Featured Romans 9:13?

A very good and profound question to ponder about the mind of the Lord. I am not an expert in translation, but I have an idea that hate has to do more with the Lord's choice than our present day definition of hate based on human emotion. Neither Jacob or Esau had done anything at the point of birth for the Lord to hate either. However, God chose Jacob to carry out His purpose of the Old Testement, to bring about the proper conditions for the birth of our Savior. Jacob became the line to Jesus Christ, and Esau's decendents would become the Edomites, a line that was not chosen to bring about the birth of Christ. It is all about Jesus, and has nothing to do with our present understanding of love and hate in a worldly sense.

Beyond that, there are just certain aspects of the mind of God we will never fully understand in this life. This is a good thread, and it will be interesting to see the responses of others.

 

Probably that was prophetic and directed at Edom, the descendants of Essau, as much as at Essau himself. jmho.

It is consistent throughout the scriptures that it's actually the second born that obtains the favor of God, not the firstborn, i.e., Cain/Abel, Shem/Japheth, Ishmael/Isaac, Essau/Jacob, Leah/Rachel, Mannassah/Ephraim, First/Second Wilderness Generations, Saul/David, First Covenant/Second Covenant, First Man Adam/Second Adam (and doubtless many others):

It was not Cain's sacrifice that God had respect for, but it was Abel's; 'Cain was of the evil one, and slew his brother....Because his works were evil, and his brother`s righteous.' [1 Jn 3:12]

Shem was the elder brother of Japheth, but, 'God enlarge Japheth, And let him dwell in the tents of Shem...' [Gen 10:21 ASV & 9:27]

It was Ishmael, the firstborn, that was born after the flesh, and he persecuted Isaac, the second born, that was born after the Spirit. Isaac was the child of promise; Ishmael was cast out. [Gal 4:29]

It was said of Esau and Jacob, 'The elder shall serve the younger. Even as it is written, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.' [Ro 9:12,13]

It was not Leah his first wife that Jacob loved, but it was Rachel his second wife. [Gen 29:30,31]

It was Ephraim the younger that Jacob blessed over his older brother Mannassah and in spite of Joseph's objections. [Gen 48:13-20]

It was not the first generation of the exodus that entered into the rest of the promised land, it was the second generation; 'But your little ones, that ye said should be a prey, them will I bring in, and they shall know the land which ye have rejected.' [Nu 14:31]

It was not Saul the first king of Israel that would do all of God's will, but it was the second king David that was a man after His heart; '...Saul the son of Kish...when he had removed him, he raised up David to be their king; to whom also he bare witness and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after My heart, who shall do all My will.' [Acts 13:21,22]

It was not the first covenant of the law ( I desire mercy, and not sacrifice) that God had pleasure in, but it was the second covenant of grace; '....a better covenant, which hath been enacted upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then would no place have been sought for a second.' [Heb 8:6,7]

Consider 'the first man Adam' vs. 'the last Adam, ' ... that is not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; then that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is of heaven.' [1 Cor 15:45-47]

 

I think the Edomites, failing to be the chosen line, founded West Virginia.

 

Hate is being used in order to establish a categorical distinction. Paul is using hyperbole so that the hearer will understand the stark contrast between God's positive election of His elect as opposed to those whom He does not elect. Hate is a strong, unyielding term. It is not ambivalent. Paul did not write, "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have a felt wishy-washy".

 

That's no mystery. Esau was a stinker from conception.

No, the amazing thing is, how could he love Jacob?


I know not why God's wondrous grace
To me He hath made known,
Nor why, unworthy, God in love
Redeemed me for His own.

 

Here's the difference between a Calvinist and a noncalvinist.

The Calvinist sees that there is nothing remotely lovely in himself. Quite the opposite, he sees that he is a corrupt, repulsive stinking bag of worms—and that from the moment he is conceived. What's the difficulty in seeing that God hates one like that? The amazing and humbling thing is that God has mercy on some, and to be part of that is incomprehensibly wonderful.

The question should be, why did He love Jacob?

It's just the opposite for the noncalvinist. He thinks himself easy to love—well, at least easier to love than was Esau. So the fact that God loves him isn't so wonderful. After all, wasn't he wise and good enough to say "Yes," to God? So, the fact that God hated Esau, well, there must have been something especially loathsome about him. What could it have been?

 

You're close, but if he wasn't loved enough to be among the elect, might as well say he was hated.

 

convicted,

I'd recommend a book: The Names of God in Holy Scripture, by Andrew Jukes.

 

Nothing more than pontificating intentional misconceptions and posturing your own self-serving spin. I don't know whey God LOVES me or you, but HE does and that is a fact. Perhaps it really is as simple as the scriptures say....
God is Love.

 

I keep seeing some say they do not know why God loves them as if it shows some sense of humility. It really comes across as fake to cover their own arrogance.

 

If you are addressing me Rev, I will simply say that you read me incorrectly.

 

So why don't you tell us why God loves you ?