Featured For amillenial brothers....thoughts?

Having left behind Dispensational error...I thought by default I must then be Amillennial.
Then I found out that some of the men I was reading were in fact postmillennial. I thought of myself as Optimistic Amillennial in that the gospel always accomplishes God's purpose in time.

Here is a short article on this in between position as I continue to look into this issue. What are your thoughts and scriptures that speak to this:thumbs:

PESSIMISM AND AMILLENNIALISM

Amillennialism October 30, 2013 Comments: 3


PMT 2013-020 by Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr.

Pessimism OptimismSome amillennialists complain that postmillennialists wrongly categorize them as “pessimistic.” They generally reject this evaluation for two reasons: (1) It is negative sounding in itself, and (2) it overlooks the fact that they argue that ultimately Christ and his people win the victory at the end of history. Still other amillennialists deny this designation because they call themselves “optimistic amillennialists.”

What do we mean by our categorization of amillennialism as “pessimistic”?

Obviously all evangelical eschatological perspectives are ultimately optimistic: Christ does lead his people to victory in saving them from their sins, resurrecting them from the dead, and establishing them in righteousness in the eternal order. These issues are not debated among evangelicals: Christianity is of glorious, eternal consequence. But neither are they relevant to debate between the millennial views.

Historically amillennialism has tended to be pessimistic in terms of the question of widespread, long-lasting cultural success for the Christian faith in time and on earth. That is, regarding these matters:

First, as a system of gospel proclamation amillennialism teaches that the gospel of Christ will not exercise any majority influence in the world before Christ’s return. They allow that Christianity may enjoy flashes of revival and spurts of growth. Yet, by its very nature the amillennial system cannot allow that Christianity will become the dominant feature of human society and culture.



DVD debate between Amillennialist Richard Gaffin and Postmillennialist Kenneth Gentry
“Amillennialism v. Postmillennialism“




Second, as a system of historical understanding amillennialism, in fact, holds the Bible teaches there are prophetically determined, irresistible trends downward toward chaos in the outworking and development of history. Though some amillennialists understand the great tribulation in the Olivet Discourse as referring (correctly) to the Jewish War and the AD 70 destruction of the temple, their system necessarily demands a prophetically-determined collapse of society in history.

Third, as a system for the promotion of Christian discipleship amillennialism dissuades the Church from anticipating and laboring for wide-scale success in influencing the world for Christ during this age. In fact, this distinguishes amillennialism and postmillennialism.

Regarding the question of so-called “optimistic amillennialists,” it seems to me that the verses an amillennialist would use to underscore his optimism are those that endorse a postmillennial perspective. Unless, of course, he is optimistic on grounds other than direct biblical revelation. Therefore, he should come out of the closet and be a postmillennialist.

 

I know all four main positions.All try to cover the biblical teaching.

I am okay with whatever God has purposed to do.

Right now I have not seen any slam dunk arguments saying postmill is wrong.

Some of the better discussions center on Isa 65-66, and their relation to second pet3.

you cannot show that from scripture, where does it say the reign is on earth


8 He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth17 His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.
18 Blessed be the Lord God, the God of Israel, who only doeth wondrous things.

19 And blessed be his glorious name for ever: and let the whole earth be filled with his glory; Amen, and Amen.

27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

28 For the kingdom is the Lord's: and he is the governor among the nations.

29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.

30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

 

I have read some of his books and there is scriptural support for the teaching.
he seems to be a nice person. I have only asked him a few questions on facebook...

I hope to visit his church a few times in this upcoming year, as well as Gary Demar.

DHK...if you compile a list of questions I will ask them when I see him face to face.....I have heard him about 20 times on sermonaudio,and follow him as a facebook friend.

Some of the Presbyterians and other reformed persons drift toward theonomy, so I am always cautious with that as they can drift over the line.

 

I have seen Dr.ice take a few lumps from these men

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3WrtZ_H7OU&list=PLDiRnTTAyp8xH8Wb-tK3LCmVOllSSUQMq

this link is part of a series on youtube...we can all listen and learn the differences.

 

DHK

years ago my wife and I went to these week long family bible conferences...morning prayer...breakfast...two morning messages..lunch, activites and games in the afternoon...evening message...all week long.

There were times to mingle with Presbyterians ...and usually one of the 5 speakers would be a Presbyterian. they knew they believed different from the RB's so the topics assigned to them were neutral.

the messages were excellent ...I believe they are Christians...I do not agree on their biblical view of the Covenant continuity, or ecclesiology.

They are very close on everything else. I am closer to a solid biblical Presbyterian, than many an evangelical.

If you listened to sermon links...I would post some for you...if others were curious....listen to any sermon by Sinclair Ferguson, David Silversides, Bill Shishko...Ted Donnely....there are many more

 

The article makes some personal attacks on Him ...even though that is what he was being accused of....he is not a heretic. the article is trying to put words in his mouth.

 

Like I said I thought I was an optimistic Amill...based on one section of scripture;

14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.


This tells me that God wants us to be faithful and accurate in speaking with people and the results belong to Him and I am sure all Christians who know scripture agree on this.

What I was challenged by was the idea that many of the postmill men were getting much more specific with applying many portions of scripture to both historical events from the first century....and also teaching more about what our participation in the Kingdom right now should be.

I read and seek to obey any revealed responsibility that I come across.

Amill...seem more general where postmill are looking for action in this present world.

 

Yes...exactly. At first I was almost offended when I read some of the terms.I tried to set aside my previous views and read it fresh but somewhat skeptical. I balance it by trying to re-read some amill sources...it is a work in progress.

Dispensational men do not seem to offer a valid challenge.