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Featured Jesus Christ Died for the Church; Did he Die for the Nation Israel?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by OldRegular, Aug 3, 2012.

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  1. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Acts 20:28. Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.


    Jesus Christ Died for the Church; Did he Die for the Nation Israel?
     
    #1 OldRegular, Aug 3, 2012
  2. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    John 1:29
    The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

    He died for all, but only those who enter into faith will realize it.
     
    #2 freeatlast, Aug 3, 2012
  3. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    The question was not whether he died for the individual. He obviously did! Scripture also tells us that He died for the Church. The question is did Jesus Christ die for Israel as a nation?
     
    #3 OldRegular, Aug 3, 2012
  4. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    I guess I am a little confused as I never mentioned an individual nor does the passage. If He died for the world and Israel is part of this world then......The problem you are having is the same one anyone has who cannot accept scripture that teaches God does always get His will. He died for all and that included all Israel, but all will not come.
     
    #4 freeatlast, Aug 3, 2012
  5. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like those who enter into faith are individuals!

    Scripture tells us He died for the Church as an entity. The Church is redeemed to salvation and eternal life! The world is not! I believe you are dodging the question! Some people on this Forum seem to be hung up on "the Nation Israel". Did Jesus Christ die for the nation Israel as an entity?
     
    #5 OldRegular, Aug 3, 2012
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Calvinists would say no, citing their replacement theology. However if we define "the nation of Israel" as all the individuals who obtained approval through faith, then of course Jesus died for them. The "church" is simply as assemble of believers, and if we define the nation of Israel as an assemble of believers our problem is solved. I think Paul pretty much explained this in Romans 12. Do you have another view?
     
    #6 Van, Aug 3, 2012
  7. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    Romans 9:4-7
    Who are Israelites; to whom [pertaineth] the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service [of God], and the promises
    Whose [are] the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ [came], who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
    Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel:
    Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

    So yes He died for Israel, just not all Israel is of Israel.
     
    #7 freeatlast, Aug 3, 2012
  8. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Christ died for the elect, Jew or Gentile. He didn't die for "nations".
     
    #8 Amy.G, Aug 3, 2012
  9. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Calvinist do not hold to replacement theology. That is a false charge made by some of dispensational persuasion!

    Actually the Apostle Paul described the Church as more than an assembly of believers: For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. [2 Corinthians 11:2]

    And then the beloved Apostle John used similar language: And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. [Revelation 21:2]

    And of course the Apostle Peter used the following when talking about the Church: But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: [1 Peter 2:9] I believe that similar expressions were used relative to true Israel of the Old Testament.

    You say:
    Isn't that a gross contradiction in terms? The nation Israel is certainly not a nation of believers!
     
    #9 OldRegular, Aug 3, 2012
  10. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I realize that Jesus Christ died for the elect and only the elect! The Apostle Paul said He died for the Church!

    So you are saying He did not die for the nation Israel. I agree!
     
    #10 OldRegular, Aug 3, 2012
  11. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    I don't understand the point you're trying to make. He didn't die for "America" either.
     
    #11 Amy.G, Aug 3, 2012
  12. MorseOp

    MorseOp New Member

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    Jesus did not die for any nation. He died for His sheep.
     
    #12 MorseOp, Aug 3, 2012
  13. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    He did die for THE HOLY NATION....The Church

     
    #13 Iconoclast, Aug 3, 2012
  14. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    No where does it say that Christ died only for the church. Seeing as Paul was speaking to the church his words were appropriate.
     
    #14 mandym, Aug 3, 2012
  15. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    He died for all, but not all get saved.
    John 1:29
    The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
    Notice it does not say the sin of the elect.
     
    #15 freeatlast, Aug 3, 2012
  16. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:


    I say yes.
     
    #16 percho, Aug 3, 2012
  17. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Gal 4:8,9 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

    Well I assume those are the elect that God knows. Does that mean to be known by God is to be the elect?

    Hear this word that the LORD hath spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying, You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.

    Well are these nations elect also?
     
    #17 percho, Aug 3, 2012
  18. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    If Jesus died for all men....there would be no need to say he died for the sheep, the church,those given by the Father....


    I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep
    even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

    14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
     
    #18 Iconoclast, Aug 3, 2012
  19. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Amy.G,

    As a dispensationalist how often does the nation Israel and the millennium enter your thoughts, your conversation? Therefore the question: Did Jesus Christ die for the nation Israel?
     
    #19 OldRegular, Aug 3, 2012
  20. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I agree that He died for His sheep!
     
    #20 OldRegular, Aug 3, 2012
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