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Galatians 5:4 - fallen from Grace

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by The Biblicist, Jun 29, 2013.

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  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    “I marvel that you are so soon REMOVED FROM Him that called you into the GRACE of Christ.” - Gal. 1:6

    The word “removed” translates the Greek word “metatihemi.” It has the idea of departing from something to something else. The question is whether it is to be understood in the passive or middle voice. Either is grammatically possible. The passive voice might indicate that the Galatians were being deceived, bewitched by false teachers. On the other hand, Lenski and many other Greek scholars, are convinced that the middle voice is to be understood here.

    “The middle is regularly used to express what the Germans call uebertreten, to change from political party or from one philosophic school to another and thus from one religious conviction to another” - R.C.H. Lenski, The Interpretation of St. Paul’s Epistles, to the Galatians, Ephesians and Philippians. p. 34

    Either way, this term demonstrates that the Galatians are in the process of changing from one theological position (grace) to another (works). Whether it is emphasizing the deception of the false teachers (passive voice)

    O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? (Gal 3:1) or the inward change of mind (middle voice) due to such false teaching the end result is the same – they were in the process of being mentally removed from one theological position to another position.
    The theological position they were in the process of departing from is clearly identified in this passage as well as throughout the entire epistle. Christ had called them to the truth of grace through the preaching of the gospel of Christ but they were now considering “circumcision” and other works of the law as necessary for justification before God. In other words they had begun by the “hearing of faith” but now they are being convinced that they must be “made perfect by the flesh” (Gal. 3:3).

    Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? (Gal 3:3)

    How do we know that they are in the process of being removed from grace as a theological position unto works rather than being removed from the state of grace (position) or the experience of grace (power) unto a lost condition? Those who deny eternal security argue that the Galatians are in danger of losing their state or experience of grace and thus in the process of becoming lost.

    First, we know this because the words “ANOTHER gospel” are placed in direct contrast to the words “the grace of Christ” (v. 7). This infers that the phrase “the grace of Christ” is definitive of the true gospel because it is in contrast to the words “another gospel.” Why choose this particular phrase “the grace of Christ” to represent the true gospel? He is defining the true gospel by its primary theological truth – “grace.” It should be obvious that the words “another gospel” do not refer to a state or an experience but rather to the primary expression of theological error. That error is the addition of “justification by works” to the gospel of Christ. Therefore the phrase “the grace of Christ” is intended to express the primary theological truth of the gospel and thus later Paul repeatedly refers to it as “the truth” of the gospel.

    To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you. (Gal 2:5)

    But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? (Gal 2:14)

    O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? (Gal 3:1)

    Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? (Gal 5:7)


    Second, we know this because in the Greek text, the word translated “grace” is found in what grammarians call the anarthous construct. This simply means that it is without the definite article (what we know in English as the word “the”). Dana and Mantey make this comment upon such a construction in the Greek Grammar:

    “Sometimes with a noun which the context proves to be definite the article is not used. This places stress upon the qualitative aspect of the noun rather than its mere identity.” - A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament, p. 149

    Paul’s grammatical intent is to emphasize the THEOLOGICAL truth of grace as the chief characteristic of His gospel.

    Throughout this epistle it is this “truth” of the gospel that is being contrasted to the chief characteristic of the false gospel – works.

    Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. (Gal. 2:16)

    This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? (Gal 3:2)

    He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? (Gal 3:5)

    Third, we know this because when Paul identifies the very point of their departure he chooses these words - “ye have fallen FROM GRACE.” One cannot fall from “undeserved favor” as that is an oxymoron (grace can never be deserved and to fall would only qualify you for “grace”).

    Fourth, we know this because when Paul considers the very error that some were persuading them to add to the gospel, he says, “I do not frustrate the grace of God” (Gal. 1:21). It was their theological error of justification by works that frustrated the truth of justification by grace.

    Fifth, another reason that we know this was a theological issue rather than experiential is because Paul pinpoints the exact means responsible for their fall or departure from grace. It was in the area of verbal communication that promoted their fall from grace:

    “....PREACH any other gospel...than that which we have PREACHED...If any man PREACH....than that ye have RECEIVED.....the gospel which was PREACHED of me...For I neither RECEIVED it....neither was I TAUGHT it....that I might PREACH...” - Gal. 1:8,9,11,12,16

    “This PERSUASION cometh not of him that calleth you” (Gal. 5:8).

    “Who hath bewitched you.....” - Gal. 3:1

    These verses identify the realm in which the fall occurred as the area of the mind rather than the state or salvation experience of the Galatians. The departure was due to “persuasion” and “teaching” and “preaching” of a false gospel. They had been “bewitched” by false teaching and they had fallen from grace as their theological position and belief.
    Now there is a vast difference between the truth of justification and the experiential entrance into the state of justification. The first is THEOLOGICAL while the latter is POSITIONAL. The first is the CAUSE while the second is the CONSEQUENCE.
    Paul’s choice of terms (preach, teach, receive, truth of the gospel, persuasion, bewitched, hearing) make it clear that what he has in mind is a departure from grace as a theological truth (revealed as justification by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone) rather then a departure from the state or experience of justification. Paul is concerned with a doctrinal change going on in the churches of Galatia. -“This PERSUASION cometh not of him that calleth you” (Gal. 5:8). This point is essential in order to grasp the real issue among the Galatians and is essential to properly interpret the following words.
     
    #1 The Biblicist, Jun 29, 2013
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Your much imagined doctrine that the "Saved state" is "Severed from Christ and fallen from Grace" has no Bible support but your own hopeful desire to rescue the OSAS of Calvinism.

    There is no Bible support for that at all.

    Rather - the Bible says there is NO salvation apart from Christ - just when Calvinism's OSAS would wish us to "imagine" that the saved state is "SEVERED from Christ - FALLEN from Grace".

    Notice that in Gal 5 - Paul does not offer this as a state of salvation.

    The only thing you get from the context is that the way they lost salvation was to embrace false doctrine. You uphold that point as if it rescues Calvinism's OSAS -- it does not.


    Severed from Christ -- is lost.

    John 15:
    2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;
    and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
    3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
    4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself,
    unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
    5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit;
    for without Me you can do nothing.
    6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered;
    and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
    7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire,
    and it shall be done for you.
    8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #2 BobRyan, Jun 29, 2013
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Galatians 5

    King James Version (KJV)

    5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
    2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
    3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
    4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
    5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
    6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
    7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
    8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.
    9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

    The contrast is between obeying the truth, joined to Christ, under Grace, in the hope of righteousness by faith ---- vs the lost state - severed from Christ, fallen from Grace, Christ is of no effect for you, leavened with sin, under law - not grace -- lost.

    No longer joined to Christ - no longer as the bride of Christ.

    NKJV

    4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

    NASB

    . 4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace


    All of these define and describe the lost state -

    Fallen from Grace
    Severed from Christ
    estranged from Christ
    Christ has become of no effect unto you

    If such a one is saved apart from Christ - then they are their own savior.

    Oh what lengths to go in utter imagination to defend Calvinist OSAS.

    in Christ,
    Bob
     
    #3 BobRyan, Jun 29, 2013
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  4. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    As I thought, you cannot respond to my exposition but merely repeat a distorted perverted statement about my views. I don't believe anything you are accusing me and I should be the one to know what I believe and what I don't.

    Notice the OP and try to respond to it not something else.
     
    #4 The Biblicist, Jun 29, 2013
  5. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    you think by merely asserting a view makes it true? That is all you have done above. I have provided contextual based evidences that your assertion is nothing more than that = an assertion unfounded, without a shred of contextual based evidence.
     
    #5 The Biblicist, Jun 29, 2013
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Your argument is "with the text" my posts quote the text itself and this is all it takes to give rise to your objections.

    Surely you don't think we would fail to "notice".

    =========================

    5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again (do not return to your former lost state) with the yoke of bondage.
    2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. (as is the case with all the lost)
    3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
    4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
    5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
    6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
    7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
    8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.
    9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

    The contrast is between obeying the truth, joined to Christ, under Grace, in the hope of righteousness by faith ---- vs the lost state - severed from Christ, fallen from Grace, Christ is of no effect for you, leavened with sin, under law - not grace -- lost.

    No longer joined to Christ - no longer as the bride of Christ.

    NKJV

    4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

    NASB

    . 4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace


    All of these define and describe the lost state -

    Fallen from Grace
    Severed from Christ
    estranged from Christ
    Christ has become of no effect unto you

    If such a one is saved apart from Christ - then they are their own savior.

    Oh what lengths to go in utter imagination to defend Calvinist OSAS.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #6 BobRyan, Jun 29, 2013
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  7. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Take up my exposition and evidences and point out one by one why they are contextually inaccurate. I don't make simple assertions like you do, but base my assertions based upon the contextual and grammatical evidences, none of which you have even addressed. Your proof texts can be just as easily interpeted my way as your way. There are other contextual evidences that prove your way is false.
     
    #7 The Biblicist, Jun 29, 2013
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Your circular argument is that "since we can never accept a denial of OSAS then becoming lost cannot happen by accepting false doctrine. Since Paul says they have accepted false doctrine - he cannot be serious about saying they have actually been severed from Christ, or fallen from Grace".

    You simply offer yet another circular argument.

    You have stated that fallen from Grace - severed from Christ- is not a condition of the lost in Gal 5:4 but of the saved who have recently accpeted false doctrine - but remain saved because this is a valid state for the saved.
     
    #8 BobRyan, Jun 29, 2013
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Your circular argument is that "since we can never accept a denial of OSAS then becoming lost cannot happen by accepting false doctrine. Since Paul says they have accepted false doctrine - he cannot be serious about saying they have actually been severed from Christ, or fallen from Grace".

    You simply offer yet another circular argument.

    You have stated that fallen from Grace - severed from Christ- is not a condition of the lost in Gal 5:4 but of the saved who have recently accpeted false doctrine - but remain saved because this is a valid state for the saved.
     
    #9 BobRyan, Jun 29, 2013
  10. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Deal with the OP. In the OP I give five detailed contextual based reasons why your interpretation of Gal. 5:4 is wrong. Deal with them if you dare rather than ignoring them and just asserting your view.
     
    #10 The Biblicist, Jun 29, 2013
  11. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Very well - your OP - point 1.

    Sadly - you shot your entire argument in the head with your OP first point.

    In Gal 1:6-11 Paul does NOT argue that what we have is two different doctrines - one being less value to the saints than another - but both being valid in terms of remaining a saint.

    INSTEAD of that Paul argues that the one is a false gospel and that even if it is an Apostle or an "ANGEL FROM HEAVEN - let him be ACCURSED".

    In the case of 1Cor 3 you have an issue in doctrine/teaching/quality where some doctrine is better than others - but in Gal 1:6-11 it is outright condemnation, false gospel and ACCURSED (even if held by an ANGEL in HEAVEN) to go one of these directions as opposed to another.

    There is no "Salvation while accursed and holding to a false gospel' being taught in Gal 1.

    Thus your argument dies right out of the gate. OP. Point 1.

    And what is even more fatal - is that you are bringing this up in relation to Gal 5:4 so that the "accursed" are also "fallen from Grace" and "severed from Christ".

    you have buried your own argument.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #11 BobRyan, Jun 29, 2013
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  12. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Read more carefully. He is not talking about those deceived but those preaching the false gospel. The Galatians received the right gospel at their salvation. These false teachers have come along and preached the SDA gospel of justification by works and "bewitched" them or led them astray not from their salvation experience or position in Christ but from their understanding of "the truth" of the gospel "of grace."
     
    #12 The Biblicist, Jun 29, 2013
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Sadly - you shot your entire argument in the head with your OP first point.

    In Gal 1:6-11 Paul does NOT argue that what we have is two different doctrines - one being less value to the saints than another - but both being valid in terms of remaining a saint.

    INSTEAD of that Paul argues that the one is a false gospel and that even if it is an Apostle or an "ANGEL FROM HEAVEN - let him be ACCURSED".

    In the case of 1Cor 3 you have an issue in doctrine/teaching/quality where some doctrine is better than others - but in Gal 1:6-11 it is outright condemnation, false gospel and ACCURSED (even if held by an ANGEL in HEAVEN) to go one of these directions as opposed to another.

    There is no "Salvation while accursed and holding to a false gospel' being taught in Gal 1.

    Thus your argument dies right out of the gate. OP. Point 1.

    And what is even more fatal - is that you are bringing this up in relation to Gal 5:4 so that the "accursed" are also "fallen from Grace" and "severed from Christ".

    you have buried your own argument.


    You are the one who chose to link Galatians 1 with Galatians 5.

    Galatians 1 those who are accursed for teaching the false gospel.

    Gal 5 those who are then "severed from Christ" and "Fallen From Grace" who turn from the real Gospel - to the false accursed Gospel of Gal 1:6-11.

    As stated above - you fully buried your own argument with your first point.

    Both examples are not of a "Saved state" but of the lost state.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #13 BobRyan, Jul 1, 2013
  14. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    The point of any discussion is the willingness of both sides to be objective and fair with the evidence. You have shown a willingness for neither and therefore it is an excerise of futility to even engage you in any discussion.

    I introduced Galatians one to prove that the effective change was intellectually due to false preaching/teaching rather than a change of spiritual condition. However, you take my words and twist them to something completley different than my stated intentions. That indicates no willingness on your part to be either fair or objective with the words of an opponent or with the Biblical evidence.
     
    #14 The Biblicist, Jul 1, 2013
  15. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    In my previous post I was merely stating the obvious.

    I am happy to leave it as an "exercise for the reader" - to "notice".

    You are the one who chose to link Galatians 1 with Galatians 5.

    Galatians 1 those who are accursed for teaching the false gospel.

    Gal 5 those who are then "severed from Christ" and "Fallen From Grace" who turn from the real Gospel - to the false accursed Gospel of Gal 1:6-11.

    As stated above - you fully buried your own argument with your first point.

    Both examples are not of a "Saved state" but of the lost state.
     
    #15 BobRyan, Jul 1, 2013
  16. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    One of [two] things must be true about you and this response.

    (1) you did not read or understand my response
    (2) you are intentionally ignoring the context of my linking Gal 1 with Gal. 5

    again, I will repeat the context of my linkage between Gal 1 with Gal. 5 was to demonstrate the basis for falling from grace was due to false teaching (Gal. 1).

    However, you twist my language jerk it out its context and charge me with your own purpose of linking Gal. 1 with Gal. 5. Try being honest with the words and intentions of your opponents instead of twisting them perversly to make it appear it supports your own interpreted designs for linking Gal 1 to Gal 5. Honesty is a virture.
     
    #16 The Biblicist, Jul 1, 2013
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  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Again I will point out that both of us agree that false doctrine, a false gospel as defined in Gal 1 is what was being accepted in Gal 5. And Paul argued that to switch from faith/acceptance/belief in the real Gospel - to a faith/acceptance/belief in a false Gospel is to be "SEVERED" from Christ - is to be "FALLEN" from Grace.

    Your argument is that making such a switch cannot really be loss of salvation...err...umm.. because "it just can't".

    You come up with an internal circular argument that this switch to a false gospel does not result in the loss of salvation because salvation cannot be lost and Paul would not teach it.

    Your use of that circular argument is much more apparent than you appear to have at first supposed.

    But there is no such text in all of scripture (certainly not in the book of Galatians) claiming that "fallen from Grace" and "Severed from Christ" is one of the possible states for a saved saint. It is not possible to be s saved saint AND to be "SEVERED" from Christ - unless you can manufacture salvation apart from Christ.

    Obviously.

    And there is no text in scripture saying that acceptance of false doctrine can never result in being "SEVERED" from Christ - lost.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #17 BobRyan, Jul 1, 2013
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  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    the Apopstle paul message/point to the galatians wasthat IF a sinner tries to get saved thru keeping the Law, by self effort and works, THAT would be falling from grace, NOT saying saved person got lost, but that the saved person is now working against the very grace that saved Him, so quite trying to keep law, and live by the Grace of God!

    A saved person needs to keep walking in the Spirit, not trying to keep live by the Law in order to get more saved, kept saved , as many like the SDA do to day!
     
    #18 Yeshua1, Jul 2, 2013
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