1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Is the Church local, universal or both?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Soulman, Mar 29, 2013.

  1. Soulman

    Soulman New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2004
    Messages:
    1,088
    Likes Received:
    0
    What is the church? An assembly of called out believers right? Was the Great Commission given to the Local Church or to all (universal church) believers? Is what many refer to as the universal church actually the Kingdom of God?
     
  2. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2012
    Messages:
    2,838
    Likes Received:
    128
    I maintain it is a local Assembly, and only a local Assembly. I do not believe the Scriptures speak of the "Church" as a Universal entity. Then again...most will disagree. All the saved are certainly "saints" and part of the "kindgom" of God and what-not...but, I wouldn't call them the Church.
     
  3. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,013
    Likes Received:
    3,649
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What local assembly was Jesus talking about when He said He would build His church?
     
  4. Aaron

    Aaron Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    20,253
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    Faith:
    Baptist
    As far as Christ's government, it's universal. As far as the oversight of bishops and deacons, it's local.
     
  5. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2008
    Messages:
    3,822
    Likes Received:
    1
    Its both.

    The local church is scriptural and real.

    The universal church is scriptural and real.
     
  6. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,012
    Likes Received:
    28
    :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
     
  7. Herald

    Herald New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2011
    Messages:
    1,600
    Likes Received:
    27
    I agree with this. I would only add that in addition to Christ's government, the Church is universal in number.
     
  8. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2012
    Messages:
    2,838
    Likes Received:
    128
    Possibly the specific individuals he called-out, trained, sent to evangelize and baptize, celebrated the last supper-with, initially appeared to after his ressurrection, Prayed for specifically in lieu of all others in John 17:9-18 and upon whom the Holy Spirit fell on the day of Pentecost when God added unto them thousands of souls whom they subsequently Baptised.
     
  9. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2012
    Messages:
    2,838
    Likes Received:
    128
    That the local Church is Scriptural and real is not debateable. Personally, I have never found ANY passage of Scripture which teaches that there is such a thing as a "Universal-Assembly" which is essentially an oxymoron.

    It is commonly asserted amongst Modern Baptists post ecumenicism....but, this was decidedly not always so. I suppose I could be wrong: But desperate to convince myself that the Scriptures teach such a thing, I try in vain to find such a thing in Scripture. I wish I could....but it's just not there.
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    believe that the Bible supports there being ONE Body/bride of christ, which includes all the redeemed living and dead in him, that would be the Universal church/body/Bride, while her eon earth there are also local churches, which include both saved and lost!
     
  11. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,013
    Likes Received:
    3,649
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That makes no sense. So "possibly" Jesus only took care to build that one single church. All others are on their own in your view?
     
  12. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,406
    Likes Received:
    101
    It is both.

    Within ecclesiology discussions there are two distinctions between the Church invisible and the church visible. The invisible Church refers to the entire body of Christ, the corpus of Christianity, throughout the world in all of history. The church visible refers to individual, local churches that populate the entire world.

    So it's both. In the NT we see both the invisible and visible church which relates to the local and universal church.
     
  13. Soulman

    Soulman New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2004
    Messages:
    1,088
    Likes Received:
    0
    Could He have meant the local church He actually started. Christ and the apostles certainly qualified as an assembly. Christ was the good shepherd. (pastor).
     
  14. Soulman

    Soulman New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2004
    Messages:
    1,088
    Likes Received:
    0
    In the Greek "Ekklesia" meaning assembly is used. Wouldn't all believers outside of this definition be called something other than the invisible church? I do not see it referenced in the bible. Perhaps Kingdom of God?
     
  15. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    6,890
    Likes Received:
    262
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The Church isn't universal. Simply because not everyone will be saved. The Church is the bride of Christ.
    The Great commission is a commandment to spread the gospel and it is for every believer.
    MB
     
  16. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,013
    Likes Received:
    3,649
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Then you have to believe that every other church is on their own and Christ is not part of their existence.
     
  17. Soulman

    Soulman New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2004
    Messages:
    1,088
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not on their own. The local churches have the bible, a pastor and Christ as it's head. They are all under the lordship of Christ, independent of each other. Denominations are man made. All believers outside the local church, though Christians are not part of any universal church the bible speaks of. Kingdom perhaps? The Great commission if given to the local church belongs to any local church.
     
  18. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,013
    Likes Received:
    3,649
    Faith:
    Baptist
    If Christ was only talking about building His church that only included those immediately around Him then every other church does not have Christ as its head. You cannot have it both ways.
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    there are persons in heaven right now who are still aprt of the church of Christ, part of his body/bride, so there must be somehing more than a local assembly of believers meant!

    Also, there is ONLY ONE church of christ, one that he shepards over, so if local assemblies, which group?

    baptists/ methodists? Nazarene?
     
  20. Soulman

    Soulman New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2004
    Messages:
    1,088
    Likes Received:
    0
    Verse please? I submit that while I was a Universal church guy that after studying I found nothing to support it.
     
Loading...