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Featured Divorce and Remarriage before Salvation

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Zaac, Dec 31, 2015.

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  1. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

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    This is a carryover from the closed thread. I think this is worth a conversation.

    annsi asked:
    Divorce is a single sin. You repent of it just as you would any other sin.

    I think what you're asking about is the adultery part because the woman remarried. Personally, I believe that what God says about marriage and divorce applies whether you're lost or saved. This is one of the reasons I have told the young men I have taught in the past to be sure that you plan on spending your life with her.

    I do not believe you are freed from a marriage just because you divorce and both are unsaved. If a spouse is still alive, it's still Biblical adultery.

    Just as I would counsel two unsaved people who were fornicating, who then got saved that they must stop their illicit relationship, I'd say the same thing to a person who got divorced while unsaved, but then was saved and in a relationship with someone else. The unBiblical relationship would need to cease.

    If her leaving the first husband and marrying a second while still unsaved was sinful, the second marriage while unsaved is also sinful because she's still married to the first in God's eyes. And both people in the second marriage getting saved still don't undo the first marriage.
     
    #1 Zaac, Dec 31, 2015
  2. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member
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    I, for one, don't understand how we can hold actions prior to salvation against a Christian.

    Obviously illegal activities and their civil recourses notwithstanding, I simply don't understand how we, in the Church, can hold actions prior to salvation against someone.
     
    #2 preachinjesus, Dec 31, 2015
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  3. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    But she cannot marry her first husband and she has been married for numerous years to her second husband. I don't see how divorcing the second husband is the right thing to do. I don't see where Jesus spoke to the woman at the well and told her to go back to her first husband - because the other husbands were legitimate husbands as well. Let's add kids to the second marriage. Is it right for them to break up the marriage and now bring the kids up in a broken home because she should never have been abandoned by her first husband and she should be held to a standard for believers when she had not been a believer?

    So basically, if a divorced and remarried person is going to be saved, do we give them the warning that if they are to be saved, they must divorce their spouse?
     
    #3 annsni, Dec 31, 2015
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  4. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

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    We don't. But the consequences of those actions don't just go away. If the person had kids with that person, the kids don't just go away because they got divorced and saved.

    I think you may be doing what we are prone to do in these type situations and address it based on feelings. What does the word of God say? When HE speaks of divorce, is that only intended for the saved or is it applicable to ALL marriage?
     
    #4 Zaac, Dec 31, 2015
  5. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

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    [Oops. My faux pas. Corrected per Scarlett].

    Man and a woman are married. Both are unbelievers. They have kids and get divorced because he decides he's gay. While in the gay relationship, he and his partner get saved. Should they remain in the gay relationship? Or should he be reconciled to his wife?

    Huh? You worded that as though them being saved is dependent upon them divorcing the second spouse. It is not.
     
    #5 Zaac, Dec 31, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2015
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  6. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Is it not? Now once they are saved, we need to tell them the only way they can be obedient to God is for them to divorce each other? To break up their home, split up the kids and figure out who gets the kids for Christmas?
     
    #6 annsni, Dec 31, 2015
  7. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

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    No. Everything doesn't have to magically be fixed for a person to be saved. A person can still be mired in sin after being saved. But through the sanctification process of people maturing and growing in Christ, more repentance and correction should be taking place in a Christian's life so that he looks more like Christ and less like the old man over time.

    For some, it's immediate. For others, it takes time and God uses it to His glory.

    Strictly speaking from a BIBLICAL perspective, they were never married if the original spouse is still alive and the divorce wasn't because of one of the exceptions that Scripture mentions. Because Biblically, they are to be reconciled to the original spouse.

    Ugly, isn't it? But that's what happens with sin. It throws everything into disorder. That again is why I tell the young folks, be very sure that he or she is the one with whom you're planning on spending the rest of your life.
     
    #7 Zaac, Dec 31, 2015
  8. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    I don't think there is a lot of point in debating the divorce question because everyone has his or her own view and won't change it. Yet, as I am not being always averse to useless arguments....

    Once married-- always married... unless you divorce your spouse for porneia-- immorality-- which means what? Fornication?-- yes. Adultery-- yes; that falls under fornication*. Lust for another?-- that's indefinite; Jesus said a man who looks at a woman with lust in his eye [it's obvious to others] has already committed adultery "in his heart." Is that better or worse than in a physical reality?-- but more important, does it 'count'? How about looking at pornography? By the most literal meaning,-- yes; after all, the word is derived from that Greek word used in scripture. How about reading novels that include episodes of fornication? I don't know.

    And then, polygamy is not forbidden in scripture, but it does disqualify a man from the office of overseer or deacon. Is it wrong to divorce one of 2 wives to be eligible? Then what about forced marriages, especially with children?

    Spousal abandonment? It's in there, in I Corinthians 7, where you're "free" from such a bond. So then, can you become such an intolerable nag that your spouse abandons you and be in conformity with this?

    Sometimes the biggest question to me about this is: is it true a person may divorce his or her spouse and not be allowed [in God's eyes] to marry again, but if a person murders his or her spouse, such person is eligible through the same eyes to marry again? If you believe there is NO valid marriage after divorce, but that murder is forgivable, then how do you see the answer otherwise but "yes?"

    * The only time I recall a contention that adultery does not qualify as a type of fornication here was when I heard a Church of Christ minister say that. He said you cannot divorce a spouse for adultery after marriage, but you can divorce if you discover your spouse committed fornication before your marriage, as that, and not adultery, is what is meant by fornication.Sounds like garbage to me.
     
    #8 Alcott, Dec 31, 2015
  9. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    Wrong woman. Jesus didn't tell the woman at the well anything to do about her marital status. He didn't tell her to marry the one she was with or to go back and marry the first one. He was more interested in her understanding about the Holy Spirit (Living Water) and introducing Himself as Messiah.

    If a spouse committed adultery under the law, they were to be put to death - physical death. Death frees a person to marry again if they choose.

    The Apostle Paul was angry at the church in Corinth for being seemingly proud and arrogant that one of their members was having sex with his step-mother. His answer? Remove the man from the assembly. That's spiritual death to another person.

    I believe first and foremost marital reconciliation should be sought, but I believe that when a spouse has cheated and cheated and will cheat again, divorce is warranted. And the offending spouse is spiritually dead. The innocent spouse can remarry.
     
    #9 Scarlett O., Dec 31, 2015
  10. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    John 4:19- Jesus recognizes the Samaritan Women has been married 5 times. This doesn't justify her behavior, she obviously a sinner...she is currently living with a man who is not her husband. Jesus acknowledges these 5 has previous Husbands. Once someone enters into a marriage by sin or not, it should be treated a marriage. To divorce your 2nd, 3rd....whatever the number, spouse would be to sin further. Would you really tell a young couple(one or both previously married), with young kids in your church to divorce? You now have encouraged a fatherless home and I believe caused them to sin by divorcing for unbiblical grounds. I believe it is always better to stay in the marriage you are in.

    Sent from my LGLS990 using Tapatalk
     
    #10 McCree79, Dec 31, 2015
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  11. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

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    Thought about that post while I was picking up my black eyed peas. Thanks Scarlett.Thumbsup

    I've said this before and I'll say it again. When it comes to what God HAS spoken to, what we think, feel or believe is irrelevant.

    ALL of the unsaved are spiritually dead, so He wasn't talking about a spiritual death, but a physical death. If the spouse is alive, he cannot remarry without being guilty of adultery. And that's GOD's word, not feelings.
     
    #11 Zaac, Dec 31, 2015
  12. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    I LOVE black-eyed peas. [​IMG]


    I'm actually not basing it on my feelings. It's not explicit in God's Word, but I do know that God would not want a couple where one as a previous spouse who cheated chronically to divorce. Two divorces don't make things right.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
     
    #12 Scarlett O., Dec 31, 2015
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  13. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    I would disagree since Jesus confirmed that the woman had 5 husbands. In order to have a husband, one must be married. He confirmed that the second husband was a legitimate husband, the third was a legitimate husband, the fourth was a legitimate husband and the fifth as well - but this man she was with was not her husband, probably because she had not married him.
     
    #13 annsni, Dec 31, 2015
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  14. Kevin

    Kevin Active Member

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    I have not heard this lately, but many years ago when I was a teen one of the things we were being told was, just having sex with someone was the same as a marriage in God's eyes. The two shall become one.

    If I were to get married again, I would assume there would be a good chance that divorce could be an issue.

    My understanding is our life before Salvation is not the same as after our conversion, and I would consider a divorce pre-salvation as OK, but if it was afterwards, then there would need to be some talking about what happened in their marriage that led to divorce.

    If an atheist got married at 20, and divorced at 25 for no other reason than they didn't like the person anymore. Now 20 years later he still hasn't re-married, but becomes a True Christian. He meets a nice Christian woman and wants to get married in a Christian marriage, why not.

    He didn't even believe there was a God during the first marriage, so how can he be held accountable for these actions.

    Two Christians getting divorced just because they can't get along with each other, those people I would say they are the ones that should not be getting re-married.

    Ultimately it is an issue that needs to be dealt with, but in a private setting with maybe their Pastor, or ?
     
    #14 Kevin, Dec 31, 2015
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  15. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    He spoke volumes about her marital status.

    The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband: For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.
    ​
    The implications are loud and clear.
     
    #15 Aaron, Jan 1, 2016
  16. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    I never said that Jesus didn't speak to her marital status. Please re-read.

    I said he didn't tell her how to "fix" the problem by telling her which man to marry and live with. That was not his purpose in talking to her. Yes, he had to get her to recognize personal sin, but he was all about bringing Truth to her.

    Remarrying a former spouse after being married to or living with another spouse was against the Law for those people. She legally couldn't go back and marry one of the other husbands. According to Deuteronomy 24, divorcing a second spouse to re-marry a first spouse was defilement - even if the second spouse was dead.

    While we are not under the Law, I think the spirit is the same. Two [or more] divorces and a remarriage to the initial spouse only compounds the sin. Repent and commit to God to give the marriage you to him and live out the marriage you are in with holiness.
     
    #16 Scarlett O., Jan 1, 2016
  17. Bro. James

    Bro. James Well-Known Member
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    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    What part of "it is finished" do we not understand?

    "The one without sin cast the first stone" applies.

    Legalism is alive and well in the wonderful world of Christendom. Do we need to revise our canon law?

    The holy see offers an annulment for those who can afford it.

    "Whatever is not of Faith is sin." Now what?

    Jesus paid it all--removing our sins from as far as East is from West--never to be recalled--as if they had never been committed.

    Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

    Bro. James
     
    #17 Bro. James, Jan 1, 2016
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  18. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    But the implication of which man she may not live with is loud and clear.
     
    #18 Aaron, Jan 1, 2016
  19. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    *sigh*

    Here we go again. It isn't legalism to tell an adulterer to stop living in adultery, and how to do so. I'll bet you'd want folks to stop stealing from you—LEGALIST! *rolls eyes*
     
    #19 Aaron, Jan 1, 2016
  20. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    I don't recall Jesus telling her who to live with at all. Can you show me the verse?
     
    #20 annsni, Jan 1, 2016
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