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What about Adam?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by percho, Feb 10, 2013.

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  1. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Had Adam determined, by his own free will, that he would not disobey God, that is not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, would he then have been, "the Christ," being he would have been sinless?

    Assuming the answer to that question necessitates the affirmative. What then of the lamb foreordained from the foundation of the world of shedding his blood?

    If it had been a descendant of sinless Adam that brought sin and death into the world, would there have been two Christ?

    Just thinking out loud.
     
    #1 percho, Feb 10, 2013
  2. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    Christ a part of the trinity would still be God to be worshiped.

    The Son has the knowledge of good and evil just as the Father and did not and does not sin. Adam would not have the knowledge of good and evil. God created man and angels with a free agency which they can do what is in the bounds God has placed around them. If Adam did not have a free agency there will be no way he could go against the will of God, the will of God was not for Him to eat of the knowledge of good and evil. It is in His word, so even if you can't comprehend it, we are to believe.

    Adam did what he did with a free agency and mankind paid the consequences for His action.

    God had predetermined the consequences and nothing we can do to change it, but trust in Him over our own understanding. That we trust in Christ, listen and learn from Him, just the way we are dead in sin and we will be saved. We are not different from no one else, we are all dead in sin.

    Ezekiel 28:15
    You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you.
     
    #2 psalms109:31, Feb 10, 2013
  3. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    What does, "the Christ," mean?

    Who is anointing whom, what?

    Please explain to me; What took place in these verses, when did, what ever took place, take place and in what manner did it take place?

    So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. As he saith also in another [place], Thou [art] a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. Hebrews 5:5,6 KJV

    Thou art the Christ the Son of the Living God. Matt. 16:16, Matt 1:20 I am also correct in saying this person spoken of is also, the seed of Abraham am I not? Gal. 3:16 also David? Rom. 1:3
     
    #3 percho, Feb 10, 2013
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  4. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    Lets us make man in our Image.

    Now they will be like us knowing good and evil.

    Who is the us and we.

    We are still created through, by and for Him. We became a new creation the one's God chose before the foundation of the world.

    We became a new creation by His word we are born again by.

    To not eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Today to believe in Jesus even over our own understanding.

    We are going to have to be born again by His word to become this new creation.
     
    #4 psalms109:31, Feb 10, 2013
  5. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    All that has happened, has occurred according to the plan of God. He knew full well what was going to happen.
     
    #5 convicted1, Feb 11, 2013
  6. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    I know, but would Adam be the Christ if he did not sin is the question of the OP. Adam did what he did by his own free agency and the will of God was not for him to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and he rebelled against God and was not born again through the Son of God to become the new creation through Him. That even Adam was missing something that can only be obtained by obedience to Him to have a rebirth through His Son by His word. That we have to believe God even over our own understanding. Adam knew that he was missing something instead of turning to God he turned to the tree. He then worshiped the created thing over the Creator who is blessed forever Amen. Only God can give to us what we are missing in us and we can only obtain it by turning to Him is our lesson from Adam.
     
    #6 psalms109:31, Feb 11, 2013
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  7. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    having known that, not with corruptible things -- silver or gold -- were ye redeemed from your foolish behaviour delivered by fathers, but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and unspotted -- Christ's -- foreknown, indeed, before the foundation of the world, 1 Peter 1:18-20 YLT

    The foolish behavior delivered by our fathers is sin. Is it not? And we are redeemed from the wages of sin (death) delivered by fathers, therefore Adam.


    Now before the father of the foolish behavior was created it was foreknown that the Christ, the lamb unblemished and unspotted would shed his blood, die for the one who would bring about death on himself and his children by his foolish behavior.

    Was not Adam created for this very purpose?

    He wasn't created as the Christ but for the purpose of bringing the Christ into the world. Yes or No?

    I also think a good question to ask is; What transpired in the creation of Adam that allowed the Christ to come into the world through Adam?

    Therefore what was the purpose of the Christ coming into the world that also resulted in Adam and his children being redeemed from the result of his foolish behavior?
     
    #7 percho, Feb 11, 2013
  8. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    Now you want the what if gone. Adam did not do the will of God which was not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and that is what happen because of that. It was not the will of God for him to sin,but God being every where in time at one moment had to put that in place, what Adam did was by his own free agency.
     
    #8 psalms109:31, Feb 11, 2013
  9. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Was Adam created by his creator knowing he would sin thereby allowing for the Christ to be subject to death brought forth by that sin?

    Was it not very important to the purpose of the Living God for the Christ, the Son of the Living God, the lamb without spot or blemish, to be subject to death?

    Was the sin of Adam necessary for the death of the man created in the image of God?

    By the way, Thank you for your responses. We have a lot of lookers with 3 for discussion. Interesting in the very least.
     
    #9 percho, Feb 11, 2013
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  10. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    The Son has glory from the beginning and nothing will change that. We are still created for Him and through Him, those reborn through His word.

    God created man with a free agency to do things with in the bounds God placed. Its the will of God to created us this way. He doesn't want us to worship Him because we have to or because it it some ritual but because we want to.

    God created with knowing what we we will do but created us anyways. Our God also provides,He provided us a way out for them the one who would crush the serpents head the work of the devil and for us the one who did. We must trust in Him and what He did to save us
     
    #10 psalms109:31, Feb 11, 2013
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  11. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Therefore what was the purpose of the Christ coming into the world that also resulted in Adam and his children being redeemed from the result of his foolish behavior?


    You touched on the answer to this question in your above response maybe without knowing, I can't really tell.

    Adam had to be created in the manner he was so that through death, the Son of God, the lamb, could die and crush the head of the serpent.

    Will those redeemed also have a part in that crushing the head of the serpent and if so how?

    I think Paul thought so in Romans 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you. Amen.

    How? I believe the first man Adam was created in order to be born again in the second Adam.

    How will the God of peace, bruise Satan under our feet shortly?
     
    #11 percho, Feb 11, 2013
  12. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    God created Adam with a free agency in which he could sin. God created Him perfect, until wickedness was found in him, just like satan, just like king tyre to believe the lie over the truth the word of God.

    Adam could of said man can't live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of God and be born again in the Son. To be one with His Son, one with God. In the image we can sin, but not in the Son. That is what Adam was missing a real relationship with God the one that Enoch had. To walk with God every step of the way in our life. He would of never sinned if adam did. It will be because of God, being one with Him.

    We will one day see the serpent head crush under our feet in the Son and say death were is thy sting, oh death were is thy victory.

    Our new life is in Son not in of our self.
     
    #12 psalms109:31, Feb 11, 2013
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