Featured The Sabbath was not Changed

What are you getting at here BobRyan? Do you think we should keep the Sabbath as the Jews keep it? Do you think our salvation is dependent on keeping the sabbath day? Help me to understand what your actual motivation here is... do you feel the need to keep the sabbath? If so, what is motivating this belief? Do you feel a duty and obligation to do it or are you doing it of a heart of love for God? And either way, why do you feel the need to inflict your burden on others? Why come here and so adamantly define in legal terms what the sabbath is?

 

Irregardless isn't a real word. You mean regardless. I am required by my wife to correct this error whenever I encounter it throughout my life - it is a pet pieve of hers.

Ok this is actually getting mind numbing.

BobRyan -- the Sabbath is Saturday
Biblicist -- no, you're wrong... it could be any 7th day
BobRyan -- how about Saturday?
Biblicist -- NO! Any 7th day!
BobRyan -- I select Saturday because that is the 7th day
Biblicist -- NO! It has to be any given 7th day, but you are wrong to say Saturday.
BobRyan - I think it's Saturday

It's ridiculous. Saturday is a 7th day... so the sabbath can be Saturday. If I start counting on Tuesday, then Monday is the 7th day. But by convention (probably because of the creation week) we all count 7 days and we call the first day Sunday and the 7th day Saturday.

None of the scriptures you listed say the sabbath has changed to the first day of the week. In fact, the Hebrews 4 passage context is of the sabbath being the 7th day.

These talk about meeting on the first day, tithing on the first day, but none of them mention no work. Furthermore that it was Paul's practice to go daily to the temple.

It was Constantine who changed the "sabbath" from Saturday to Sunday because in Rome, the sun god (from which we get "sun day") was the most revered in the Babylonian Mystery religions, and he was so busy compromising Christianity with pagan traditions that he changed it to the first day to give it the prestige in the pagan's eyes of being on the Sun(gods)day.

Does this mean we should all tell our pastors to change our worship services to Saturday? No. It doesn't actually matter what day. Church isn't the walls and building and pews and pastor... church is the body of believers who love God and each other. We can do that each and every day. We can gather for fellowship and encouragement at any time.

 

You are misrepresenting me Guppy! Look at the last phrase above that says "it could be any 7th day"! Saturday? Yes, Sunday? Yes! Monday? Yes.

That is my point - any pattern of Seven days, six preceding and following and the Seventh is the Sabbath.

The Jewish application, which is a good application, was the seventh day "of the week" - that is fine! However, that is not the post-cross application.

In the Messanic feasts there were FIXED DATE Sabbaths and beginning with the day of resurrection (Psalm 118:24; Acts 4:10-11) there is a FIXED DAY Sabbath - the "first day OF THE WEEK" - Sunday.

 

If keeping the law is not a means of earning salvation, then why is keeping the law what matters? What does it matter for? Is there something better than salvation?

Rom 3:31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.​

The key phrase here is "through faith." The law is established "through faith." Not by keeping the law by works. It seems like you are conflating the two. You are saying "keep the law with your works thereby establishing the law through works." But the law is not established in Christ through works. The law is established through faith. For in that the covenant of faith is found in the law. The very next verse says:

Rom 4:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found?
2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
3 For what does the Scripture say? "ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS."

Gal 4:21 Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the law?
22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman.
23 But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise.
24 This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar.
28 And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise.
30 But what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN."
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.​

What Paul is saying is that the law contains the record of God's promise to Abraham - a covenant whereby all who have the same faith as Abraham (remember the Law was not given for another 430 years, and so had nothing to do with the covenant of faith) could inherit the promise.

So let me ask another way - since you and I agree that you cannot earn salvation by works, it is only by faith - what benefit is works? Since the law has no effect on salvation by faith (though faith certainly has a huge impact on The Law) what purpose and effect does following The Law and the commandments have in the life of the Christian?

 

Here is the bottom line:

1. The Sabbath Law does not RESTRICT the Sabbath to the seventh day "of the week"

2. The Sabbath law CANNOT be restricted to the Seventh day "of the week" or else God would be condemned as violating it, as he applies it to FIXED DATES and other days of the week. He applies it to other periods than 24 hours - Lev. 23-25.

3. Hence, the proper interpretation of the Sabbath Law must be BROAD enough to incorporate all APPLICATIONS by God Himself. This denies, repudiates any RESTRICTION of the Sabbath Law to the seventh day "of the week.

4. However, application to the seventh day "of the week" does not violate the Sabbath Law as it is BROAD enough to INCLUDE that application.

5. The "week" is a by product of the seven Creation days and our division into weeks must be derived from these seven days at the beginning BECAUSE neither the lunar or solar year is divisble by seven and so the only explanation for divisions into "weeks" is the creation seven days.

6. There had to be a practical weekly application of the Sabbath that was consistent prior to the cross and all evidence points to the fact that at least among the Jews the weekly sabbath was their seventh day "of the week" or Saturday.

7. God changed the weekly day of Sabbath keeping from the Jewish seventh day "of the week" to the Christian resurrection day or "first day of the week" (Psa. 118:24/Acts 4:10-11/Heb. 4:9-10; Rev. 1:10; Acts 2:1; 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:1-2; John 20)

8. The first day "of the week" Christian Sabbath is the "Lord's day" (Rev. 1:10) and commemorates a greater and better work than the original but now sin cursed creation - the work of redemption and a new sinless heaven and earth yet to come. This is preciselywhy in all the Sabbath days that charaterize the Messianic Feasts in Leviticus 23 such days fall on the 1st, 8th, 15th, 22nd, 50th day (after 7 regular sabbaths or 49 days) 50th year (after 7 regular Sabbath years or 49 years).

9. All Mosaic Sabbatical laws have been abolished (Col. 2:16) and the "Lord's Day" (Rev. 1:10) is a day set apart for the Lord's House, to observe the Lord's Supper and the Lord's Worship, and is thus a day or rejoicing and gladness as a testimony of Christ's resurrection to the world - Psa. 118:24.

10. It is the common day of worship from the first century until Constantine and Constantine did not invent it but simply followed the common practice and made it a STATE holiday as he made Catholicism a STATE church.

 

I'm not Baptist.

I agree.

OOoooOoo! Binding! The Baptists do love bondage! To what are we in bondange to and how does it apply? What is the penalty for failing to observe the Sabbath for a Christian?

He also said not to eat pork, and that women should be banished while on their period - since I love bacon, this would really be disappointing for me... and how many of us banish our wives during their period?

No, I completely agree... Saturday is the 7th day of the week. You can definitely celebrate sabbath on Saturday.

Keep reading: Act 17:16 Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.
17 Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.

 

You can agree without agreeing the Sabbath Law restricts it to any particular day "of the week." I agree that the Jewish application was Saturday but that does not mean the Sabbath Law restricted it to Saturday.

Again, here are the irrefutable facts:


1. The Sabbath Law does not RESTRICT the Sabbath to the seventh day "of the week"

2. The Sabbath law CANNOT be restricted to the Seventh day "of the week" or else God would be condemned as violating it, as he applies it to FIXED DATES and other days of the week. He applies it to other periods than 24 hours - Lev. 23-25.

3. Hence, the proper interpretation of the Sabbath Law must be BROAD enough to incorporate all APPLICATIONS by God Himself. This denies, repudiates any RESTRICTION of the Sabbath Law to the seventh day "of the week.

4. However, application to the seventh day "of the week" does not violate the Sabbath Law as it is BROAD enough to INCLUDE that application.

5. The "week" is a by product of the seven Creation days and our division into weeks must be derived from these seven days at the beginning BECAUSE neither the lunar or solar year is divisble by seven and so the only explanation for divisions into "weeks" is the creation seven days.

6. There had to be a practical weekly application of the Sabbath that was consistent prior to the cross and all evidence points to the fact that at least among the Jews the weekly sabbath was their seventh day "of the week" or Saturday.

7. God changed the weekly day of Sabbath keeping from the Jewish seventh day "of the week" to the Christian resurrection day or "first day of the week" (Psa. 118:24/Acts 4:10-11/Heb. 4:9-10; Rev. 1:10; Acts 2:1; 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:1-2; John 20)

8. The first day "of the week" Christian Sabbath is the "Lord's day" (Rev. 1:10) and commemorates a greater and better work than the original but now sin cursed creation - the work of redemption and a new sinless heaven and earth yet to come. This is preciselywhy in all the Sabbath days that charaterize the Messianic Feasts in Leviticus 23 such days fall on the 1st, 8th, 15th, 22nd, 50th day (after 7 regular sabbaths or 49 days) 50th year (after 7 regular Sabbath years or 49 years).

9. All Mosaic Sabbatical laws have been abolished (Col. 2:16) and the "Lord's Day" (Rev. 1:10) is a day set apart for the Lord's House, to observe the Lord's Supper and the Lord's Worship, and is thus a day or rejoicing and gladness as a testimony of Christ's resurrection to the world - Psa. 118:24.

10. It is the common day of worship from the first century until Constantine and Constantine did not invent it but simply followed the common practice and made it a STATE holiday as he made Catholicism a STATE church.

 

There is not one text that teaches the church ever met on Saturday to worship, tithe, observe the Lord's Supper or anything else.

However, the New Testament is clear that the Holy Spirit chose the first day of the week to empower the first worship service in Acts 2:1; observe the Lord's supper in Acts 20:7; save up a special offering - 1 Cor. 16:1-2 and call it "The Lord's day" - Rev. 1:10.

Wrong again! Psa. 118:24/Acts 4:10-11; Mk. 16:9; Heb. 4:9-10; Rev. 1:10;

Nor is it ever edited to say "remember the seventh day OF THE WEEK" to keep it holy.

Paul was not a "church" but a church sent missionary and he went first to the Jews and they met together on their Sabbath which He says under Christ is abolished (Col. 2:16).

The Sabbath law does not say that but neither does it say "the seventh day OF THE WEEK". He had the right to establish the practical application of the Sabbath among the Jews any day He wished and it was the seventh day "of the week" just as he has the right to establish the practical application of the SAbbath among the Christians any day He wished and it was the "first day of the week." The Sabbath Law is broadly sufficient to include both as well as FIXED DATES (Lev. 23) and extended days (Lev. 25).

 

The church had no existence in Isaiah 66 and Leviticus 23. Acts 15 does not state anywhere that the church met for worship. You are confusing a missionary reaching out to lost jews when they met with the church conducting worship services.

First don't speak for me by saying "I think we both know that." For if I agreed with that perverted thinking I would not be taking the other side would I???

Second, Pentecost is set up exactly as the 50th year of Jubilee is set up. The 50th year Jubillee is the FIRST YEAR in the new week of years and follows seven REGULAR Sabbath years which each conclude a week of years. Likewise, Pentecost is the 50th day after seven regular Sabbaths starting from the first regular Sabbath after Passover. And yes, I disagree with your interpretation of these seven sabbaths and their starting point.

First, this is a GENTILE church and is on Roman Time.

Second, the Christian Sabbath is not under the Mosaic Sabbath Legislative restrictions but as the Psalmist says it is a day to "rejoice and be glad in" - Psalm 118:24

Paul refers to the "first day of the week" as a POINT OF GENERAL REFERENCE that all members of the Church at Corinth identified with just as it is in Acts 20:7 - the worship day. The Greek term translated "store" is the same Greek term used in Malichi 3:10 for "store" house and refers to the house of God and when they came to the house of God to bring their tithes and offerings.

John is not referring to "the day of the Lord" as the Greek words for that phrase are unified and distinctly different then the terms found in Revelation 1:10. John is using the same phrase that Paul uses in 1 Cor. 11:20 that refers to what BELONGS TO JESUS CHRIST. In 1 Cor. 11:20 the Supper is HIS SUPPER - "the Lord's Supper" and in Rev. 1:10 this day is HIS DAY - "the Lord's Day." His day is the day of the fourth commandment -the Sabbath day which is uniformly used by John and all subsequent Christians for the resurrection of day of Christ:

1. Ignatius pastor of Antioch and companion of the Apostles in about A.D. 70 says,

And after the observance of the Sabbath, let every friend of Christ keep the Lord’s Day as a festival, the resurrection day, the queen and chief of all the days [of the week]. Looking forward to this, the prophet declared, “To the end, for the eighth day,” on which our life both sprang up again, and the victory over death was obtained in Christ… Roberts, Alexander and Donaldson, James Editors, The Ante-Nicene Father’s, “Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians” Vol. I, p. 63

2. Theopelus in A.D. 167 says,

Both custom and reason challenge from us that we should honor the Lord’s Day, seeing it was in that day, our Lord Jesus Christ, completed His resurrection from the dead.


3. Dionysisus in A.D. 170 says,

We passed this holy Lord’s day in which we read your letter, from the constant reading of which we shall be able to draw admonition.


4. Dynidions in A.D. 170 says,

We celebrate only the Lord’s Day


5. Clement a Christian in A.D. 192 says that a Christian:

According to the commandment of the Gospel, observes the Lord’s Day, thereby glorifying the resurrection


6. Clement of Alexandria in A.D. 194 says,

He, in fulfillment of the precept, according to the gospel, keeps the Lord’s Day, glorifying the Lord’s resurrection in himself.


7. Cyprian, Bishop of Carthage in A.D. 250 says,

The eighth day, that is, the first day after the Sabbath is the Lord’s Day.

8. The Apostolic Constitutions written about 250 A.D. says,

On the day of our Lord’s resurrection, which is the Lord’s Day, meet more diligently.


9. Anatolius in about A.D. 250 says,

The solemn festival of the resurrection of the Lord can only be celebrated only on the Lord’s Day.


10. Anatolius, Bishop of Laodicea in Asia Minor in about A.D. 270 says,

On regard for the Lord’s resurrection which took place on the Lord’s Day will lead us to celebrate it.

11. Peter Bishop of Alexanderia in Egypt about A.D. 306 says,

But the Lord’s Day we celebrate as a day of joy because on it he rose from the dead.


I

 

repeat of last post

 

Any practical application of a weekly Sabbath had to begin at some given point.

You wish that were the case. My argument is based strictly upon contextual evidence and doctrinal correctness with that evidence and you know it. To prove my point, please site any record of the fourth commandment containing the words "of the week"? If you cannot then you cannot insist on reading them into it to sustain what can only be your PERSONAL opinion since no scripture says that.

The millennium is regarded as a "new" earth because of transformed features. Whether you believe in a seventh millennium or literal reign of Christ on this earth or not is not my concern. I do.