1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Predestinated to Faith in Christ !

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, Oct 21, 2012.

Top Posters
Page 1 of 3
  1. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    166
    Eph 1:5

    5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

    Predestinated us unto the Adoption of Children !

    Many of the Lord's adversaries of the Gospel of Truth will tell us that there are no scriptures that tell us that people have been predestinated to Faith in Christ ! Well that is absolutely false, for Eph 1:5 informs us of that exact thing, by stating " Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself"

    He predetermined or preordained before hand an Adoption in Time by Jesus Christ !

    According to the good pleasure of His Will ! Also to the praise of the glory of His Grace, which He graced us in in the Beloved; All that means, we who have believed, believe because of predestinating Grace Acts 18:27

    27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

    Remember, as many as were ordained to Eternal Life believed Acts 13:48 !

    That believing is the result of God having predestnated us to the Adoption of Children, that is that our Election and Sonship become known publically by our public Faith in Christ Gal 3:26

    26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

    Paul uses the exact same greek word for children here as he did in Eph 1:5, its the word huios and means Son !

    The Faith in Christ we have , we [The Sons] were predestinated unto it !

    Another scripture that speaks to some being predestinated unto Faith in Christ is Rom 8:29

    29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    Those God foreknew as also here Rom 11:2

    2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

    Those he predestinated to Faith in Christ simply because He predestinated them to be conformed to His Image, which image is to Trust in God Heb 2:13

    13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

    Thats the fruit of being adopted unto Children by Jesus Christ !

    The being conformed to the Image of Christ for the foreknown and predestinated, that process begins at a certain time for each foreknown and predestinated one, which begins at their New Birth, New Birth is of Necessity for the Eternal Purpose to begin their experimental conformity to Christ, and with the New Birth comes the Birth of Faith and Hope 1 Pet 1:3

    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope [Faith] by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    Predestinated to Faith in Christ is taught in scripture for those who have eyes to see it !
     
    #1 savedbymercy, Oct 21, 2012
  2. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    16,008
    Likes Received:
    481
    Since regeneration, faith, adoption, justification, sanctification, glorification were all equally predestined or preordained as well then all these things occurred "IN TIME" by appointment correct?

    Therefore prior to that time they were IN UNBELIEF!
    Therefore prior to that time they were NOT SONS!
    Therefore prior to that time they were NOT REGENERATED children of God
    Etc.,etc.

    Hence, they were IN UNBELIEF and were "CHILDREN OF WRATH" even as others and you cannot be a child of "wrath" even as others if you are not under wrath even as others as one must be under wrath or else they cannot be "children of wrath" at all much less even as others.

    They were CONDEMNED while in unbelief even as others - Jn. 3:18 as all who are in unbelief are condemned BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOT BELIEVED ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST as only those who "believeth on him IS not condemned":

    Jn. 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    Note all the PRESENT TENSE VERBS "is" and "believeth"

    1. Jesus says that the only ones who are not condemned are those PRESENTLY BELIEVING in Jesus Christ and since the elect were predestinated IN TIME to believe thus they are condemned prior to that time EVEN AS OTHERS.

    2. Jesus says that those PRESENTLY in not believing in Jesus Christ are "CONDEMNED ALREADY" because he PRESENTLY is not believing in Jesus Christ.

    You can't answers these objections. You won't answer these objections because you are a heretic, a false teacher who ignores all objections against your false teachings and simply responds in one of two ways. Here are your only responses:

    1. Pit scripture against scripture
    2. Repeat false teachings while ignoring opposing Biblical evidence

    These are the tactics of all heretics. These tactics are your calling cards. These tactics expose the master you serve.
     
    #2 The Biblicist, Oct 22, 2012
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist

    God knows all things that will happen, but until we receive jesus by faith , us being as he proposes as NOT yet happened!
     
    #3 Yeshua1, Oct 22, 2012
  4. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    166
    the bib

    Yes ! But still Sons or Heirs Gal 4:1

    Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;

    Paul is comparing the unregenrate heir Son to that of a mere servant to sin as any other unbeliever, so yes they are in unbelief !

    You do lie however to say that before Faith they are not Sons or Children of God, in Fact, the very reason why they receive the Spirit of Adoption, which is nothing but New Birth in Time, is because they are Sons or Children by Election in Christ [Heb 2:13] Gal 4:6

    6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

    Now, as ususal you have digressed from the Point of the OP, can you state the Point of the OP and then if you are able disprove the point of the OP wrong with scripture !
     
    #4 savedbymercy, Oct 22, 2012
  5. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    166
    Predestinated to Faith in Jesus Christ !



    Not only were the Elect Predestinated to be conformed to the image of Christ, but also were they predestinated to first bear the image of Adam 1 Cor 15:49

    49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

    So as they were predestinated to bear the Image of Christ Rom 8:29

    29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    So likewise were they predestinated to bear the image of the First Adam.

    And as sure as they did indeed bear the image of adam First [In time], there is no uncertainty of them bearing the image of the Heavenly Adam, Christ, in fact, the one was for the purpose of the other, the lesser for the purpose of the greater ; and in all things in God's Eternal Decree's and Purposes Christ has the Preeminence Col 1:17-18

    17 And he [Christ the Mediator] is before all things, and by him all things consist.

    18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

    Even the very details of the physical lives of the Elect came about as by the predestination of God Acts 17:26

    26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

    That word determined is the greek word horizō and is the same word used here by Luke 22:22


    22 And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!

    And Peter in Acts 2:23

    23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

    So how much more were the spiritual lives of the Elect Determined, and again 1 Cor 15:49 makes it clear and certain, that as they [the elect or chosen, or called] beared the image of the Natural, so shall [a promise] they bare the image of the Heavenly, and Why ? Because of Predestination !
     
    #5 savedbymercy, Oct 22, 2012
  6. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    16,008
    Likes Received:
    481
    Not according to your own words! You said that sonship had been predestinated "in time" - these are your own words and I quote:

    He predetermined or preordained before hand an Adoption in Time by Jesus Christ ! - SBM
     
    #6 The Biblicist, Oct 23, 2012
  7. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    166
    the bib

    Yes, thats because in your dishonesty and deception you only quoted partial of what I stated !

    I stated this as well:

     
    #7 savedbymercy, Oct 23, 2012
  8. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    16,008
    Likes Received:
    481
    So now you are forced to teach TWO adoptions while the Bible teaches only ONE. What God purposed God performed and thus proving that purpose does not equal performance as your irrational and heretical brain dictates.
     
    #8 The Biblicist, Oct 23, 2012
  9. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    166
    the bib

    No there is only one, where did I say there were Two adoptions ? Another lie and misrepresentation, thats all you do ! Please show where i stated that, you are lying just like when you stated before something i said, but then you gave only a partial statement !
     
    #9 savedbymercy, Oct 23, 2012
  10. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    166
    the bib

    Now deal with the point of the OP and quit evading it. Do you know what the Point is I am making ?
     
    #10 savedbymercy, Oct 23, 2012
  11. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    16,008
    Likes Received:
    481
    Adoption cannot be "predestinated" and yet already fulfilled as that is oxymoronic! Since predestination demands an "IN TIME" fullfillment then adoption was fulfilled "IN TIME" not in eternity in any substantive way whatsoever. To claim both is to claim two adoptions.
     
    #11 The Biblicist, Oct 23, 2012
  12. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,429
    Likes Received:
    1,574
    Faith:
    Baptist
    However you can identify someone for adoption--an earmark if you will & then later actually adopt em. Think of it like a kinda layaway....ahhh, maybe not. :thumbs:
     
    #12 Earth Wind and Fire, Oct 23, 2012
  13. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    16,008
    Likes Received:
    481
    That my friend is called "election"
     
    #13 The Biblicist, Oct 23, 2012
  14. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    166
    the bib

    Thats a Lie Eph 1:5

    5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
     
    #14 savedbymercy, Oct 23, 2012
  15. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,429
    Likes Received:
    1,574
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Right....:thumbsup:
     
    #15 Earth Wind and Fire, Oct 23, 2012
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    50% right, as he fails to connect the dots that show that those so predestined will confirm that and MUST place faith in jesus to become one of the Elect!
     
    #16 Yeshua1, Oct 23, 2012
  17. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    16,008
    Likes Received:
    481
    You are the one lying as you took my words out of context. Put them back into the sentence and then deal with it.
     
    #17 The Biblicist, Oct 23, 2012
  18. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    64
    You have argued previously in another thread that the elect are justified in eternity past while they are yet unsaved. Above you argue that those predestined to adoption as children are adopted in time. You use Romans 8:29 to defend your premise.

    You are not only incorrect in your claim of eternal justification you are inconsistent in your use of Scripture. Consider the complete passage from Romans, part of which you quote.

    Romans 8:29, 30
    29. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
    30. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

    You argue in the OP that the elect are predestined to adoption with adoption occurring in time because of the Faith of the elect.

    In the above Scripture, verse 30, we are told that those God predestinates he also justifies. We are told in Romans 5:1 and elsewhere in Scripture:

    Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

    Using the same reasoning you use to show that those predestined to adoption as children are adopted in time as the result of their faith it follows that those predestined to justification are justified in time by their faith.

    So you see that your claim of eternal justification, that justification precedes both salvation and faith, is false.
     
    #18 OldRegular, Oct 23, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2012
  19. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    166
    or

    Yes !

    I know what I posted.

    I never said none of that here !

    The elect are adopted in time because of Predestination is what I stated Eph 1:5

    5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
     
    #19 savedbymercy, Oct 23, 2012
  20. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    166
    the bib

    No you are. Eph 1:5

    5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
     
    #20 savedbymercy, Oct 23, 2012
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 1 of 3
Loading...