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Gospel Agreement?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by The Biblicist, Jun 12, 2013.

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  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    If there is no agreement on the gospel, then it does not matter what else people may agree with as "the gospel is the power of God unto salvation."

    1. You can agree in the right definition of God and still be without salvation
    2. You can agree in the inspiration of the Bible and still be without salvation
    3. You can agree in the right content of the gospel and still be without salvation
    4. You can agree about the ordinances and still be without salvation.
    5. You can agree that Christians should live godly and still be without salvation.
    6. You can agree with the Apostles creed and stilll be without salvation.
    7. You can agree with any Baptist Confession and still be without salvation.


    However, you cannot believe in the wrong gospel and be saved - Gal. 1:8-9; 1 Cor. 15:1-15; Mt. 7:21-23

    You can be saved and still sin - 1 Jn. 1:8-10
    You can be saved and be wrong about the church and ordinances - Acts 18 - Apollos
    You can be saved and be wrong or ignorant about many other doctrines - Heb. 5:12-15; Mt. 28:20.

    However, you cannot believe in a wrong god and be saved - Jn. 17:3

    You cannot believe in a different Savior and be saved - Acts 4:12

    You cannot come to the Father any other way than by the Son - Jn. 14:6

    You cannot be without some kind of manifest fruits of repentance and be saved - Lk. 13:3; Mt. 3:6-8.
     
    #1 The Biblicist, Jun 12, 2013
  2. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    Do you think you're going to get disagreement on these points?
     
    #2 Thomas Helwys, Jun 13, 2013
  3. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Hard to tell? However, my points are much more specific and definitive than what is stated in the Apostle's Creed. The apostle's creed says virtually nothing about the gospel but leaves it like a blank check for anyone to fill in the blanks with anything imaginable.
     
    #3 The Biblicist, Jun 13, 2013
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    I can not think of a time where I could not differ with Biblicist at least some place.

    So I will take up the challenger here.

    In Romans 2 Paul states that those with no access to Bible knowlege at all - can be saved - with the New Covenant work of the Holy Spirit actually done to them as with us who have the Bible.

    So here I think Paul is right - and that Biblicist is overstating the case and ignoring context.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #4 BobRyan, Jun 13, 2013
  5. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Romans 2 states no such thing. The entire context refers to self-righteous moral or religious hypocrits who beleive they can be justified by their works on judgement day.

    The law requires sinless perfection for the jews just as the conscience does in the gentile and neither the Jew or the Gentile keep the law according to either. The law's standard of sinless perfection is revealed in the gospel of Christ on judgement day as the gospel is the good news of a SINLESS substitute for sinners and only those who are SINLESS can pass the judgement of Law and conscience in the judgment day as it is that standard that God will employ to judge YOUR works for all who attempt to be justified by works.
     
    #5 The Biblicist, Jun 13, 2013
  6. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    Well, I agree with you in your interpretation of Romans 2.
     
    #6 Thomas Helwys, Jun 13, 2013
  7. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Please point out salvation of anyone in this chapter? You are both wrong.
     
    #7 The Biblicist, Jun 13, 2013
  8. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Those who take the position of Bob and Hewly in regard to Romans 2 overlook a fundemental rule of hermeneutics - immediate context.

    The subjects of discussion are identified in verses 1-5 and verses 17-29. NO CHRISTIANS CAN BE FOUND DESCRIBED OR STATED in these verses - NONE! NADA! NOT ONE! In verses 1-5 it is the hypocrit being described who believes his perceived good works will get him through judgment. In verses 17-29 it is the JEW who believes he will be justified by the works of the Law in the day of judgement.

    The rest of the chapter (vv. 6-16) deals with principles that God will judge address the hypocrit and Jewish legalist in the day of judgement and the standard for judgement is the Law of God delivered to each, whether by Moses or by conscience.

    In the verses that define the subjects there are NO CHRISTIANS described or stated (vv. 1-5; vv. 25-31) but only HYPOCRITS who think their good works will justify them before God at judgement day.

    However, this chapter is suitable for those who believe in justification by works as they are the very subjects of this chapter.
     
    #8 The Biblicist, Jun 13, 2013
  9. TisMe

    TisMe New Member

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    Likewise, I must agree with you both.
     
    #9 TisMe, Jun 13, 2013
  10. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Well, for all you that agree with each other, how do you respond to the contextual facts I have presented above? Do you really think that saying "I agree" changes the word of God to agree with your erroneous interpretations??????
     
    #10 The Biblicist, Jun 13, 2013
  11. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    The Persons to be judged - law keepers - Rom. 2:1-5 (Gentiles); 17-25 (Jews)
    The Principles for Judging justly - Rom. 2;6-16

    There are no believers, Christians, saints, elect mentioned at all in this chapter.
     
    #11 The Biblicist, Jun 13, 2013
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    actually...

    paul spends Romans 1-3 describing different types of SINNERS, none of them saved, but how they are ignorant of God, spiritual proud/into sinning etc

    have to get to cahpter 4 for "good news!"
     
    #12 Yeshua1, Jun 13, 2013
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    In Romans 1 - Paul writes 'to the saints".

    In Romans 2 Paul contrasts those who get "eternal life" with those who do not.

    The Calvinist solution is to "pretend" we did not see any of that in Romans 1 or 2.

    How sad.

    By Contrast - the Baptist Confession of Faith shows us that Romans 1 and 2 are applicable to the saved saints today.

    =======================
    Baptist Confession of Faith - 1689


    (1) For the Fourth Commandment: Gen 2:3; Exo 16; Gen 7:4; 8:10,12. For the Fifth Commandment: Gen 37:10. For the Sixth Commandment: Gen 4:3-15. For the Seventh Commandment: Gen 12:17. For the Eighth Commandment: Gen 31:30; 44:8. For the Ninth Commandment: Gen 27:12. For the Tenth Commandment: Gen 6:2; 13:10-11
    (2) Rom 2:12a,14-15
    (3) Exo 32:15-16; 34:4,28; Deu 10:4


    19.3 Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased to give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These were partly concerning worship, and in them Christ was prefigured—his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits.1 They also gave instructions about various moral duties.2 All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of the New Testament, when Jesus Christ abrogated them and took them away, for he was the true Messiah and only law-giver, and was empowered to do this by the Father.3
    (1) Heb 10:1; Col 2:16-17
    (2) 1Co 5:7; 2Co 6:17; Jude 1:23
    (3) Col 2:14,16-17; Eph 2:14-16


    19.4 To the people of Israel he also gave various judicial laws which lapsed when they ceased as a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation,1 but their principles of equity continue to be applicable in modern times.2
    (1) Luk 21:20-24; Act 6:13-14; Heb 9:18-19 with 8:7,13; 9:10; 10:1
    (2) 1Co 5:1; 9:8-10


    19.5 Obedience to the moral law remains forever binding on all, both justified persons and others,1 both in regard to the content of the law, and also to the authority of God the Creator who gave the law.2 Nor does Christ in any way dissolve this law in the Gospel, on the contrary, he strengthens our obligation [to obey the moral law].3
    (1) Mat 19:16-22; Rom 2:14-15; 3:19-20; 6:14; 7:6; 8:3; 1Ti 1:8-11; Rom 13:8-10; 1Co 7:19 with Gal 5:6; 6:15; Eph 4:25-6:4; Jas 2:11-12
    (2) Jas 2:10-11
    (3) Mat 5:17-19; Rom 3:31; 1Co 9:21; Jas 2:8
     
    #13 BobRyan, Jun 13, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 13, 2013
  14. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    You need to reread ch 1
     
    #14 Revmitchell, Jun 13, 2013
  15. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    You are the one that needs to read it! The contextual beginning point for chapter 2 begins with Romans 1:18 not Romans 1:1-17. Saved people are not the subject of discussion after verse 17.
     
    #15 The Biblicist, Jun 14, 2013
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    yes, for paul contrasts lost sinners of varying groups,the pagan, Gentile, jew!
     
    #16 Yeshua1, Jun 14, 2013
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