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Featured Take heed brethren!!!

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by steaver, May 6, 2015.

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  1. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    A question for our Calvinist friends; Why do you think the Holy Spirit waste so much written Word warning folks they better be sure to believe?

    Hebrews 3...

    Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,

    Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

    When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.

    Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.

    So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

    Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God

    But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

    For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

    While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

    For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses

    But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness

    And to whom sware he that they should no.t enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?

    So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief .

    (According to Calvinism, so what? Nothing they could do about being in unbelief anyhow)

    As a Calvinist, wouldn't you have to end up with an attitude of apathy, simply ignoring all of these scriptures that warn of unbelief and all the pleas for belief?
     
    #1 steaver, May 6, 2015
  2. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    1 For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
    2 and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
    3 and did all eat the same spiritual food;
    4 and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of a spiritual rock that followed them: and the rock was Christ.
    5 Howbeit with most of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
    6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
    7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
    8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
    9 Neither let us make trial of the Lord, as some of them made trial, and perished by the serpents.
    10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them murmured, and perished by the destroyer.
    11 Now these things happened unto them by way of example; and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.
    12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. 1 Cor 10

    The redeemed, heavenly born, child of God is capable of doing everything in The Book he's admonished to take heed NOT to do. And that includes unbelief. It's just that simple.
     
    #2 kyredneck, May 6, 2015
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  3. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Really? So a born again believer can freely choose to not believe in Jesus Christ?
     
    #3 steaver, May 6, 2015
  4. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    A 'born again believer' can fall into the sin of unbelief. He can make shipwreck of the faith.
     
    #4 kyredneck, May 6, 2015
  5. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    That's not what I asked. I cannot stop believing in that which I have personal knowledge of is an absolute truth. I personally know Jesus Christ for He lives in me. How is it you say I could stop believing in Jesus Christ?
     
    #5 steaver, May 6, 2015
  6. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God

    Is this addressed to the unregenerate?
     
    #6 kyredneck, May 6, 2015
  7. Inspector Javert

    Inspector Javert Active Member

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    I'm not trying to speak for KY per se....

    but, in interest of speaking for him....;)

    What he means about making shipwreck of one's salvation or belief in Christ is not what you would mean by that I think.
    If I understand his Theology....(and I may not).
    Abandoning/losing/making "shipwreck" of one's faith is not synonymous with going from a regenerate to an unregenerate status, but missing out on/ abandoning the Christian walk. And so losing one's earthly blessing of discipleship.

    If I'm mistaken...of course, KY is more than right to correct me, but, I think you guys are going to talk past each other until you understand that....

    Of course, once you do....you'll talk past one another anyway...but it is what it is. :thumbsup:
     
    #7 Inspector Javert, May 6, 2015
  8. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Well that is what I was trying to point out to his response. The OP is a passage speaking of salvation, KY jumped over to Christian sanctification.
     
    #8 steaver, May 6, 2015
  9. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    The OP passage is on salvation.....
     
    #9 steaver, May 6, 2015
  10. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Excellent. Right on spot. The consequences for the 'regenerate unbeliever' are temporal, not eternal.
     
    #10 kyredneck, May 6, 2015
  11. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    The OP is about salvation, stay on point......
     
    #11 steaver, May 6, 2015
  12. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Well, see, you and I will probably 'talk past each other' in reference to 'salvation'. You evangelicals apply always eternal consequences to 'saved' and 'lost' when there are some that do not 'automatically' do so.

    ...and it IS on point. Are you referring to the eternal aspect of our salvation or the temporal aspect?
     
    #12 kyredneck, May 6, 2015
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  13. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    The passage is pretty crystal clear. Do you think those who fell in the desert in unbelief are actually saved?
     
    #13 steaver, May 6, 2015
  14. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    By type, they were ALL redeemed with a strong hand by Jehovah from the Land of Bondage.
     
    #14 kyredneck, May 6, 2015
  15. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Yea, the writer is addressing The Church. Those who had made the confession of faith (3:1).
     
    #15 kyredneck, May 6, 2015
  16. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Still doesn't answer the question. Did those who fell in unbelief still get saved?
     
    #16 steaver, May 6, 2015
  17. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Did the dude in 1 Cor 5:5 "still get saved"?
     
    #17 kyredneck, May 6, 2015
  18. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    And Jehovah said unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed not in me, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this assembly into the land which I have given them. Nu 20:12

    Did Moses and Aaron "still get saved"?
     
    #18 kyredneck, May 6, 2015
  19. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    So you are comparing the "dude" to those who fell in the desert in unbelief? Do you believe the dude was saved? If yes, then that is your answer to those who fell in the desert, God saved them all, belief or no belief. Interesting.....
     
    #19 steaver, May 6, 2015
  20. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    I take it from your examples of other passages that you believe they all were saved, belief or not.
     
    #20 steaver, May 6, 2015
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