS been offensive, and here on the board, some even object to a Kentucky Pastor and Seminary Professor who had the gall to pray in the opening of the Kentucky Legislature a prayer that took them to task for their tacit approval of gambling and other vices.

We have to remember that what we often consider "normal" as far as cultural behavior is concerned is nothing more than a snapshot of some particular era and idea. After our soldier boys returned home from WWII with short hair cuts, that became the new norm for the United States and those who had the audacity to wear their hair long (as had been the style in earlier eras) were seen as abbarant and preached against. Same goes for the way prayer comes into and back out of the public eye as either good, bad, wanted, or un-wanted.

 

I think it is OK to be angry with people that try to curtail your right to free expression of religion, as guaranteed in the Constitution.

Actually, our country was founded by people that fled the Church of England which WAS forcing their view of religion down people's throats. The country was founded on freedom of religion, not one particular sect.

Not sure as to when it did. As to prayer in the public school, I'm glad there is no officially sponsored prayer time. If there were, the government would be forced to accomodate everyone. There would be prayers sent out to Allah, various goddess, statues of Buddha, etc. Better to pray to yourself than to be subjected to all sorts of prayers to false gods.

 

One thing that has helped me to deal with this stuff is realizing that unbelievers will never act like believers. They do not care about God nor want anything to do with Him. We have to stop expecting them to.

But nothing can separate us from the love of God. We can pray at any time and any place and God hears us. He is still on the throne even though things look bad to us.

 

Join the club my friend. We are all imperfect Christians. Allow the Holy Spirit to do the work in you. Let God use trials and tribulations in your life to conform you in His image.

I don't blame you if you get a little angry, we live here too but we are aliens in this temporary world, and our world is eternal. The world is lost. Place your effort in prayer rather than anger for the world. Remember we were once lost too.

Always remember God is still on the throne. Whatever happens, He allows it for His purpose. :thumbsup:

 

What is amazing about God's grace is that he took a wretch like me, one who could at one time find no fault in the behavor you lament in the OP, He took that depraved soul and drew him to himself and thus shed his grace on me.

Not because of anything I have done, could do or will do, but on the basis of the shed blood of Christ given by his divine puropse. I find that as an adult who currently works a full time and part time job and also attends classes at my local community college that our Lord gives me many opportunities to share my faith with those who know not Christ. In the last month, I have given away four Bibles. I try to remember that as a member of the Church, my job is to make desciples. Not easy, true but that is my job. Be of good cheer though, we serve a most powerful God!

 

Welcome to the Baptist Boards Harris79.

Amy, I agree 100%. I know how I will vote on public policy issues that are sin. However, I am under no illusion that preventing people from sinning through the use of law, civil authority or even cultural norms and expectations will result in a culture or citizens that are right with God because of their compliance. It's kind of like trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

Unbelievers will be, act and speak as unbelievers do. It is more concerning to me when we can't tell the difference, and I am looking in the mirror as I type this (metaphorically of course
).

 

Welcome to the Baptist Board, Harris79!

One thing to keep in mind is that the BB is international, though most members are Americans.

What I would say is this: Does the fact that your American currency at present has the words, "In God we Trust" on it make all Americans believers in the Lord Jesus Christ? If the words were to be taken off, would that turn a single American who really does trust in God into an atheist? How do you imagine Christians manage who live in countries where the currency does not say anything about God?

For your encouragement, read the book of Acts. There, as I am sure you know, you find Christians who follow Christ despite the severe threats to them for doing so.

Then there is that glorious passage, Romans 8.31-39:

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written: "For Your sake we are killed all day long; We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter." 37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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Surely the things you mention, like wording on currency and praying in schools, pale into insignicance when compared to life, death, angels, principalities, powers, and so on.

 

Welcome Harris79.

No, it isn't wrong to be mad at times. Christ got mad. I'm reasonably sure every Christian here has been mad. Sometimes just watching the news is enough to send our blood pressure rising. That said, our challenge, IMHO, is to channel that anger into outlets that will give glory to the Lord.

For every person this will be different as we listen to the Holy Spirit and let Him lead us. Sometimes it's walking away from an arguement. Dusting off your feet as the scriptures say. Sometimes it's turning the other cheek, no matter how hard it is at the time. And, sometimes it's simply finding our closet to pray, to ask for help in His name to:

Ephesians 6:10-14 (KJV)
10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

In closing, there's a verse of scripture to tuck away into your memory when thinking about what's happening to prayer and the other topics that you mentioned. The Lord told us, long, long, ago that this would happen. It's time to put on our armour of God.

Amos 8:11
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

 

Harris79, we do live in frightening times but in our faith there's nothing to worry about.

I frequent a (worldly) forum board quite often. It has it's share of atheist and die hard liberals and while there are a few alleged Christians present, it appears that I'm the most outspoken.

The Word is, as you know, like a two-edged sword. I was challenged recently by a one time lawyer on that forum board to prove that gun ownership/self-defense/carry concealed was endorsed by God. "What about turning the other cheek...," he proclaimed. I posted Luke 22:36 and after about three days he came back with, "I never knew that..."

Billy Graham used to always say, "The Bible says....", "The Bible says....", "The Bible says." He never crammed it down anyone's throat..., or threatened anyone with going to hell if..., it was always, "The Bible says".

Getting angry with folks is normal. Just learn to defend yourself with, "The Bible says..." No one out there can overcome what the Bible says if it's presented properly and with the right attitude.

 

Welcome Harris,

I would only mirror what the prior posters have said. In our bible study last night our pastor started teaching through Revelation 16, the seven bowls or vial judgments. In going through the judgments that will be poured out, it says over and over that men will blaspheme God and will not repent...he mentioned that just shows the complete depravity of man.

I agree that removing coordinated prayer in school is a good thing for the reason stated above, and that we as followers of Jesus can speak with Him at any time, in any place.

Good to have you on the board, and God bless you!

mt

 

:thumbs::thumbs::godisgood::jesus:

 

Do you believe in a real devil who is really trying to kill, maim, destroy, and lie about it at every turn?

Do you believe that we humans are born with a sin nature and that our natural way is to transgress God's laws, commands, wishes, will, and anything else that is God's to transgress, whether knowingly, unwittingly, on purpose, or by accident?

Do you also believe that this world is cursed by God and itself "groans" as it awaits the fulfillment of God's purpose until that day when God causes the final trump to sound?

Then why would you be surprised when sinners in a sinful world, who have sinful flesh, well, sin?

 

Welcome to BB Harris!

It is easy to get discouraged, but it is nothing new. The prophet Elijah went through the same feelings you are going through now when he fled for his life from Jezebel.

1 Kngs 19:14 And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.

Elijah was pretty depressed at this time, and believed he was the only true believer left. But God told him there were a few believers still out there.

1 Kngs 19:18 Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.

You need to find the seven thousand. Find a good local church and get involved. It is wonderful to be around other believers.

You should continue to tell folks who are willing to listen about the Lord, but never shove it down folk's throats. Always leave an open door, they may be more willing to listen another day.

But when you get discouraged, go back to your church and be with others who believe as you do.

 

There IS an answer...

The answer IS Jesus...

As Christ draws those who are lost unto Himself and they are saved, they repent and go another way. That way is often more productive and less destructive, especially when they actually follow the Scriptures that call on us to love one another, build up one another, serve one another, and jointly glorify God with each other.

So, I'd suggest going out to see whom it is that Christ is drawing, preach, teach, reach, and see the world changed one person at a time.

And, as an example of how that works out in the real world I will give a testimony of my former congregation in Louisville. As a very young congregation (about 5 years from a new start) we purchased an abandoned K-8 grade school building in one of the worst neighborhoods in Louisville. The area was known for drugs, prostitution, homosexuality, and was high on the scale for annual murders. Not the typical "urban" setting that most new congregations would (or do) seek out, and yet we did. We also asked our members to rent and buy homes in the area and to move in and start making changes. They did. Now, by the 10th anniversary of the church, the worshiping community in that building holds 4 services each Sunday and sees an average attendance of around 2000 per Sunday. They have also launched 3 other locations around the metroplex, and the total number of people coming out for worship on any given Sunday exceeds 2800. The neighborhood around the church has been transformed -- still a work in progress to be sure -- but kids play in the park again, people go for walks. Stores are re-opening. Crime rate is down -- a lot -- enough that New Albany offered a grant to Sojourn if we would come and do likewise in their city across the Ohio River. We did. Just starting but already seeing a difference.

That's the way it works. No magic bullet. Just people doing what God called them to do, carrying the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, in love, to those who need it. Professing with the mouth that Christ is Lord and serving with hands and hearts to those who need it. The gospel comes first, no change happens until Christ does the work that only He can do, but then so does the outward changes that everyone wishes to see. Homeless drug addicts become pastors in the church. Sex offenders become born again moms and dads and rear godly families. Drug pushers learn how to live free in the gospel and they push Christ crucified instead. Oh, God is SO GOOD!