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Apocrypha

Discussion in 'Fundamental Baptist Forum' started by The Scribe, Jan 22, 2008.

  1. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    In response to another query from another source Bro Cloud replied that excerpts are permitted if fullk credit is given.

    Legally, short excerpts (traditionally defined on the Baptist Board as a paragraph) may be quoted if full credit (footnote style) is given.

    Since Bro Cloud is not consistent in his replies to queries, I think we are safe to go with the legal requirements.
     
  2. grace56

    grace56 New Member

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    The Old Testament took over one thousand years to compile, and the list of inspired books grew continuously as God’s word was revealed. This gradual accretion indicated that the Jewish people felt no need for a static canon but remained open to further revelation. They divided their sacred writings into three parts: the law, the prophets, and the writings (which were canonized in that order). By the time of Christ, the law—and most likely the prophets—was set in number, but the writings were not yet closed.

    In Jesus’ time, the Samaritans and Sadducees accepted the law but rejected the prophets and writings. The Pharisees accepted all three. Other Jews used a Greek version (the Septuagint) that included the seven disputed books, known as the deuterocanonicals. Still other Jews used a version of the canon that is reflected in the Septaguint and included versions of the seven books in question in their original Hebrew or Aramaic.

    When the Christians claimed that they had written new scriptures, Jews from a rabbinical school in Javneh met around year 80 and, among other things, discussed the canon. They did not include the New Testament nor the seven Old Testament works and portions of Daniel and Esther. This still did not settle the Pharisee canon, since not all Jews agreed with or even knew about the decision at Javneh. Rabbis continued to debate it into the second and third centuries. Even today, the Ethiopian Jews use the same Old Testament as the early Christians.

    Luther had a tendency to grade the Bible according to his preferences. In his writings on the New Testament, he noted that the books of Hebrews, James, Jude, and Revelation were inferior to the rest. Luther wanted thes NT books thrown out of the Bible thank goodness he was at least overruled on them.

    I think we are missing some great books of the OT that should be in there.

    Grace56
     
  3. jesusrules3

    jesusrules3 New Member

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    well,if God wanted them to be in there,they would be
     
  4. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Concerning Apocrypha:

    Grace56: // I think we are missing some great books
    of the OT that should be in there. //

    Jesusrules3: // well,if God wanted them to be in there,they would be //

    Amen, Jesusrules3 -- you are so RIGHT ON! :thumbs:

    They are in my Favorite Bible:

    Sir 39:1 (KJV1611 Edition):
    But hee that giueth his minde to the Law
    of the most high, and is occupied
    in the meditation thereof, wil seeke out
    the wisdome of all the ancient,
    and be occupied in prophecies.

    'Sir' stands for "The Wisdome of Iefus the fonne of Sirach"
    also called 'Ecclesiasticus'

    -Ed, occupied in prophecies, Edwards
     
    #44 Ed Edwards, Jan 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 25, 2008
  5. Linda64

    Linda64 New Member

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    Jesus never quoted the Apocrypha...however He states what the canon is in Luke 24:44:

    Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

    He also says in John 5:39:

    John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

    The Scriptures are the Old Testament. The Apocrypha does not testify of Christ, therefore, it was not considered to be inspired by God. It was put in the 1611 KJV for historical information only.
     
  6. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    So we can through out historical books?
    Say Esther, Ruth...

    Since they are not of Moses, Prophets, or Psalms?
     
  7. grace56

    grace56 New Member

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    How many books are in the Bible? Catholics answer the question differently than do Christians whose roots lie in the Protestant Reformation. The history behind this simple question is surprisingly complex, revolving around the inclusion in the canon of Scripture of seven books (Tobit, Wisdom, Sirach, Baruch, Judith, 1 and 2 Maccabees, and parts of Esther and Daniel). The beginnings of the story can be traced to the pre-Christian era, to the nature of ancient Jewish worship and the alterations forced upon it by the Babylonian exile, as God prepared for that perfect moment which he chose to enter into history through the Incarnation and establish his living Body, the Church. It is a history that Martin Luther and his successors never really understood but which is pivotal to understanding why the question still separates Christians.

    http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1998/9806fea2.asp

    Edited by moderator to properly source material
     
    #47 grace56, Jan 26, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2008
  8. grace56

    grace56 New Member

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    Ed, a man called Martin Luther took them out.
     
  9. standingfirminChrist

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    Martin Luther took them out? Who put them in?

    Wycliffe lived two centuries before Luther and Wycliffe did not have them.

    From where did they originate?
     
  10. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    That being the case why were they added back to the KJV?

    I was pretty sure that Luther, like the KJV, had them between the Testaments. I think Luther had a note about they not having equal authority, something the KJV did not choose to add.
     
    #50 NaasPreacher (C4K), Jan 26, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2008
  11. standingfirminChrist

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    From what I read in the history of the Apocrypha, they were written circa. 250AD.

    In 1546, the Council of Trent declared them to be canonical.

    Several historical and geographical inaccuracies and anachronisms can be found throughout the Apocryphal books.

    In 1643, the Westminster Confession declared the Apocrypha not to be canonical.
     
  12. grace56

    grace56 New Member

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    I would study a bit more, these days with the internet there is no reason not to.
     
  13. standingfirminChrist

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    The internet has all kinds of kooks claiming their gospel is right.
     
  14. grace56

    grace56 New Member

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    That is so true :laugh: .

    Anyway if you really look into the Council of Trent I think you'll see they were just reconfirming that these books should be in the Bible they didn't add them at this time. They were just responding to the Refermation and the taking out of these books.

    Grace56
     
  15. cowboymatt

    cowboymatt New Member

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    The Apocryphal books were not composed in AD 250. Virtually every credible scholar places most of them at least 100 years prior to the NT (only 4 Maccabees and 2 Esdras are exceptions, neither of which is in every list of the Apocryphal books). They mostly come from the Jews in exile in Babylon and those who remained in Palestine. They contain important information regarding the socio-politico-religious "background" of the New Testament. While I agree that they weren't inspired, they were included in many of the Greek codices of the Bible and in the Vulgate. The KJV included them because they were working from documents that included them.

    Some of the confusion over the dating of the Apocrypha is confusion over what books are in the Apocrypha. Those books normally included are limited only to the following: Tobit, Judith, Additions to Esther, Wisdom of Solomon, Ecclesiasticus, Baurch, The Letter of Jeremiah, The Prayer of Azariah and the Song of the Three Jews, Susanna, Bel and the Dragon, 1 Maccabees, and 2 Maccabees. The following books are in Slavonic Bibles but not that of the RCC: 1 Esdras, Prayer of Manasseh, Psalm 151, and 3 Maccabees. The following is in Slavonic Bibles and in an appendix to the Vulgate: 2 Esdras. Lastly, the following is only in an appendix to the Greek Bible: 4 Maccabees.

    Sometimes other books are included, though they shouldn't be. Any not on the above list should be called the Pseudepigrapha. Many books in the Pseudepigrapha do in fact date before, during, and after the NT period.
     
    #55 cowboymatt, Jan 26, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2008
  16. standingfirminChrist

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    Matt,

    I was busy typing and typed AD when it should have been BC.

    My Open Bible by Nelson Publishers says 250 BC as well.
     
  17. cowboymatt

    cowboymatt New Member

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    Very good. Part of 2 Esdras weren't likely written until the third century AD, which is where I thought you got your date! :)
     
  18. jesusrules3

    jesusrules3 New Member

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    But God allowed them to be in the Canon,so they must be inspired
     
  19. jesusrules3

    jesusrules3 New Member

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    i dont think God would have let that happen if they werent inspired
     
  20. bbas 64

    bbas 64 New Member

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    Good day, Grace

    Really ummmm...

    What version (year) of Luther's translation did not have them?

    In Him,

    Bill
     
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