1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Whats killing churches?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Iconoclast, Apr 4, 2012.

  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    #1 Iconoclast, Apr 4, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2012
  2. mont974x4

    mont974x4 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,565
    Likes Received:
    1
    We have lost our awe of God and do not revere Him or His Word.
     
  3. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,977
    Likes Received:
    2
    What is killing the modern day local church is gossip, pride, lack of visitation, laziness in doing the work of the Lord, and a mind set of a social club. Also, for smaller churches, the inability to provide entertainment for kids. This says more about us than a lost world. Also, a lost world observes the way in which we live.
     
  4. Jon-Marc

    Jon-Marc New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2007
    Messages:
    2,752
    Likes Received:
    0
    Lukewarmness is another cause--along with allowing unscriptural teachings into churches.
     
  5. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    18,441
    Likes Received:
    259
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Narrow mindedness.
    Arrogance.
    Intolerance.
    Nationalism being confused with Christianity.
    The confusion of culture with Christianity.

    I agree with the other negatives mentioned.
     
  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    12. Churched: By their second generation many congregations are composed of people who come from a churched culture and do not understand the unchurched culture. Even if they became professing Christian during the past generation, they may have lost the perspective of the unchurched.

    15. Dull: Congregations can get stuck in place, lack innovation and creativity, and simply become dull. There is no excitement, glitter or pizzazz. As such they are unattractive to new people, and do not inspire existing participants to do more than to go through the motions of being and doing Church.

    17. Management: When a congregation is beyond its first generation of life, and is not empowered by vision, a vacuum is created into which a management mindset settles in. These management people have the good of the church at heart, but forget a church is an organism and not an organization.

    20. Anxiety: Long-term, older members confuse Christ and the culture of congregations to the extent they may believe allowing congregations to change in any radical manner may deny the presence and direction of God. They fear it may even impact their personal eternity in a negative way.


    If a church has a combination of these factors at the same time...it can be deadly.
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    In trying to appeal to our postmodern culture so hard, we have ended up redefining the truths of christianity and have a new version , with different gospel and jesus some times!

    Just ask Joel Olsteen and Robb bell!
     
  8. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    4,201
    Likes Received:
    607
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The issue is a real one, but I don't think this article really comes to grip with it. In fact, the more I read this article, the less I understood. Reading it aloud to my wife, she commented that it sounded like Rick Warren (Stay tuned as I detail THE PLAN that will save our churches).

    There seemed to also be a trendy vagueness in much of the phraseology.

    "The ideal is that following the first generation of life, congregations will re-envision their future continually and effectively live into that vision as FaithSoaring Churches. However, that is an ideal realized by less than 20 percent of congregations at any given time."

    Hmm. How does he arrive at that statistic? And just what exactly is "FaithSoaring"?

    Also - and this may be more to the point of what you were asking, Iconoclast - I think the author is overvaluing "vitality" over wisdom. This is why he makes his unwarranted leap of logic from physical weakening of individuals to corporate spiritual weakening of churches. Overlooked is the fact that, as believers mature in the faith (and, necessarily, get older), they offer more and more to the local assembly.

    He is also overlooking (at least in this first article) the church just being what a church should be - preaching, teaching, living the Word that gives life - to churches and individuals.

    But the question is a good one. Like someone else has said, we are trying too hard to coax people to our churches, using trendy programs and questionable methods. And we are reaping the result. We try to entice young people into the fold, but often to the neglect of the mature members who are already present. As the church becomes statistically younger they also become less seasoned in outlook.

    They gain in "vitality".
    They lose in maturity.

    One reason also is that the church has lost sight of just how unique it is. They try to hard to be what other groups can do much better: a social club with merely horizontal agendas.
     
    #8 asterisktom, Apr 4, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2012
  9. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Messages:
    3,602
    Likes Received:
    6
    http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0264.htm

    "There is King Jesus marching at the head of his troops; and can it be that some of you, who profess to be his followers, are on the other side; that professing to be Christ's you are lighting in the ranks of the enemy—carrying the baggage of Satan and wearing the uniform of hell, when you profess to be soldiers of Christ? I know there are such here: God forgive them! God spare them; and may the deserters yet come back, even though they come back in the chains of conviction! May they come back and be saved! O brethren and sisters, there are enough to destroy souls without us—enough to extend the kingdom of Satan without our helping him. "Come out from among them; touch not the unclean thing; be ye separate." Church of God! awake, awake, awake to the salvation of men! Sleep no longer, begin to pray, to wrestle, to travail in birth; be more holy, more consistent, more strict, more solemn in thy deportment! Begin, O soldiers of Christ, to be more true to your colors, and as surely as the time shall come when the church shall thus be reformed and revived, to surely shall the King come into our midst, and we shall march on to certain victory, trampling down our enemies, and getting to our King many crowns, through many victories achieved."

    C. H. Spurgeon

    I do believe people who are coming to Jesus want to change and be better people and want to know how. Should they be coming to Christ Jesus to be the same as before? I pray that we learn righteousness in and through Christ and not to become self-righteous.

    Hebrews 5:
    Warning Against Falling Away
    11 We have much to say about this, but it is hard to make it clear to you because you no longer try to understand. 12 In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! 13 Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. 14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.
     
    #9 psalms109:31, Apr 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 5, 2012
  10. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,012
    Likes Received:
    28
    I'll tell you what's killing our churches, unsound doctrine. Now, I am not saying any of yall's churches are guilty of this but here's some other things.

    1.) Begging people to come to an altar to find Jesus(when it's Jesus who finds us, He was never lost to begin with), while the 30 repeat verses of "Just as I am" is being sung.

    2.) Taking repentance out of the salvation equation.

    3.) This "repeat after me" incantation, and viola', you're saved easybelievism.

    4.) When they find someone in the wrong, they don't confront them as charged in Matthew 18. They let these who have a "form of godliness, but deny the power thereof" tear a church apart.
     
  11. fortytworc

    fortytworc Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2012
    Messages:
    305
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's difficult to pick the top two or three. I can't do it. Mr. Bullard explained things much better than I can, but it seems to be part of human nature. I've called this process 'The Pile of Rocks Syndrome'. It is thousands of years old. We can see it happen way back when God would do something in or with His people. He would tell them to make an alter or to stack rocks up as a means of remembering and passing on to future generations "The Mighty Deed" that God had done. Sooner than later the alters and memorials meant nothing. 'Just A Pile of Rocks'
     
  12. thomas15

    thomas15 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,744
    Likes Received:
    34
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Every now and then you say something that I can agree with without reservation. I would only add that the Church has 1. forgotten it's mission (to spread the Gospel and make disciples) and 2. we have lost interest in the imminent return of the Lord Jesus for his Church.
     
  13. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,977
    Likes Received:
    2
    I think the best example I have ever seen in a church was at a pot luck, when someone was stuffing their face so fast, that one could hardly understand what they were saying. When it became clear what he was saying, he was spreading gossip about the life style of a member who had not attended in a while.
     
  14. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Tom,

    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

    I think it is difficult to put a handle on,and it is fashionable to find fault, more than find what is good. I thought although a bit vague, it could be helpful more as a checklist to make sure we do not slip into these poor qualities.

    This in large part would be the anecdote.
     
    #14 Iconoclast, Apr 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 5, 2012
  15. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Yes....the suceeding generations lose some of the original intent,unless there is biblically solid discipleship taking place, accompanied by the Spirit working in the new members.
     
  16. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Yes...he probably trampled a few members to get to the food in the first place,before the gossip could ooze forth from his lips...not good for edification:thumbsup:
     
  17. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Good quote!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

    JM-
     
Loading...