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Which Laws

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Crabtownboy, Jul 1, 2015.

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  1. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    What laws in Leviticus should we abide by and which ones should we ignore?
     
    #1 Crabtownboy, Jul 1, 2015
  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I am curious as to the political motivation for asking such a question.
     
    #2 Revmitchell, Jul 1, 2015
  3. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    I thought it a theological question.

    Regardless, what is your answer to the question Rev?
     
    #3 Crabtownboy, Jul 1, 2015
  4. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I do not answer vague questions from folks like yourself. The reason is that you like to try to frame discussions to your liking and ask gotchya questions. Now if you would add some background to the reason you are asking such a question I might be enticed to answer it but lack of trust of you keeps me from giving any answers to vague questions.
     
    #4 Revmitchell, Jul 1, 2015
  5. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    CTB, for me to answer your question, I have to change your words “abide by” and “ignore”.

    We don’t abide by any of them and we also don’t ignore any of them. To abide by them means that we depend upon them for righteousness’ sake. Paul said, “For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law." He also said, “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes” and "Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian." and“You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."

    To ignore them means that we miss out on the blessing of reading them and understanding God’s plan from beginning to end. In particularly, I love Leviticus 14. A Christian should never ignore or disregard any of the Bible. Not the Law, not the begats, not any of it. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 - "All scripture is inspired of God and is beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work."

    However, with that being said, one has to understand the purpose of each portion of the scriptures to the New Testament Christian.

    Are some of the sins in the Law still sins? Yes. But NOT because they were in the Law.

    Are there some sins today that cannot be found in the Law? Yes. The Law was not an exhaustive list of “do’s and don’ts”. It was much more than that. Lesbianism and child abuse are two examples of sins today that cannot be found in the Law. If they are sins today, but they weren’t in the Law, how could they be sins then?

    What makes things sins today for the New Testament Christian are things that are opposite of the nature of God. Things that are sins today were sins LONG before the Law.

    Because LONG before there ever was a nation of Israel and LONG before the law was every born:

    • murder was a sin and it still is.
    • Adultery, lying, cruel treatment of others, homosexuality, and more were sins from the beginning and are still sins today.
    • It was a sin when Cain killed Abel.
    • It was a sin when Rueben has sex with his father's concubine.
    • It was a sin when the residents of Sodom and Gomorrah participated in homosexuality. That wasn’t their only sin, but God said that they were haughty and overfed and did not help feed the poor and did “detestable” things. That word is the same word that God uses to call homosexuality an abomination in Leviticus.
    • It was a sin when Abraham and Sarah lied to two different kings and led them to believe that they were not married.
    • It was a sin when Joseph's brothers allowed their anger at their father to torment them to a hatred of their brother.
    • All of this took place centuries BEFORE the law ever existed.
    How could they be sins when there was no law?

    Because of God's Holy Nature. We are to emulate Him. God does not murder, steal, lie, and covet. He cannot be cruel, unjust, unmerciful, or unloving. He will not turn his back on his people and seek out another people to love. God does not do detestable things. Ergo, we are to be just like Him as close as we can.
     
    #5 Scarlett O., Jul 1, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2015
  6. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    https://answersingenesis.org/christ...christians-follow-all-the-old-testament-laws/






    I suggest you do the same, CTB Or narrow your topic down to laws of concern to you.
     
    #6 carpro, Jul 1, 2015
  7. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    What laws in Leviticus should we abide by and which ones should we ignore?

    It's true!
     
    #7 InTheLight, Jul 1, 2015
  8. vooks

    vooks Active Member

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    None unless it is restated in the NT or is plain commonsensical.
    I know the next question is whether because homosexuality is sin in Leviticus, it automatically applies to us.
    The answer is yes and no.
    Christians preach against homosexuality not merely because of its mention in Leviticus but Pauline writings summarily condemn the same. Of course they get into semantics, Paul was against sex slaves bla de bla.

    When gay apologists make this fickle argument,I always ask them whether they sleep with their dogs. See, beastiality is NEVER mentioned nowhere in the NT yet nobody argues for beastiality
     
    #8 vooks, Jul 2, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2015
  9. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    Vooks, thanks for a calm, good, rational answer. I truly appreciate your reply.

    Actually my second question is not about homosexuality, not did I ever intend for it to be. Rather it is about how do we balance the entire OT with the NT. The laws of Leviticus seem a central place to begin. It seems to me there is a slippery slope with any answer.

    If we say none off the laws in Leviticus are to be adhered to, preached about, etc. then we have a slippery slope of ignoring those that are mentioned in one way or another in the NT.

    If we say we adhere to or preach only those that are also mentioned, in some say, in the NT, then we are on a slippery slope of ignoring much of the OT and to met that is a dangerous position.

    If we say we adhere or preach all the laws of Leviticus then we are on the slippery slope of legalism and also on preaching on some topics that, frankly, I doubt anyone, even the most conservative on this BB believe.

    Balancing the OT with the NT is one I have mulled over for a long time and I have not found a satisfactory answer.

    How do you view this topic?
     
    #9 Crabtownboy, Jul 2, 2015
  10. vooks

    vooks Active Member

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    There are several ways of approaching it and you definitely are not the first. I have read books, dissertations on it.

    The most interesting one is that behind every law there is a principle and a Christian ought to isolate the principle therein and live it out or apply it. Very intuitive. But there are 615 laws and it would take a PhD in theology to unravel all these. A good example is the
    1 Corinthians 9:8-10 (ESV)
    8 Do I say these things on human authority? Does not the Law say the same? 9 For it is written in the Law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain.” Is it for oxen that God is concerned? 10 Does he not certainly speak for our sake?

    Here Paul making a case for supporting ministers quotes Deuteronomy 25:4. This am certain the principle would in 20,000 years have been lost to humanity had he not expounded it.

    Back to your point.
    Few are honest to do admit difficulty. It is almost as if it is blasphemy. One needs to understand that limits of human understanding is not sin.
    Personally, I approach it on a case by case basis understanding no attempt is perfect.

    I realize that ALL God's laws are basically dos and don'ts; either you are asked to DO something or to refrain from something. So my question is should I do this or should I stop doing that?

    My PERSONAL approach, some questions I ponder.
    1. Is it ANYWHERE in the scriptures commanded to be done or not to be done?
    2. If YES, how often and where, NT/OT? And is it to a specific group or universal?
    3. If not, is there anything close to it commanded to be done or against, or would it violate a readily discernible principle?


    Applying this line of inquiry, how would you answer somebody who drinks human blood with a clean conscience?
    Note, she kills nobody, she meets up with friends and they draw small portions of blood,exchange them and toast to life
     
    #10 vooks, Jul 2, 2015
  11. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    Again, thanks for a good, calm, clear and rational answer.

    I agree. Also this law is very practical. A farmer does not want the ox eating the grain as he treads the grain.

    I believe that God welcomes such questions. I also believe that many folk are afraid to voice, to them-self or to others that they have questions. God understands that we do not understand. Sometimes we do receive answers and those answers may come from others, from books, from the Bible and at times from God.

    To me that is a wise approach and I agree our human approaches are never perfect even as we try to the best of our understanding and ability to be perfect.

    I realize that ALL God's laws are basically dos and don'ts; either you are asked to DO something or to refrain from something. So my question is should I do this or should I stop doing that?

    My PERSONAL approach, some questions I ponder.
    1. Is it ANYWHERE in the scriptures commanded to be done or not to be done?
    2. If YES, how often and where, NT/OT? And is it to a specific group or universal?
    3. If not, is there anything close to it commanded to be done or against, or would it violate a readily discernible principle?[/quote]

    Again I think that is a wise approach while knowing, at least for myself, that to give one law, or question as you will, priority over another is another slippery slope. But much of life is such and we strive as best we can.


    To me that is a hard question as we, if we take Leviticus seriously, would never eat or drink any blood. So much for rare steaks. And this takes us to the crux of the matter IMHO.

    I look forward to your reply.
     
    #11 Crabtownboy, Jul 2, 2015
  12. vooks

    vooks Active Member

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    Crabtownboy,
    There is a reason I posed the hypothetical blood question.
    Are you saying that had the bible not forbidden drinking blood, you would have no reason for dissuading our sister?
     
    #12 vooks, Jul 2, 2015
  13. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    Being who I am and where I grew up I would try to dissuade them.

    Perhaps I took your comment too literally.
     
    #13 Crabtownboy, Jul 2, 2015
  14. OnlyaSinner

    OnlyaSinner Well-Known Member
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    CTB, I think you're just fine with that steak. God knows, better than any butcher or scientist, that it's virtually impossible to drain 100% of the blood from an animal. His directive points to obedience, much more than to the incidental consumption of a few corpuscles. Modern slaughterhouses' blood draining is at least as efficient as that of the Hebrews in the wilderness, probably better, as animal blood is now a saleable product (often as organic fertilizer) rather than something to be buried.
    (And I suspect I've told you nothing that you did not already know.)
     
    #14 OnlyaSinner, Jul 2, 2015
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