1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Is Fundamentalism Merely a Belief in “The Five Fundamentals”?

Discussion in 'Fundamental Baptist Forum' started by Jordan Kurecki, Dec 24, 2016.

  1. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    11,851
    Likes Received:
    1,084
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Not an especially edifying discussion on that thread.

    Some reject the term Fundamentalist because of the non-fundamental accretions that have attached themselves to some of its its practitioners. Others gladly accept the appellation because it means they accept the fundamentals of the faith.

    Me, I'm either a neo-fundamentalist or a classical evangelical. Heck, maybe even neo-orthodox with an emphasis upon the sovereignty of God and his absolute "otherness," the sinfulness of mankind and primacy of the Word of God and the word of God.
     
  2. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2000
    Messages:
    15,371
    Likes Received:
    2,405
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I think not. I know you too well to put you in the same category as Karl Barth.
     
  3. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    11,851
    Likes Received:
    1,084
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Thanks for the vote of confidence. No, I'm not quite Barthian, but there are worse places to be in what passes for American Christianity these days, which often seems to be either bound to salvific ritualism, treats God as a cosmic ATM or wants to enlist the Everlasting for political purposes (and this is true on the right and left). Barth at least recognized that God is God and we are not. Sad that this elementary observation seems to be out of fashion.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2013
    Messages:
    2,783
    Likes Received:
    158
    Faith:
    Baptist
  5. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2013
    Messages:
    2,783
    Likes Received:
    158
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes, I think that thread blew up because a number of people don't understand the phrase "from what I've seen"

    Seems like Jerome might be one, too. Seems
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Think that Barth was scared though to take his theology to its logical end, that being Christian Univerasalism!
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Think that it blew up due to some calling out calvinists/Reformed as not being brothers in Christ!
     
  8. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    9,796
    Likes Received:
    700
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Read it again:

    http://www.baptistboard.com/threads/church-standards.100964

    There was NO mention of 'calvinists/Reformed' just a descent into namecalling. One who wouldn't buy into his 'capitalization-based' personal definition of Fundamentalism was attacked as a "church hopper" among other nonsense.

    Words mean things. Can we get back to an objective discussion of the OP?
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Sounds good to me.
     
  10. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    9,796
    Likes Received:
    700
    Faith:
    Baptist
    https://books.google.com/books?id=p_d6wT7lTw8C&pg=PA96

    "Stewart Cole (1931) carelessly made the assertion that the Niagara Conference adopted the five fundamentals, but the only statement produced by the Niagara group was issued in 1878 and contained fourteen points. The Niagara Conference adopted no five-point statement. See Ernest R. Sandeen, "Toward a Historical Interpretation of the Origins of Fundamentalism," Church History (March 1967): 79. Fundamentalist historian George W. Dollar noted that serious injustice has been done to Fundamentalism by associating the movement only with the "Famous Five" and ignoring other important articles of faith."
     
  11. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    9,796
    Likes Received:
    700
    Faith:
    Baptist
    https://books.google.com/books?id=nTsq_ktTQkcC&pg=PA26

    "The so-called 'five points of fundamentalism' did not provide a blueprint for fundamentalists as many scholars have assumed....Norman Furniss, who provided the second major historical account of the fundamentalist movement, regarded the five points as the 'sine qua non of fundamentalism' (1954: 13). Sandeen, however, correctly perceived that fundamentalists had no preference for five over above another number of articles (1970b: pp. xiv-xv)."
     
  12. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,490
    Faith:
    Baptist
    There were originally 90 essays published as "The Fundamentals" by BIOLA in 1909-1915.

    Those original essays were edited by A.C. Dixon, then later by R.A. Torrey.

    The original essays were as much polemical (attacking false doctrine) as apologetic (defending true doctrine).

    Some of the false doctrine attacked included Higher Criticism, Modern Philosophy, Modern Criticism, Modern Science, Evolution, Deutero-Isaiah, the Late Date of Daniel, Millennial Dawn (Jehovah's Witnesses), Mormonism, Christian Science, Modern Spiritualism, Romanism, Socialism and several others I can probably no longer remember.

    But the original essays also emphasized a lot of things as being fundamental to the faith that we usually don't consider to be fundamentals. These would include Books necessary for every preacher's library, Prayer, Missions, the Sunday School, Pastoral and Personal Evangelism, Consecration, Satan and His Kingdom, Money, the Importance of Preaching, Daily Bible Reading/Study, and many others.

    But what must be remembered is that the fundamentals did not fall from heaven complete, but rather developed over several decades centering on the Niagara Bible Conferences and its successors. At the 1883 Conference it was agreed that:

    1. All prophecies are to be taken literally.
    2. The second coming is imminent.
    3. Romanism is the Babylon of Revelation.
    4. Prophecy must be given a central place in theology, evangelism, missions, and personal living.

    (A History of Fundamentalism in America, Dr. George W. Dollar, BJU Press, 1973, page 41)

    Personal note: I put great stock in Dr. Dollar's writings as being historically accurate even though he may not have agreed with all that transpired at the Conferences. I had the privilege of sitting under his teaching and tutelage while he was Chairman of the Department of Church History and later Dean of Faculty at Central Seminary.

    After seminary we remained friends until the time of his death from cancer at age 89. He was one of the most brilliant men I have ever known.

    To be continued.
     
    #52 TCassidy, Jan 7, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2017
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    TheO{ wonders if Fundamentalism is sam as holding to the Fundamentals of the Faith, I would say tha wemust also include the seperating mindset, as both themand Evangelicals agree pretty much on essentials of theFaith, but not in how to apply that into daily living sdame way!

    Fundamentalists to melike Reformed and calvinists, as Reformed practice and honor whole calvinistic theology, while calvinistic Bpatist mainly agree with Sotierology viewpoints/5 points of Grace!
     
  14. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,490
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Continued:

    At the 1886 conference the original affirmations were expanded to include:

    1. A strict literalism in interpreting the bible, particularly its prophecies.
    2. An all-consuming interest in the coming of the Lord and His Kingdom to be established on the earth.
    3. A clear-cut picture of the enemies of prophecy in schools of spiritualizers, postmillenarians, and figurative interpreters.
    4. A continuing exposure of Romanism as the great enemy of the Truth and the true Church, setting the stage for the coming of Babylon the Great.
    5. The central place of Israel in the future Kingdom.
    6. Increasing wickedness, with all the world heading toward the period of the Great Tribulation.
    7. Judgments and rewards awaiting Christians.
    8. A special study of the activities of Antichrist.
    9. The peculiar delusions of the present day.
    10. A constant rejection of men's opinions in all matters of truth and practice and constant reliance on plain scriptures.

    On the last day of the conference these new affirmations were passed as a resolution in the following form:

    1. Absolute authority of the word on doctrine and duty.
    2. The literal fulfillment of the prophetic words about His second coming.
    3. The second coming is "everywhere in the Scriptures represented as imminent and may occur at any moment."
    4. The world will not be converted nor become a reign of peace before His coming but "only at and by His coming in power and glory will the prophecies concerning the progress of evil and the development of Antichrist, the times of the Gentiles, the ingathering of Israel, the resurrection of the dead in Christ, and the transfiguration of His living saints, receive their fulfillment, and the period of millennial blessedness its inauguration."
    5. The duty of the church is to watch and pray, work and wait, to go into all the world and preach the Gospel to every creature and thus hasten the coming of the day of the Lord.
    6. "The doctrine of our Lord's premillennial advent, instead of paralyzing evangelistic and missionary effort, is one of the mightiest incentives to earnestness in preaching the Gospel to every creature until He comes.

    (A History of Fundamentalism in America, Dr. George W. Dollar, BJU Press, 1973, page 44-46)

    These Affirmations continued to be expanded year after year finally resulting in the 90 essays published by BIOLA.

    So it is not improper to list 5 or 7 fundamentals as long as it is kept in mind that "The Fundamentals" did not limit the fundamentals of the faith to 5 or 7 or even 14.

    And not all Christians who are "fundamental" would accept all of that which is expounded upon in "The Fundamentals."

    More to come. :)
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  15. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    9,796
    Likes Received:
    700
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Regarding the list of five that Stewart Cole erroneously credited to the Niagara Prophecy Conference and that HankD cited here earlier:

    https://books.google.com/books?id=JChnDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA308

    "The 'five points of fundamentalism,' in the classic form they were given in Stewart Cole's history (see above, Chapter XIII, note 30) seem to appear first in the Christian Century XL (August 16, 1923), p. 1040. The classic five points, then, appear to have been formulated by liberals, while fundamentalists' own lists varied in number and content."
     
  16. Happy

    Happy Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2017
    Messages:
    1,273
    Likes Received:
    81
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Fundamental is simply the CORE BASICS of "something".

    Fundamentalist is simply a person who BELIEVES the CORE BASICS of "something" and ADAPTS (via actions) to the CORE BASIC beliefs of "something".

    For the purpose of this thread ~ the "something" is the Scripture IN the Bible.

    More specifically for the purpose of this thread ~ the CORE belief has been presented as a QUESTION, a CHALLENGE to those WHO have " presented " the CORE Basics of Scripture IS LIMITED to FIVE highlighted points.

    Personally I agree with the Challenge in the OP. BECAUSE, I find presenting such a topic as "the Find Fundamentals"; is misleading; BECAUSE they ARE Limiting.

    1. The Deity of our Lord Jesus Christ (John 1:1; John 20:28; Hebrews 1:8-9).

    2. The Virgin Birth (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23; Luke 1:27).

    3. The Blood Atonement (Acts 20:28; Romans 3:25, 5:9; Ephesians 1:7; Hebrews 9:12-14).

    4. The Bodily Resurrection (Luke 24:36-46; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, 15:14-15).

    5. The inerrancy of the scriptures themselves (Psalms 12:6-7; Romans 15:4; 2 Timothy 3:16-17; 2 Peter 1:20). [1]


    The restored soul?
    The quickened spirit?
    The willingness to Drink from the same cup of indignation as Jesus did?
     
  17. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Of course.

    It could go on and on and on...

    The Five Fundamentals are the prologue.

    HankD
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  18. Mike Stidham

    Mike Stidham Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2005
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    9
    Faith:
    Baptist
    And yet I was in Lifeway tonight looking for an Acts commentary and found a study curriculum on "The Apostle's Creed"...
     
  19. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Fake apostles?

    HankD
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    AND jesus full Humanity!
     
Loading...