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The works of the Law in Romans

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by The Biblicist, Apr 15, 2012.

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  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Romans 1:18-3:23 is a single section of the book dedicated to prove that there are none righteous among Jews or Gentiles (Rom. 3:9 but "all" have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

    The use of the term "law" in Romans 1:18-3:20 includes the whole Mosaic Law, ceremonial, moral and civil:

    17 ¶ Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
    21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
    22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
    23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?......
    25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

    Hence, "the law" in Romans 2 includes both the moral law or ten commandments as well as the ceremonial law (circumcision).

    In Romans 3 the term "law" in Romans 3:19-20 includes the greater Mosaic law and all lessor forms of law (law written upon conscience of Gentiles) as it is the moral law of God that defines moral righteousness (Rom. 3:10-11). Romans 3:9 proves that Romans 3:10-20 applies equally to the Gentile as it does to the Jew in regard to MORAL unrighteousness. Romans 3:22-23 proves that "the law" is inclusive of the greater Mosaic law (civil, ceremonial and moral) as well as the lessor revelation of law written upon the gentile conscience as Paul says "For there is NO DIFFERENCE for ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God." The contrast of difference has been since Romans 1:18 between the Jew and Gentile and Paul concludes in regard to how sin is defined (Rom. 3:9-11; 21) there is "NO DIFFERENCE" for all have sinned.

    The Law in Romans 3 includes all aspects of God's law from its greater revelation to the Jews to its minor revelation to the Gentiles, including the moral and ceremonial law of Moses.

    The "works of the Law" refer to all forms of obedience to God's law regardless of its revealed form (on stone, on parchment, moral, civil, ceremonial, conscience, etc.).

    We are justified by faith without law keeping, without the works of the law, without circumcision.

    In Romans 4:1-25 there is no Mosaic Law as Abraham lived 430 years prior to the institution of the law of Moses. Hence, justified "without works" cannot be restricted to the Law of Moses. It refers to the whatever law of righteousness revealed to Abraham whether by conscience or by revelation from God as in the case of circumcision. Abraham was justified without circumcision as he was justified "in uncircumcision" (Rom. 4:10).

    Hence, justification "without works" in Romans 3:24-5:1 does not contradict justificaition by faith with works in Romans 6-8 any more than Romans 3:24-5:1 contradicts justification by faith with works in James 2.

    Romans 3:24-5:1 is dealing with justificaiton distinctly apart from regeneration as a doctrine whereas in Romans 6-8 is dealing with justification in connection with regeneration in the practical daily life of the believer from whence "good works" originate. Likewise, in James 1:18-2:24. James is dealing with regeneration (James 1:18) in connection with justification by faith in the practical life of the believer which always is with "good works" of some measure.

    Theologically we are justified by faith "without works" but in regard to practical daily application there is no such thing as a justified by faith person who is not also a regenerated person with good works.
     
    #1 The Biblicist, Apr 15, 2012
  2. fortytworc

    fortytworc Member

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    Thank you Mr.B! This helps clarify some things for me. I still have a question concerning faith plus works in Romans 10:9 & 10.
    Acts 10:9 Because if you confess the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from [the] dead, you shall be saved.
    10 For with [the] heart [one] believes unto righteousness, and with [the] mouth [one] confesses unto salvation.
    Acts 10:9 Because if you confess the Lord Jesus,... with [the] mouth [one] confesses unto salvation. Isn't the confession with the mouth unto salvation as much a work as "believe and be baptized for the remission of sins"? Acts 2:37 -38? for which the Church of Christ denomination is so frequently and violently maligned?
     
    #2 fortytworc, Apr 15, 2012
  3. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    forty t

    Yes ! Along with believe with thine heart !
     
    #3 savedbymercy, Apr 16, 2012
  4. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    No! John 6:64-65 proves that saving faith is "given" by God and that it is not a work of man but it is a work of God (Jn. 6:29; Eph. 2:8; Philip. 1:29) and it is of grace (Rom. 4:16; Eph. 2:8) as it is God that began and finishes the work of faith (Philip. 1:6;Heb. 12:2).

    Conversion to the gospel is the effectual work of regeneration and thus a fruit of regeneration. When God gives a new heart it comes as a believing heart. God does not give an unbelieving heart - Ezek. 36:26.

    Faith in the gospel is a PASSIVE response because saving faith only RECEIVES and RESTS upon the good news of what Christ did FOR YOU. Heart obedience to the gospel is a work of the Holy Spirit and that is why it is "of grace" (Rom. 4:16; Eph. 2:8) whereas FAITHFULNESS is a product of the new birth (Eph. 2:10) or "good works." In contrast, FAITHFULNESS is what YOU DO FOR Christ whereas faith in the gospel is RECEIVING and RESTING upon what Christ did FOR YOU!
     
    #4 The Biblicist, Apr 16, 2012
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Faith:
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    faith is the very Gift of God towards those whom He chose to elect unto receiving eternal life in jesus, so NOT a work that we do, as its the Lord in and through us bringing us to salvation !

    the Lord knows that we are morally bankrupt, sinners, unable to provode appropiate acts/deeds to allow Him to pardon us, so He supplied to us BOTH the propiation and the means by His given faith to save us!
     
    #5 Yeshua1, Apr 16, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 16, 2012
  6. fortytworc

    fortytworc Member

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    Does "confess ...unto salvation" fall into the same type 'work' category as "...be baptized ..."?
    Please excuse me if I am causing you to repeat yourself by my slowness at understanding what you have said. I have tried to simplify my question so maybe I'll 'get it'
    this time. Thank You.
     
    #6 fortytworc, Apr 16, 2012
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Also understand that those who use the Acts account to "prove" water baptism is a requirement for salvation misinterprete it!

    peter is telling them to believe in jesus, and be baptised in his name, as that name itself is the very basis of our sins being now forgiven!
    the person whose name baptised by would be the source of salvation!
     
    #7 Yeshua1, Apr 16, 2012
  8. fortytworc

    fortytworc Member

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    Thank You.
     
    #8 fortytworc, Apr 16, 2012
  9. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    bib

    Yes, believing is a result of God working in one both to will and to DO of His Good Pleasure, so believing is the Work of Man, by the abilty and Grace of God given him !

    Phil 2:13

    13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

    Man is still the one doing when he believes according to God's good pleasure !

    That word do as in to do is the greek word energeō
    and means :

    to be operative, be at work, put forth power

    a) to work for one, aid one

    2) to effect

    3) to display one's activity, show one's self operative

    So yes, Believing is a work of the New Man, with a renewed mind given in his new creation ! In regeneration or new birth a spiritual mind to serve the Law of God is given ! Rom 7:25

    I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

    Its a New Covenant Blessing from the Blood of Christ Heb 8:10

    For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
     
    #9 savedbymercy, Apr 16, 2012
  10. fortytworc

    fortytworc Member

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    Then you would agree with the Church of Christs' emphasis on baptism as in "repent and be baptized for the remission of sins."
     
    #10 fortytworc, Apr 16, 2012
  11. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    "The Church Of Christ" is the name of a denomination and I don't know what they teach.
     
    #11 billwald, Apr 16, 2012
  12. fortytworc

    fortytworc Member

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    They hold to historical church orthodoxy concerning the Trinity/ the Deity of Jesus,the Virgin birth, Jesus physical death on the cross shedding His blood for our salvation. His physical resurrection, Ascension, and return.
    They teach that His true church is called "The Church of Christ" Thus they are not a denomination. They indeed Are The Church of Christ. The Church which Jesus started. (They have their own booklet 'The Trail of Blood' following the history of The Church of Christ.
    They teach and practice that you Must believe And You Must Be Baptized 'For (in order to receive) the remission of sins. Acts 2:37,38.

    They also are very strong on losing you salvation. Your salvation can be 'lost' Very easily.
    There is NO security of salvation. By commission or omission you can sin at any moment, die, and go to hell. You never can know never know if you are saved. If you say you are walking close with God and know you are saved that may constitute the sin of pride so you are lost again.
    That's the main stuff as I know it.
     
    #12 fortytworc, Apr 17, 2012
  13. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    They preach "another gospel" and they are certainly not "The church of Christ" any more than they are the "church of God."

    They make Christ a liar as Christ denies in the strongest langauge possible that he will even lose one that was given to him of the Father (Jn. 6:39).
     
    #13 The Biblicist, Apr 17, 2012
  14. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    forty

    I will say this on that:

    Baptism for the remission of sin !

    Acts 2:38

    38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    The scripture speaks of baptism for the remission of sin here ! This however means that by this ordinance, to those Peter was then speaking,

    one is being led [spiritually instructed] to or publicly Identifying with, the sufferings and death of Him, represented in the ordinance, and for whom Names sake Repentance and Remission of sins has been granted or given Lk 24:47; Acts 5:31; Matt 26:28

    47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

    Acts 5:31

    31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

    Whose Blood was shed for it to be given to those He shed His Blood in behalf of Matt 26:28

    28For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

    It never means that one must be water baptized in order for God to forgive you for your sins, that would be obtaining remission of sins by something man does, which is works ! The word for in Acts 2:38 is a preposition eis, and sStrong's saysthis:

    "For" (as used in Acts 2:38 "for the forgiveness...") could have two meanings. If you saw a poster saying "Jesse James wanted for robbery", "for" could mean Jesse is wanted so he can commit a robbery, or is wanted because he has committed a robbery. The later sense is the correct one. So too in this passage, the word "for" signifies an action in the past. Otherwise, it would violate the entire tenor of the NT teaching on salvation by grace and not by works.
    So Peter would be instructing these inquiring, that because of remission of sins, you now make a public confession by submitting to water baptism as an evidence of your new found faith in Christ, the one you were responsible for putting to death !

    The word eis can emphasize result: in so much that !

    Inso much that ye have received remission of sins , then be baptized in His Name and identify with His cause , His followers !


    Now if one takes water baptism as an condition to have their sins forgiven, then they devalue what Christ's Blood accomplished for them He died for and promote a salvation of works !
     
    #14 savedbymercy, Apr 17, 2012
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    jesus is the name/person that we are water baptised into, as he is the remission/basis of our sins being forgiven!
     
    #15 Yeshua1, Apr 17, 2012
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